Battery charge1-2

[Dan H]

Dan,

No, do not use a gel cell and a wet cell together, in any form, unless you for some reason have two separate chargers. You see, the top end voltage for a wet cell is different than that for a gel cell, and you r charger will try to obtain the highest voltage it can, based on it's design. This works so-so for wet cells, and not at all for gel cells.
What charger do you have, and is it a three stage charger? More than probably it is a ferro-resonant charger. If three stage, then the top voltage could be set for the gel cell, and then the wet cell would be undercharged. Or it could be set for the wet cell, and the gel cell will likely short out or be destroyed..possibly explode even (one of the warnings mentions this).
If the charger is a ferro-resonant charger, then only the wet cell will be mildly happy, as it takes a long time to get there with this charger, but it will eventually charge up to 14.6v or so, which exceeds the Do-Not-Exceed rating of the gel cells.

It's best to have a separate starting battery (typical truck starting battery..non-marine, and non-deep cycle) which is used ONLY for that purpose. Then add in a house bank..or two, as I have done. That bank should be sized to the boat, the load, the space available, charging source and type etc. This case would be a deep discharge cell..probably a group 27. They run around $45 every weekend at K-Mart. Realize that there is nothing magic about the "Marine" title when it comes to batteries..all you want are deep discharge cells. Separate these two banks with the 1-2-both-off switch, and then install a West Marine or Heart Interface Charge Combiner ahead of the two batteries, so that the charge is applied to both batteries until they become charged, then the combiner disconnects the two batteries from the charging buss. This runs around $140, and is the center of any charging system. All charge sources will be led through this device, be they solar, wind, thermalnuclear or "IT".

Cheers! and wondering how many figure out "IT"?

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~Lake Superior~~~

My CD25 came with two batteries. The original water filled type is currently installed. The former owner purchased a gel battery but did not install it. I would like to use both. The wiring is only set up for the one. Can I use two different types together? What wiring modifications are required to add the additional battery? If anyone can point me to "factory wiring scheme", I am thinking that might be best.

Larry,

My charger is the alternator on the 1977 Johnson 9.9 outboard. Let me recap what I think you are saying. There is one set of cables coming from the motor. I lead those to the Charge Combiner unit, I then lead from the charge combiner to the Off-1-2-Both switch and on from there. When I want to start the motor, I set the switch to "1" because that is where the starter battery is. Once the engine is started, I flip the switch to "Both". The charge combiner has the intelligence to know what battery to charge and how much to charge it without blowing up me and the batteries. ?? I think I may have the switch and the combiner positions reversed??
This may explain why both my cars have electrical problems.



djhhan@aol.com

[Mike Buppert]

Larry,
How did you CURE electrolysis problems. My CD25 has no shore power. I would like to add it to keep batteries charged for infinite bilge pump power as you say, but I hesitate to add potential problems (One wire hook it up two wires screw it up).

Mike Buppert
CD25 "Lucille"
Toms River Yacht Club
Barnegat Bay, NJ

So many questions...
The stock CD system is a good average way to charge the batteries and keep them healthy for a few years anyway, depending on use, size, load, and care. They rarely will actually get topped off as is required by the manuf. however, and this is one thing that grows dendrites between plates, and kills them eventually.
Combining batteries for a period of time, while motoring is fine Warren, but the problem happens when you get to your anchorage, toss out the hook, grab the beer and wife, and head to the friends boat next over in the bay. Damn, forgot to switch over to my even or is it odd today..battery? Too complicated for most people to keep on top of. Batteries that are combined have a voltage equal to the lowest voltage of those being combined. If one is dead..soon will the other be so.
So time has taught that a separated system is best, but this is not written in stone either.

What I have found to work exceedingly well is a Charge Combiner. This device takes your charging source, connects it up to the batteries..which the combiner parallels while being charged. As soon as the batteries are topped up to the individual preset voltages, the respective relay opens up, stopping the charging. This eliminates having to worry about putting the battery switch in the "Both" position, then remembering to return it to the house bank.

