Typhoon deck projects

[Ben Miller]

My spring pre-launch project to rebed the toerails on my Typhoon has metastasized and is now encompassing other parts of the boat. I'm rebedding the toerails because I was getting water leaking down through the mounting screws. Once I had the rail off, it turned out that these had been replacements, and the holes for the old rail had been filled with wooden dowels, which had mostly rotted away and were probably causing most of the leaks. I drilled those out and filled the holes with epoxy.

Then, I squeezed myself back into the seat locker to tape off the nuts for the genoa track (so that they didn't fall down between the hull and liner--ask me how I learned that trick) and while I was there I poked my head back into the lazarette area and noticed that one of my stern cleats was missing a nut. Whoever installed it used bolts that were about 1/2" too short, so one nut had already come loose and fallen off, and the rest were about to do the same.

I pulled the cleat and sure enough, the installer had also not done anything to seal the core around the holes. Luckily they were still dry but since I was in there it seemed like a good idea to take care of that problem. Dug out some core and filled the hole with thickened epoxy, so the next step will be to re-drill and re-mount the cleats.

While I was at it, I addressed another stern issue. A PO had installed a traveler and removed the factory mainsheet blocks. Those holes had been patched properly, and the filler (whatever it was) was coming up. I redrilled those and it looks to me like the core here was also unsealed, likely from Cape Dory. So if you've never pulled your mainsheet blocks, you might want to do that and make sure your core isn't getting wet!

In order to get the toerails off, I had to unmount the bow pulpit. Now that it's off, I think I might leave it off, so I filled the holes. I'll sail without it this summer and see how I feel.

Lastly, I pulled the two cleats that were mounted to the cabin top. They're Wilcox Crittenden Marinium (aluminum alloy) cleats that have long ago had their anodization worn away. I'm going to sand off the remaining coating and just go with bare aluminum. Should be a big cosmetic improvement!

All this fiddling around is delaying my launch, but I'm going to feel much better about the state of the boat when it's all done.

[Ben Miller]

I made some good progress yesterday! With the help of a friend, I got the toe rails re-installed on the boat, well-bedded in some teak-colored Life Calk.

I still have to plug the holes and remount the track for the genoa lead. How would the board recommend I go about doing that? It doesn't look to me like the previous installation had any sealant under the track or its fasteners. That would be easy enough to replicate, but is it the right way to do this? Should I bed the track in some caulk? How about the machine screws that hold it down?

[Ben Miller]

No strong opinions, I guess! After thinking about it a while, I've decided that this really should be sealed somehow. I'm going to wait for some butyl tape to arrive in the mail and do it with that, rather than try to deal with something goopy like Life Calk.

For future reference, the install of the toerails went pretty smoothly, thanks to the help of a friend:

1. I laid down a strip of masking tape on the top of the rub rail and then on the deck inside of where the toerail would go. Also taped off where the scuppers are cut in the toe rail.
2. Dry-fitted the toe rail, installing every other screw, then ran a razor knife along the inside of the toe rail to cut through the masking tape.
3. Removed the toe rail and pulled up the strip of masking tape that was under the toe rail.
4. Wiped down the surface with acetone.
5. Applied a generous (roughly 3/8" wide) bead of teak-colored Life Calk to the deck.
6. With the help of my friend, we positioned the toerail in the air over the boat and started fastening it down, beginning at the bow and moving towards the stern. He swung the free end of the rail around to keep the "working area" in the right spot, and I loosely inserted the screws.
7. Once the screws were all installed, I went back and cinched each one down to get some nice squeeze out.
8. 24 hours later the squeeze out came off pretty easily with the masking tape. An acetone-soaked rag helped rub off any remaining traces of caulk.

[RLW]

Thanks for posting this project. Please do not mistake the lack of dialogue for lack of interest. Ty owners and wannabes are no doubt loving the post. Nice job!

[Ben Miller]

Thanks Rich! Good to know someone's watching.

I installed the plugs in the toerail yesterday evening and kind of "bunged up" the job. The old plugs were kind of a loose fit and were installed with some sort of gummy substance that reminded me of rubber cement but must have been something else. Anyways, after I removed the plugs the holes were too big for a 3/8" plug and too small for 7/16". Based on internet research it seemed like the best course of action was to drill out the holes to 7/16" and use the larger size plug.

Simple, in theory. In practice, I had trouble drilling out the holes without chipping the edges of the holes. I got the job done, but with more than a few "oopses," and a few "#*%@s" too. I'm a little disappointed but I'll get over it. My goal is for the boat to be sound, sturdy, and in good shape, and not necessarily visually perfect.

If anyone has any after-the-fact suggestions for how I could have done a better job, I'm all ears.

[JD-MDR]

I'll be doing alot of this soon. I've heard it's a good idea to put some soft putty or wax on the screw so that hardened epoxy doesn't get in there. It can be difficult to back out the screws with hardened epoxy on them. Just enough to cover the screw head . You still have to epoxy the plug.

[Steve Laume]

If you epoxy the plugs in, they are never going to come out again. Epoxy is great stuff, but not for every application.

I well fitted plug will stay in place with nothing more than a coat of varnish. This will allow the next guy (who may be you) to pull them out again.

