Midship Cleats, Suitable For Storm Lines

[hilbert]

I'm adding 8" open base bronze cleats midship. I would like them to be secure enough to handle storm lines.
With the cleat above the uneven deck joint, the backing plate took some creativity.
I first filled in any voids with thickened epoxy.



Structural FRP was used for the backing plate. I epoxied together two 4" lengths of 3" x 1" x 1/4" U-channel FRP to create a surface 6" x 4".
A thick layer of fiberglass was added to take up the space between the joint and the bottom of the deck.



The surface was covered with thickened epoxy to take up any empty space above the backing plate, when lifted into place. A jack makes a nifty third hand.



With the bolts in place.



I used a length of the U-channel filled with thickened epoxy to raise the cleat to the level of the toe rail. The block still needs to be painted.



View from the side.

[csoule13]

Pretty dang spiffy. Are the side decks wide enough for this to be easily avoided while moving around deck? I keep thinking of this for my 27, and then think there's a broken toe in my future.

[JD-MDR]

Thanks Jonathon, I found two of those bronze cleats on my boat. now I have an idea what to do with them. I have my spring lines hooked to the tailing winches. Its that or run them the whole length of the boat. there are no midship cleats on the dock either. I worry about tying anything to the jib sheet traveler cars. They have cleats that fit on that track but I don't want to work those points any more that necessary. I still have the original fasteners etc. And they are not leaking. Well One was . I replaced it.

[John Stone]

Nice job Hilbert. Bronze bolts, washers, nuts. Excellent. Looks very good. Should be very strong.

[hilbert]

Are the side decks wide enough for this to be easily avoided while moving around deck? I keep thinking of this for my 27, and then think there's a broken toe in my future.

If memory serves me, the deck is about 18" wide here. At 3" width, the base for the cleat has the same width as the standard stanchion base. However, its shape is more intimidating.
When sailing, I take a number of precautions including wearing shoes on deck. If I had more smarts, I would wear a helmet to protect them as well.

I have my spring lines hooked to the tailing winches.

I would not want to subject the winches (and by extension the cockpit coamings) to extreme shock loads.

Nice job Hilbert. Bronze bolts, washers, nuts. Excellent. Looks very good. Should be very strong.

Thanks John. I have used FRP, G10 and other structural fiberglass products extensively.
This is a picture of the backing plate for an aft cleat. There is a square of G10 in the U-channel:



In the forward berth, these 5/8" bolts have been recessed to avoid having to sleep in a helmet.
The bolts sit in FRP tubes and close against G10, within a G9 U-channel filled with thickened epoxy.
There is also 90° angle FRP on the outside to secure the liner.

[JD-MDR]

Hi Jonathon, You really are a firm believer in G-10. If I could ask, what is the advantage of the u-channel and what is G-9.
Do you think That material would be good for me to make my mounting bracket for my steering . I mean the bracket that holds the worm drive and bearing? Thanks

[hilbert]

A u-channel offers superior structural support over a flat bar, especially when there are bending loads.
Probably isn't significantly better than a flat bar, for these short lengths as backing.

G-9 is commonly used in electrical applications. It has properties similar to G-10 along with excellent arc resistance.
I selected it for its dimensions, which were not available in FRP.

Do you think That material would be good for me to make my mounting bracket for my steering?

G-10 is suitable with a tensile strength > 32,000 psi. However, I would be concerned with the strength of the joint in a bracket.
Epoxy that doesn't suffer an adhesive failure has a shear strength of about 2,500 psi. This can be augmented by a fillet of thickened epoxy and fiberglass cloth.
A bracket could also be strengthened by adding a flat triangular piece of G-10 along one edge, if it doesn't interfere with the intended purpose.

I think this is something that I would try, but that's just me. Feel free to send me a PM if you would like to discuss it further.

