Bulwarks & Stanchions
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Bulwarks & Stanchions
Now that much of the hull/deck joint has been fiberglassed over, it would be difficult to attach the previous toe/rub rail to the rounded edge. In any case, I wanted a more substantial barrier to help keep things (and me) on deck. Following the example of Fred's Fenix and John Stone's Far Reach, I have constructed brackets for stanchions and a bulwark. The brackets are constructed from G10, FRP, fiberglass and epoxy and modeled on the Far Reach design. The stanchions will be 30", 1 1/4" solid FRP rods.
Going to need a lot of them:
I had intended to spray paint them, but I didn't want to invest in the equipment necessary for working with hazardous paint. Therefore, I am hand painting them with two part polyurethane, using Jen 1" foam and then brushed as best I can:
G10 for backing.
With hardware, she is starting to look like a boat again.
Going to need a lot of them:
I had intended to spray paint them, but I didn't want to invest in the equipment necessary for working with hazardous paint. Therefore, I am hand painting them with two part polyurethane, using Jen 1" foam and then brushed as best I can:
G10 for backing.
With hardware, she is starting to look like a boat again.
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
Hilbert: I think John Stone used 11 brackets per side on a 36 footer. How many are you using per side on your 28? And how do you plan to construct the bulwark itself? Interesting project, I will keep following your progress.
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
Very impressive planning and execution. Thanks for documenting for those of us with less imagination.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
The boat had two stanchions and a gate between the pulpit and stern rails.Vincent wrote:Hilbert: I think John Stone used 11 brackets per side on a 36 footer. How many are you using per side on your 28? And how do you plan to construct the bulwark itself?
After the changes, there will be partial bulwarks from the bow chocks to about to about 18 inches aft of the chainplates.
On each side, there will be 6 brackets, of which 4 will also support stanchions. The pulpit has been removed and the life line will terminate at the forward edge of the bowsprit.
One of the brackets without a stanchion will support a navigational light and be a conduit for it's wiring. The maximum distance between supports for the lifeline will be 6 ft.
Drawing not to scale:
I'm still undecided about what material to use in the construction of the bulwark.
May try something unconventional to get in the water sooner and then if necessary revisit it.
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
I know that it is not very "yachty" to use plastic boards on a plastic boat, but this PVC trim from Home Depot looks interesting:
- Lightweight
- Impervious to moisture
- Will not rot, crack, splinter or split
- Does not require painting, accepts paints and stains well
- Rigid, but also flexible to cold or heat bend to a degree
- Easy to work with - cuts, nails, screws, glues, and routes like wood and better than wood
- Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
- Joined: Feb 13th, '05, 20:40
- Location: Raven1984 Cape Dory 30C Hull #309Noank, CT
- Contact:
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
That stuff has many great qualities but I would not use it for bulwarks. I have used it for trim and it has great rot resistance. For your use, where it will be free standing, it just isn't strong enough. It tends to snap if highly stressed, especially as it ages. Before you invest in your time and material, get an 8' piece and suspend it between some blocks placed as far apart as you stanchions and stand on it. Maybe even hop up and down to see what you think of it qualities when fresh. It will not get better with time. This is an area where you will be counting on the material you use and your life could depend on it, Steve.
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- Posts: 3621
- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
- Location: S/V Far Reach: CD 36 #61 www.farreachvoayges.net www.farreachvoyages.com
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
Hilbert,
You’ve been doing some really good work. Very patient and determined. Definitely like a junk yard dog.
I’m with Steve L regarding the composite wood. Just not strong enough.
The bulwarks on the FR are one of her best safety features. They get stressed pretty hard. All my snatch blocks are stropped to it. Also, the hawesholes are installed in the bulwarks. So they just can’t be too strong. I took the design from Larry Pardey and Taleisin. I talked to Larry in person about the design. They are 3/4” thick Burmese teak on Taleisin. That much teak was beyond my budget. So, I made them out of African Mahogany. Because it’s not as strong as teak Larry had me make them 7/8” thick to compensate for the difference in strength.
But, I tell you this. If I were to do it again, I might well make them out of ash. Ash is very strong. It’s hard as hell. But it mills great. It glues well. It paints well too. And...best of all it’s not very expensive. It’s not great in rot resistance but you are going to paint them so high rot resistance is not critical.