In answer to Mike and Dave's plugging in question, I do always plug in. I cured our electrolysis problems early on, and have none now at all. I prefer to have the added security of an infinite power supply for my bilge pump, should it take off sometime while I am gone. Taking batteries home may be a distasteful option when you are using a group 25 at 50-60 lbs., but with T105's (6v golf cart batt) at 135lbs for the pair, or a L116 at about 90 lbs, this is not a wise thing to try.
It also adds to the hassle factor of sailing, which one tries valiantly to minimize, or you find yourself not going as often etc.etc.

So with a 3 stage charging system, you could stop shlepping batteries back and forth Dave..leave her plugged in for the week, get a proper charge on the cells, regularly, and have plenty of power for the bilge pump should those polyestermites eat through your hull sometime.. ;^)))!

I hope I am not boring folks with my preaching about batteries. It is a complicated subject, with many options..some bad. I have just come through this forest myself, and learned a few things on the way.


Hey, was 5deg. up in the boating country a few days ago! Yippee..swimming weather! hee..

Larry

I guess it depends on how the wiring is set up, but in a "factory" wiring on a CD27, if the engine is running with the battery selector on 1, does the alternator charge both batteries or only the battery selected? Thanks
Hud

buppert@csionline.net

[Larry DeMers]

Dan,

Well..almost and not quite. Try this:
Wire from:
The alternator to the input of the charge combiner. This will be a positive or red cable.
From Output 1 on the charge combiner, go to battery 1's positive post.
From Output 2 of the charge combiner to battery 2's positive post.

This completes the charge paths. There is always a load on the alternator, so switching loads on or off while running will not destroy your diodes in the alternator. But charge with the '1-2-off-both' switch in the 1 or 2 position. The 'both' position will defeat the charge combiner by putting the positive on each battery in parallel with each other, shorting out the combiners outputs. Nothing will blow, but the combiner will not be able to see the two individual banks, and so the voltage sensing will be fubar'd up.

Then...wire battery 1 (+) to the '1-2-off-both' switch's terminal for position 1.
Wire battery 2's (+) terminal to the switches position 2 terminal.

Now, when you need to start, switch to battery 1 (assuming it is the start battery). For house power, switch to battery 2. You have the redundancy of being able to use either battery to start or to run your radio or lights (although the start batt. should be used for that only under normal circumstances). The alternator sees a constant minimum load through the charge combiner, keeping the batteries topped up whenever you do run the engine.

The difference between this method and the standard factory method is that the factory system steered the charge to the battery of interest. This system charges both cells continuously, while letting you choose which bank to use for what.

How does that sound to you?

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

My charger is the alternator on the 1977 Johnson 9.9 outboard. Let me recap what I think you are saying. There is one set of cables coming from the motor. I lead those to the Charge Combiner unit, I then lead from the charge combiner to the Off-1-2-Both switch and on from there. When I want to start the motor, I set the switch to "1" because that is where the starter battery is. Once the engine is started, I flip the switch to "Both". The charge combiner has the intelligence to know what battery to charge and how much to charge it without blowing up me and the batteries. ?? I think I may have the switch and the combiner positions reversed??
This may explain why both my cars have electrical problems.

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

Mike,

Well, I noted that my Perry nut was totally eaten away a year after we took delivery of our boat, so I did a bit of rewiring with removing the dock green wire to the engine connection unless we are charging from the dock power. This is done through our inverter/charger. I also moved to a different dock where there was newer wiring in the finger pier, and my plug-in tester said that the wiring was correct. The price was the same, the scene from the cockpit was far better, and it was also quieter along with being less leaky.
On our boat this was the cause or source of the electrolysis, and it must have been pretty aggressive, as now I found the brass tailpiece in my galley sink had been all but eaten away (dangerous situation of the wet kind). Measurments with a microvoltmeter showed basicly less than 10 mv between the prop shaft and green earth ground. I had 60+ VAC at one time..and we got small shocks when touching shrouds and water or wet docks sometimes.

Somewhere in there, I think I answered your question..

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Larry,
How did you CURE electrolysis problems. My CD25 has no shore power. I would like to add it to keep batteries charged for infinite bilge pump power as you say, but I hesitate to add potential problems (One wire hook it up two wires screw it up).