[JD-MDR]

I dug up the cleats I have and I also a piece of g-10. I think I can go ahead and install these without spending any money. Except for bolts. Oh, I guess I will need to get something to raise them on the deck above the rail. Any suggestions other than another $50 piece of g-10. Also I'm wondering where I should place them. I'm thinking close to the main bulkhead. I think that makes it useful if I ever need to use the spring line to maneuver in strong currents when leaving a dock.

[John Stone]

I dug up the cleats I have and I also a piece of g-10. I think I can go ahead and install these without spending any money. Except for bolts. Oh, I guess I will need to get something to raise them on the deck above the rail. Any suggestions other than another $50 piece of g-10. Also I'm wondering where I should place them. I'm thinking close to the main bulkhead. I think that makes it useful if I ever need to use the spring line to maneuver in strong currents when leaving a dock.

I don’t know if it has to be near the main bulkheads. They are probably not tabbed to the deck anyway if you have a one piece headliner with molded slots for the top of the bulkhead. I’d get about half way between bow and stern. The important thing is you have to have a good place for the backing-plates with access to them.

You also want to radius the edge of the G10 all the way around — where backing plate makes contact with the deck so there is no hard edge. You can do it with a router round-over bit, a file, a belt sander, a right angle grinder. Does not have to be pretty, just soften the 90° edge.

I’d put the cleat on teak pad of teak, iroko, ipe, or even purpleheart. Maybe 3/4-1” thick.

If you do it right you can use the cleat for all kinds of things.

[Jim Walsh]

Also I'm wondering where I should place them. I'm thinking close to the main bulkhead.

As close to amidships as is practical. You want lines to lead fair from forward or aft. Your backing plate can be aluminum, stainless, bronze, G10......etc.

[JD-MDR]

Thanks guysJust what I wanted to hear I have g-10 for the backing and teak for blocks. AllI need to buy is bolts. A good project Thanks Jonathon

[JD-MDR]

Thanks guysJust what I wanted to hear I have g-10 for the backing and teak for blocks. AllI need to buy is bolts. A good project Thanks Jonathon

[hilbert]

Hi John, I walked around the marina and checked out where other boats had their midship cleats.
With that information and taking into account some constraints specific to what I have done on my boat, I selected a position that "felt" right.
As John and Jim have suggested, the cleats ended up about half way between bow and stern.

I found it necessary to cut away the liner for access. I used an oscillating tool to make the cut and saved the liner cutout for reattachment later.
The surface under the deck will not be even.
The outer bolts will most likely pass through the thick hull deck joint.
The inner bolts will probably only pass through the deck, in an area that may or may not have balsa core. If there is balsa core, then all the usual steps should be taken to seal the hole with epoxy against deck rot.



Because of the height offset between the inner and outer bolts, you may want to use two separate strips of G10 for backing (one for the inner bolts and a second for the outer).

If you chose to use one large backing plate as I did, then you will want to slant the backing at the same angle as the deck so that the washers and nuts press up evenly against the surface. The blue tape in this picture held in a large reservoir of thickened epoxy while curing, to fill in any voids.

[JD-MDR]

Thanks Jonathon, I know what your talking about with the deck and hull joint . I thought I would do it the same as my chain backing plates and mush them into a pastey mixture of chopped mat and thickened epoxy. I think I want them just behind the main shrouds as shown in the photo but I'll look around at others I won't need to cut any liner and it looks easy to access just aft of the bulkhead. I included a photo of my backstay backing plates. easy to see what we are talking about.
(I'll be changing those next August at haulout). I hear so many comments about not having access in the stern. Mine is completely open, I have some bin boards that come out easily. I keep a couple sails, jibsheet and mooring lines and two buckets back there .

[JD-MDR]

I guess i'll work on these cleats I wanted to place them forward of midship but most of the sailboats have them midway ( like some of you suggested) I hope the teak block is big enough for both. On the underside it seems too much to fill with epoxy, for a even surface for the backing plate but another 6" piece of g-10 cost about $50.