Something else...you are going to bolt them to the bulwarks brackets. The heads of the bolts (mine are flat head machine screws with bungs) might tear through the composite lumber. They will never do that in ash.
You don’t want quartersawn ash either, so the less expensive plain sawn is perfect. The grain runs widthwise which will be oriented vertically when they are bolted to the brackets and that will make them even stiffer vertically, which is what you want. It also means they will bend easier to match the curve of the gunwale.
Last, your brackets look great. I bet they are very strong—G10 certainly is. What kind of epoxy did you use for the fillets? I ask because I have no idea how strong the fillets are. I’m not experienced enough with epoxy for that kind of project. Have you destruction tested one of them? If not, and you used west epoxy you might call the tech division ask if they would look at one and see if they can break it. They might really enjoy that. And you could get some empirical data. My instinct tells me they are strong. But I can say for certain how strong.
I’m certainly not telling you how or what to do. Just suggesting some things to consider. Look forward to seeing her when she is ready for the water.
You’ve been doing some really good work. Very patient and determined. Definitely like a junk yard dog.
I’m with Steve L regarding the composite wood. Just not strong enough.
The bulwarks on the FR are one of her best safety features. They get stressed pretty hard. All my snatch blocks are stropped to it. Also, the hawesholes are installed in the bulwarks. So they just can’t be too strong. I took the design from Larry Pardey and Taleisin. I talked to Larry in person about the design. They are 3/4” thick Burmese teak on Taleisin. That much teak was beyond my budget. So, I made them out of African Mahogany. Because it’s not as strong as teak Larry had me make them 7/8” thick to compensate for the difference in strength.
But, I tell you this. If I were to do it again, I might well make them out of ash. Ash is very strong. It’s hard as hell. But it mills great. It glues well. It paints well too. And...best of all it’s not very expensive. It’s not great in rot resistance but you are going to paint them so high rot resistance is not critical.
Something else...you are going to bolt them to the bulwarks brackets. The heads of the bolts (mine are flat head machine screws with bungs) might tear through the composite lumber. They will never do that in ash.
You don’t want quartersawn ash either, so the less expensive plain sawn is perfect. The grain runs widthwise which will be oriented vertically when they are bolted to the brackets and that will make them even stiffer vertically, which is what you want. It also means they will bend easier to match the curve of the gunwale.
Last, your brackets look great. I bet they are very strong—G10 certainly is. What kind of epoxy did you use for the fillets? I ask because I have no idea how strong the fillets are. I’m not experienced enough with epoxy for that kind of project. Have you destruction tested one of them? If not, and you used west epoxy you might call the tech division ask if they would look at one and see if they can break it. They might really enjoy that. And you could get some empirical data. My instinct tells me they are strong. But I can say for certain how strong.
I’m certainly not telling you how or what to do. Just suggesting some things to consider. Look forward to seeing her when she is ready for the water.
- Attachments
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- The bulwarks have to be as strong as possible. There are three strops in this photo. They can all be in use at the same time.
- 79A884CE-C9BD-4BEA-B2C5-36021D6C07D9.jpeg (863.12 KiB) Viewed 1411 times
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
Steve & John, thanks for your assessment of composite board.
I gave a lot of thought to the strength of the stanchions, but bulwarks were an afterthought.
My knowledge of wood is limited and your suggestion to consider plain sawed Ash is appreciated.
I will probably never test the actual strength of the brackets. Fortunately, I started their construction after I had gained some experience in working with the materials.
The fillets used for G10 joints are covered by 2 layers of 1708 biaxail in a chemical bond, for a total of 4 layers 1708 (top and bottom).
Over a width of 4", I expect the tensile strength to be substantial.
Top Joint:
Bottom Joint:
For the quantity of epoxy that I have used over the past several years, West Systems is too expensive.
I purchase from Clark Craft for about $72/gal. I've had good results with their product which has no amine blush and a 1 to 1 mix ratio.
Their mix ratio makes it easy to make batches as small as 10 ml, using 1oz mixing cups.