Mike Buppert
CD25 "Lucille"
Toms River Yacht Club
Barnegat Bay, NJ

So many questions...
The stock CD system is a good average way to charge the batteries and keep them healthy for a few years anyway, depending on use, size, load, and care. They rarely will actually get topped off as is required by the manuf. however, and this is one thing that grows dendrites between plates, and kills them eventually.
Combining batteries for a period of time, while motoring is fine Warren, but the problem happens when you get to your anchorage, toss out the hook, grab the beer and wife, and head to the friends boat next over in the bay. Damn, forgot to switch over to my even or is it odd today..battery? Too complicated for most people to keep on top of. Batteries that are combined have a voltage equal to the lowest voltage of those being combined. If one is dead..soon will the other be so.
So time has taught that a separated system is best, but this is not written in stone either.

What I have found to work exceedingly well is a Charge Combiner. This device takes your charging source, connects it up to the batteries..which the combiner parallels while being charged. As soon as the batteries are topped up to the individual preset voltages, the respective relay opens up, stopping the charging. This eliminates having to worry about putting the battery switch in the "Both" position, then remembering to return it to the house bank.

In answer to Mike and Dave's plugging in question, I do always plug in. I cured our electrolysis problems early on, and have none now at all. I prefer to have the added security of an infinite power supply for my bilge pump, should it take off sometime while I am gone. Taking batteries home may be a distasteful option when you are using a group 25 at 50-60 lbs., but with T105's (6v golf cart batt) at 135lbs for the pair, or a L116 at about 90 lbs, this is not a wise thing to try.
It also adds to the hassle factor of sailing, which one tries valiantly to minimize, or you find yourself not going as often etc.etc.

So with a 3 stage charging system, you could stop shlepping batteries back and forth Dave..leave her plugged in for the week, get a proper charge on the cells, regularly, and have plenty of power for the bilge pump should those polyestermites eat through your hull sometime.. ;^)))!

I hope I am not boring folks with my preaching about batteries. It is a complicated subject, with many options..some bad. I have just come through this forest myself, and learned a few things on the way.


Hey, was 5deg. up in the boating country a few days ago! Yippee..swimming weather! hee..

Larry

I guess it depends on how the wiring is set up, but in a "factory" wiring on a CD27, if the engine is running with the battery selector on 1, does the alternator charge both batteries or only the battery selected? Thanks
Hud

demers@sgi.com

[Ken Coit]

Larry,

I hope you conveyed your concern to the marina in question. It doesn't take much current to stop a heart cold. A couple miliamps will do it. I'm glad you moved out of that slip, but they need to get that leaky current fixed!

Ken

Mike,

Well, I noted that my Perry nut was totally eaten away a year after we took delivery of our boat, so I did a bit of rewiring with removing the dock green wire to the engine connection unless we are charging from the dock power. This is done through our inverter/charger. I also moved to a different dock where there was newer wiring in the finger pier, and my plug-in tester said that the wiring was correct. The price was the same, the scene from the cockpit was far better, and it was also quieter along with being less leaky.
On our boat this was the cause or source of the electrolysis, and it must have been pretty aggressive, as now I found the brass tailpiece in my galley sink had been all but eaten away (dangerous situation of the wet kind). Measurments with a microvoltmeter showed basicly less than 10 mv between the prop shaft and green earth ground. I had 60+ VAC at one time..and we got small shocks when touching shrouds and water or wet docks sometimes.

Somewhere in there, I think I answered your question..

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Larry,
How did you CURE electrolysis problems. My CD25 has no shore power. I would like to add it to keep batteries charged for infinite bilge pump power as you say, but I hesitate to add potential problems (One wire hook it up two wires screw it up).

Mike Buppert
CD25 "Lucille"
Toms River Yacht Club
Barnegat Bay, NJ

So many questions...
The stock CD system is a good average way to charge the batteries and keep them healthy for a few years anyway, depending on use, size, load, and care. They rarely will actually get topped off as is required by the manuf. however, and this is one thing that grows dendrites between plates, and kills them eventually.
Combining batteries for a period of time, while motoring is fine Warren, but the problem happens when you get to your anchorage, toss out the hook, grab the beer and wife, and head to the friends boat next over in the bay. Damn, forgot to switch over to my even or is it odd today..battery? Too complicated for most people to keep on top of. Batteries that are combined have a voltage equal to the lowest voltage of those being combined. If one is dead..soon will the other be so.
So time has taught that a separated system is best, but this is not written in stone either.

What I have found to work exceedingly well is a Charge Combiner. This device takes your charging source, connects it up to the batteries..which the combiner parallels while being charged. As soon as the batteries are topped up to the individual preset voltages, the respective relay opens up, stopping the charging. This eliminates having to worry about putting the battery switch in the "Both" position, then remembering to return it to the house bank.

In answer to Mike and Dave's plugging in question, I do always plug in. I cured our electrolysis problems early on, and have none now at all. I prefer to have the added security of an infinite power supply for my bilge pump, should it take off sometime while I am gone. Taking batteries home may be a distasteful option when you are using a group 25 at 50-60 lbs., but with T105's (6v golf cart batt) at 135lbs for the pair, or a L116 at about 90 lbs, this is not a wise thing to try.
It also adds to the hassle factor of sailing, which one tries valiantly to minimize, or you find yourself not going as often etc.etc.

So with a 3 stage charging system, you could stop shlepping batteries back and forth Dave..leave her plugged in for the week, get a proper charge on the cells, regularly, and have plenty of power for the bilge pump should those polyestermites eat through your hull sometime.. ;^)))!

I hope I am not boring folks with my preaching about batteries. It is a complicated subject, with many options..some bad. I have just come through this forest myself, and learned a few things on the way.


Hey, was 5deg. up in the boating country a few days ago! Yippee..swimming weather! hee..

Larry

parfait@nc.rr.com

[Bob Loewenstein]

Warren,

On our 27, we have 2 batteries and use very little power during daysails. Whenever I run the engine, which is rare, I always set to both to charge both batteries. I've heard of people doing the even/odd usage bit. If both batteries are ok, I suppose that's also ok. With our light battery usage on the 27, I figure I'd rather keep both batteries topped together. If we were at a slip, I'd probably top up with a charger plugged into the shore power. But we're on a mooring and never see power for the summer.

As far as keeping the switch on both while sailing and not motoring, I don't. Mainly because I know one battery holds its charge better than the other and I don't want the good battery to drain into the less good battery. This won't happen when the engine is charging both. But with no current going into both, water, or in this case charge, will seek its own level.


Bob




rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu

[Ken Coit]

Larry,

Thanks for the info. I discovered a similar deficiency onboard Parfait that needs to be rectified.

Below is a link to a two-page decription of the West Marine model #143286 combiner manufactured by Yandina Ltd. in Oakland, CA.

Ken

Dan,

Well..almost and not quite. Try this:
Wire from:
The alternator to the input of the charge combiner. This will be a positive or red cable.
From Output 1 on the charge combiner, go to battery 1's positive post.
From Output 2 of the charge combiner to battery 2's positive post.

This completes the charge paths. There is always a load on the alternator, so switching loads on or off while running will not destroy your diodes in the alternator. But charge with the '1-2-off-both' switch in the 1 or 2 position. The 'both' position will defeat the charge combiner by putting the positive on each battery in parallel with each other, shorting out the combiners outputs. Nothing will blow, but the combiner will not be able to see the two individual banks, and so the voltage sensing will be fubar'd up.

Then...wire battery 1 (+) to the '1-2-off-both' switch's terminal for position 1.
Wire battery 2's (+) terminal to the switches position 2 terminal.

Now, when you need to start, switch to battery 1 (assuming it is the start battery). For house power, switch to battery 2. You have the redundancy of being able to use either battery to start or to run your radio or lights (although the start batt. should be used for that only under normal circumstances). The alternator sees a constant minimum load through the charge combiner, keeping the batteries topped up whenever you do run the engine.

The difference between this method and the standard factory method is that the factory system steered the charge to the battery of interest. This system charges both cells continuously, while letting you choose which bank to use for what.

How does that sound to you?