Yesterday was a full day of working to prepare backing plates for the brackets. The underside of the deck near the edges is generally uneven.
Most of the backings require epoxying the plate in place to spread the load evenly.
I gave a lot of thought to the strength of the stanchions, but bulwarks were an afterthought.
My knowledge of wood is limited and your suggestion to consider plain sawed Ash is appreciated.
I will probably never test the actual strength of the brackets. Fortunately, I started their construction after I had gained some experience in working with the materials.
The fillets used for G10 joints are covered by 2 layers of 1708 biaxail in a chemical bond, for a total of 4 layers 1708 (top and bottom).
Over a width of 4", I expect the tensile strength to be substantial.
Top Joint:
Bottom Joint:
For the quantity of epoxy that I have used over the past several years, West Systems is too expensive.
I purchase from Clark Craft for about $72/gal. I've had good results with their product which has no amine blush and a 1 to 1 mix ratio.
Their mix ratio makes it easy to make batches as small as 10 ml, using 1oz mixing cups.
Yesterday was a full day of working to prepare backing plates for the brackets. The underside of the deck near the edges is generally uneven.
Most of the backings require epoxying the plate in place to spread the load evenly.
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- Posts: 3621
- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
- Location: S/V Far Reach: CD 36 #61 www.farreachvoayges.net www.farreachvoyages.com
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
Hilbert
Didn’t know you had used biaxial cloth as well. They are probably exceptionally strong. After all, the hull deck joint of the FR is held together almost exclusively with biaxial.
Carry on sir.
Didn’t know you had used biaxial cloth as well. They are probably exceptionally strong. After all, the hull deck joint of the FR is held together almost exclusively with biaxial.
Carry on sir.
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
Hilbert,
I'm very interested in seeing your brackets but the images aren't showing up (at least for me), can anyone see his images?
This may be a browser issue on my computer, or network filtering at my location, just trying to figure this out.
Thanks,
Josh
I'm very interested in seeing your brackets but the images aren't showing up (at least for me), can anyone see his images?
This may be a browser issue on my computer, or network filtering at my location, just trying to figure this out.
Thanks,
Josh
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
Hi Josh,
I can view all pics.
Keith
I can view all pics.
Keith
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
After searching the Internet far and wide, I found reclaimed southern long leaf yellow pine in my own Baltimore backyard.
According to Fred (fenixrises), "The 'Spray' was replanked with this wood. Back in the day it was considered one of the best planking woods available."
This lumber was once flooring in an early 19th century home.
The boards are 5 1/4" wide and about 13/16" thick. I set theme about 3/4" - 1" above the deck:
According to Fred (fenixrises), "The 'Spray' was replanked with this wood. Back in the day it was considered one of the best planking woods available."
This lumber was once flooring in an early 19th century home.
The boards are 5 1/4" wide and about 13/16" thick. I set theme about 3/4" - 1" above the deck:
- S/V Ethan Grey
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Apr 19th, '19, 06:52
- Location: S/V Ethan Grey - CD 30C
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
Looks really good. I really like the idea of adding bulwarks to the Cape Dory. They just seem to belong.
David
S/V Ethan Grey
1981 CD 30C, Hull #199
Niceville, FL
CDSOA# 1947
S/V Ethan Grey
1981 CD 30C, Hull #199
Niceville, FL
CDSOA# 1947
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
I've only seen a few examples of bulwarks added to CDs and these have had divergent designs, materials and implementations.David wrote:Looks really good. I really like the idea of adding bulwarks to the Cape Dory. They just seem to belong.
I think that they all have had nice lines, but more importantly bulwarks help to prevent people and things from falling or being washed over the deck.
The natural wood "look" was too good to paint and I didn't want the maintenance associated with clear transparent protective finishes.
After watching some youtube videos, I decided to try a solution of 70% tung oil and 30% Helmsman spar urethane (sold at home improvement stores despite the nautical sounding name).
I will post in a year or two on how well it is working.
I'm now working on brackets to angle the bulwarks inboard of the exterior chainplates.
Re: Bulwarks & Stanchions
Very nice work Hilbert . Curious what material you used to make the backing plates, and what thickness? Thanks!
JD
JD
MHB Sailor