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

My charger is the alternator on the 1977 Johnson 9.9 outboard. Let me recap what I think you are saying. There is one set of cables coming from the motor. I lead those to the Charge Combiner unit, I then lead from the charge combiner to the Off-1-2-Both switch and on from there. When I want to start the motor, I set the switch to "1" because that is where the starter battery is. Once the engine is started, I flip the switch to "Both". The charge combiner has the intelligence to know what battery to charge and how much to charge it without blowing up me and the batteries. ?? I think I may have the switch and the combiner positions reversed??
This may explain why both my cars have electrical problems.

parfait@nc.rr.com

[Mark Yashinsky]

Do you have the charge combiner charging both the house (deep cycle) and the engine (starting) batteries??? If yes, i take it they are on separate outputs, correct??? And how do you tell the combiner that there is different types of batteries on each of the combiner's outputs??? From the Heart website, it was my impression that the output had to have all the same type of batteries.

Is IT to mean IW (Iron Wind)???

[Dan H]

Larry,

Thank you. This, I can understand.

Dan,

Well..almost and not quite. Try this:
Wire from:
The alternator to the input of the charge combiner. This will be a positive or red cable.
From Output 1 on the charge combiner, go to battery 1's positive post.
From Output 2 of the charge combiner to battery 2's positive post.

This completes the charge paths. There is always a load on the alternator, so switching loads on or off while running will not destroy your diodes in the alternator. But charge with the '1-2-off-both' switch in the 1 or 2 position. The 'both' position will defeat the charge combiner by putting the positive on each battery in parallel with each other, shorting out the combiners outputs. Nothing will blow, but the combiner will not be able to see the two individual banks, and so the voltage sensing will be fubar'd up.

Then...wire battery 1 (+) to the '1-2-off-both' switch's terminal for position 1.
Wire battery 2's (+) terminal to the switches position 2 terminal.

Now, when you need to start, switch to battery 1 (assuming it is the start battery). For house power, switch to battery 2. You have the redundancy of being able to use either battery to start or to run your radio or lights (although the start batt. should be used for that only under normal circumstances). The alternator sees a constant minimum load through the charge combiner, keeping the batteries topped up whenever you do run the engine.

The difference between this method and the standard factory method is that the factory system steered the charge to the battery of interest. This system charges both cells continuously, while letting you choose which bank to use for what.

How does that sound to you?

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

My charger is the alternator on the 1977 Johnson 9.9 outboard. Let me recap what I think you are saying. There is one set of cables coming from the motor. I lead those to the Charge Combiner unit, I then lead from the charge combiner to the Off-1-2-Both switch and on from there. When I want to start the motor, I set the switch to "1" because that is where the starter battery is. Once the engine is started, I flip the switch to "Both". The charge combiner has the intelligence to know what battery to charge and how much to charge it without blowing up me and the batteries. ?? I think I may have the switch and the combiner positions reversed??
This may explain why both my cars have electrical problems

djhhan@aol.com

[Larry DeMers]

Since we left, they replaced a lot of the docks and wiring, walkways, landscaping, and in general tore the place up. The old under-dock cable was split and bare in spots, torn up by repeatedly taking it apart and putting it together in the spring. So yes, I suspect they had to replace it all, and that it was done right. I did not mention this shock to management until after we moved. I saw how the wiring wa sand decided that if my complaint caused them to rip this thing up, I would be forever the one they associated that expenditure with. So I made sure the neighbors knew, as they wanted to know why we left, and then after I got the new dock, told the shop manager who runs the docks too. He could have cared less. Since the new wiring has to be installed by a licensed electrician, I was comfortable knowing that it would be done right. I suspect that winter rash and age got to the wiring.

You guys may want to buy one of these little plug-in testers for 120VAC. They are inexpensive, and tell you if the ground is open, or it the phases are reversed. SInce we tie up to docks in Minn., Wisc. Mich. and Canada (with Michigan being the absolute worst docks..friendly people though), this device has alerted us to several places where the wiring was reversed or ground missing. Hardware stores carry this tester, and it runs around $5-8.

Cheers!

Larry

Larry,

I hope you conveyed your concern to the marina in question. It doesn't take much current to stop a heart cold. A couple miliamps will do it. I'm glad you moved out of that slip, but they need to get that leaky current fixed!

Ken

Mike,

Well, I noted that my Perry nut was totally eaten away a year after we took delivery of our boat, so I did a bit of rewiring with removing the dock green wire to the engine connection unless we are charging from the dock power. This is done through our inverter/charger. I also moved to a different dock where there was newer wiring in the finger pier, and my plug-in tester said that the wiring was correct. The price was the same, the scene from the cockpit was far better, and it was also quieter along with being less leaky.
On our boat this was the cause or source of the electrolysis, and it must have been pretty aggressive, as now I found the brass tailpiece in my galley sink had been all but eaten away (dangerous situation of the wet kind). Measurments with a microvoltmeter showed basicly less than 10 mv between the prop shaft and green earth ground. I had 60+ VAC at one time..and we got small shocks when touching shrouds and water or wet docks sometimes.

Somewhere in there, I think I answered your question..

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Larry,
How did you CURE electrolysis problems. My CD25 has no shore power. I would like to add it to keep batteries charged for infinite bilge pump power as you say, but I hesitate to add potential problems (One wire hook it up two wires screw it up).

Mike Buppert
CD25 "Lucille"
Toms River Yacht Club
Barnegat Bay, NJ

demers@sgi.com

[Jacob Bogatch]

Since we left, they replaced a lot of the docks and wiring, walkways, landscaping, and in general tore the place up. The old under-dock cable was split and bare in spots, torn up by repeatedly taking it apart and putting it together in the spring. So yes, I suspect they had to replace it all, and that it was done right. I did not mention this shock to management until after we moved. I saw how the wiring wa sand decided that if my complaint caused them to rip this thing up, I would be forever the one they associated that expenditure with. So I made sure the neighbors knew, as they wanted to know why we left, and then after I got the new dock, told the shop manager who runs the docks too. He could have cared less. Since the new wiring has to be installed by a licensed electrician, I was comfortable knowing that it would be done right. I suspect that winter rash and age got to the wiring.

You guys may want to buy one of these little plug-in testers for 120VAC. They are inexpensive, and tell you if the ground is open, or it the phases are reversed. SInce we tie up to docks in Minn., Wisc. Mich. and Canada (with Michigan being the absolute worst docks..friendly people though), this device has alerted us to several places where the wiring was reversed or ground missing. Hardware stores carry this tester, and it runs around $5-8.

Cheers!

Larry

Larry,

I hope you conveyed your concern to the marina in question. It doesn't take much current to stop a heart cold. A couple miliamps will do it. I'm glad you moved out of that slip, but they need to get that leaky current fixed!

Ken

Mike,

Well, I noted that my Perry nut was totally eaten away a year after we took delivery of our boat, so I did a bit of rewiring with removing the dock green wire to the engine connection unless we are charging from the dock power. This is done through our inverter/charger. I also moved to a different dock where there was newer wiring in the finger pier, and my plug-in tester said that the wiring was correct. The price was the same, the scene from the cockpit was far better, and it was also quieter along with being less leaky.
On our boat this was the cause or source of the electrolysis, and it must have been pretty aggressive, as now I found the brass tailpiece in my galley sink had been all but eaten away (dangerous situation of the wet kind). Measurments with a microvoltmeter showed basicly less than 10 mv between the prop shaft and green earth ground. I had 60+ VAC at one time..and we got small shocks when touching shrouds and water or wet docks sometimes.

Somewhere in there, I think I answered your question..

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Hi larry
Is there any difference between Battery Isolator and Battery Combiner?
Jacob Bogatch
"Fhloston Paradise"
CD 30C



jbogatch@yahoo.com

[Larry DeMers]

Mark,

Yes, both (actually all three) batteries are being charged by the battery combiner. They are all in the Wet (or Flooded)Cell family of batteries (truck type starting battery, group 31 deep cycle and 2- T105 Trojan 6v Golf Cart Batteries), so the combiner just looks for the preset maximum voltage to be exceeded on each battery, then drops the relay for the battery that hit it's top end.
What the Charger and the combiner will not do is to try and charge two different family of batteries (ie:Gel Cell with wet cell or Gel and AGM etc.) Each separate family has a definite maximum no-damage voltage that you must not exceed..especially Gel and AGM's. In general, different families of batteries should not be combined in any battery bank.

So if you are sporting AGM's in your boat, then you would set the charger and the combiner for AGM batteries. This regulates the max. voltage from the AGM spec. These cells can be destroyed catastrophicly if they are subjected to overvoltage according to many published reports out there. At the very least, they will warp plates and short out.

"IT" is a tantilizingly interesting new form of energy or power, demonstrated before the high chieftains of industry a few weeks ago. Might figure in our lives within 3-5 years they say. It will be publicly shown this summer, although pictures, patent app, and drawings of the test model are on the net now.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers

Do you have the charge combiner charging both the house (deep cycle) and the engine (starting) batteries??? If yes, i take it they are on separate outputs, correct??? And how do you tell the combiner that there is different types of batteries on each of the combiner's outputs??? From the Heart website, it was my impression that the output had to have all the same type of batteries.

Is IT to mean IW (Iron Wind)???

demers@sgi.com

[Ken Coit]

The battery combiner uses one or two relays so there is little voltage drop across it. A battery isolator uses diodes to isolate one battery from the other, but there is a voltage drop of several tenths of a volt across them, so the charger has to be set to a higher voltage to compensate. Otherwise, the batteries would never reach full charge.

Ken

Since we left, they replaced a lot of the docks and wiring, walkways, landscaping, and in general tore the place up. The old under-dock cable was split and bare in spots, torn up by repeatedly taking it apart and putting it together in the spring. So yes, I suspect they had to replace it all, and that it was done right. I did not mention this shock to management until after we moved. I saw how the wiring wa sand decided that if my complaint caused them to rip this thing up, I would be forever the one they associated that expenditure with. So I made sure the neighbors knew, as they wanted to know why we left, and then after I got the new dock, told the shop manager who runs the docks too. He could have cared less. Since the new wiring has to be installed by a licensed electrician, I was comfortable knowing that it would be done right. I suspect that winter rash and age got to the wiring.

You guys may want to buy one of these little plug-in testers for 120VAC. They are inexpensive, and tell you if the ground is open, or it the phases are reversed. SInce we tie up to docks in Minn., Wisc. Mich. and Canada (with Michigan being the absolute worst docks..friendly people though), this device has alerted us to several places where the wiring was reversed or ground missing. Hardware stores carry this tester, and it runs around $5-8.

Cheers!

Larry

Larry,

I hope you conveyed your concern to the marina in question. It doesn't take much current to stop a heart cold. A couple miliamps will do it. I'm glad you moved out of that slip, but they need to get that leaky current fixed!

Ken

Hi larry
Is there any difference between Battery Isolator and Battery Combiner?
Jacob Bogatch
"Fhloston Paradise"
CD 30C

parfait@nc.rr.com

[Neil Gordon]

>>It was recommended to me that if you have two batteries, with no real house loads that you should set the battery switch to #1 on odd days sailing and to #2 on even days sailing, to keep each battery charged. That's fine if the sailing calendar cooperates or if you keep a log of the dates you sailed so you know if you are out of balance. Can any harm be done by setting the switch to "both", starting the engine and leaving it there for the day while sailing/motoring maybe every 4th or 5th sail?<<

The idea of having two batteries and choosing #1 or #2 is that you can be out all day/night sailing, use lights, instruments, radio, etc., drain the battery and still have a fully charged battery to start the motor. Selecting #1 or #2 only matters when you are discharging... when starting the motor and when it's running, choosing "both" will give you the most starting power and will top off both batteries. It's only when you turn the motor off and the charging stops that you choose one or the other. So there's no reason to use anything but "both" for motoring.

Using #1 on odd days and vice versa balances battery use. A battery can only go through so many discharge/charge cycles. Balancing use doesn't have to be exact.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Bob Malinka]

Larry:

How about a Fuel Cell?

Bob

"IT" is a tantilizingly interesting new form of energy or power, demonstrated before the high chieftains of industry a few weeks ago. Might figure in our lives within 3-5 years they say. It will be publicly shown this summer, although pictures, patent app, and drawings of the test model are on the net now.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers

Do you have the charge combiner charging both the house (deep cycle) and the engine (starting) batteries??? If yes, i take it they are on separate outputs, correct??? And how do you tell the combiner that there is different types of batteries on each of the combiner's outputs??? From the Heart website, it was my impression that the output had to have all the same type of batteries.

Is IT to mean IW (Iron Wind)???

Ranger1442@hotmail.com