Drilling out a hole to a larger size is always problematic. The way I might have proceeded would be to put the smaller plugs or some cut off dowels in, to create a center for the drill bit. You could glue these in with anything you chose because you are going to be drilling away the plug and the adhesive. Gorrila glue is great for this as it has very good gap filling capabilities. This would best be done before the rail was fastened in place. That way you could have it up on a bench and you wouldn't be bottoming out on the screw heads, with a nice drill bit. A brad pointed bit will work much better than a standard twist bit. The tiny point will center the bit and it cuts a cleaner hole.

Rather than buying plugs, I cut my own. You can get a set of plug cutters pretty cheap and then it just takes a small piece of teak and a little time on the drill press to make up a whole mess of them. You can leave them attached to the teak board they come from and snap them off with a little screw driver as they are needed.

Of course you would have had to have noticed the holes were sloppy before the rails were installed and that is not how things tend to work out, Steve.

[Ben Miller]

Of course you would have had to have noticed the holes were sloppy before the rails were installed and that is not how things tend to work out, Steve.

So true. I tend to figure these jobs out one step at a time. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it bites me.

Anyhow, they're back on! I read a lot of competing opinions on how to "glue" the plugs in. Epoxy vs. varnish. I went with varnish (just a quick dip) since the plugs fit pretty tightly in the new holes. If they all pop out in a year, then I get to practice this all over again!

Putting wax in the screw head would have been a great idea. The previous glue (whatever it was) had already made kind of a mess of them. I did wipe the excess varnish off the bottom of the plugs before installing them, so hopefully it won't be too much of a problem next time around.

[Ben Miller]

Continued adventures with my deck hardware! I decided this spring to do some more re-bedding. I haven't found any wet core yet, but I've found plenty of dry crumbly sealant, so I'm sure I'm saving myself (or someone) trouble down the road.

I pulled the foredeck cleat, mast step, and the two cabin-top jib tracks. I'm digging out the core and potting the holes with epoxy, as detailed in Maine Sail's how to.

One thing I thought was interesting was that the foredeck cleat has different core material in the aft mounting holes than the forward ones. Aft is plywood:

Aft holes--core is plywood

IMG_3594.JPG (698.23 KiB) Viewed 1187 times

Fore is balsa:

Forward holes--core is balsa

IMG_3595.JPG (741.21 KiB) Viewed 1187 times

Not something I'm worried about, and they're all well-sealed with epoxy now, but I will take care not to gorilla down the forward bolts too much.

[hilbert]

One thing I thought was interesting was that the foredeck cleat has different core material in the aft mounting holes than the forward ones. Aft is plywood:

I've had the same with an aft cleat. It appears that they inserted plywood to strengthen the deck for the cleat, but then missed the mark when installing the cleat (or maybe the plywood).
Your comment about not to gorilla down makes me wonder if there is not a backing plate underneath?

[Ben Miller]

makes me wonder if there is not a backing plate underneath?

There's some kind of reinforcement built into the deck. I'm not sure what's under that bump, and I've already filled in the holes with thickened epoxy, so I've kind of missed my opportunity to see what's in there. I'm guessing some extra layers of fiberglass?

[hilbert]

I would expect that an epoxy plug is less prone to crushing than balsa core, but nothing good comes from over tightening hardware.

It looks like Cape Dory was constantly changing things up. Everything was probably a constantly changing compromise between cost, quality and experience.

On my 28, there is plywood sandwiched in the deck where double cleats were mounted.
They also put in an aluminum backing plate. One set is visible in the picture and the other is out of view behind the lip of the liner.





When it comes to cleats on the fore-deck, the stronger the mount the better.

[Ben Miller]

On my 28, there is plywood sandwiched in the deck where double cleats were mounted.
They also put in an aluminum backing plate.

Thanks for the pics! It's definitely interesting to see the variation in these boats over time, especially the Typhoon, which had a longer production run than the other CDs. When I re-drill the holes I'll take a close look at the cross-section of the lower skin. If there's a plywood core and then additional layers of glass on the bottom, that seems like pretty robust construction. And at the end of the day, it's an 18 foot sailboat, not the Queen Mary

[John Stone]

Ben
Looks like you are doing some good work. You are being smart and figuring it out. There is no one way to do these sorts of projects.

Regarding plugs. I have drilled and plugged thousands of holes. It’s good to have a few different tricks. Some tips:

-I don’t install plugs with varnish. I use Tite-Bond III. I don’t remove plugs. The edges of the holes usually get boogered up when you remove the plugs. I drill them out with a good counter sink. I mark the center of the plug with a scratch awl then drill there.

-Cut your own plugs. 99 percent of the plugs you will install are 3/8”. Get a fuller tapered plug cutter. For drilling the holes get good countersinks. They don’t have to be fuller countersinks but do make sure they have four cutting flutes. Nice crisp holes. I use standard and tapered drill bits for my countersinks. There have been a few plugs that were too lose and I did not want to drill a bigger hole. So I mixed up some 5 minute epoxy and added a small amount of wood dust. Unless you use a magnifying glass you can’t tell.

-I wax fasteners before I install them. Buy yourself a ring of wax used for a toilet bowl seal. Buy it at a Home Depot. It will last you a life time. I fill an ex spice container, the short ones. Just put a little on the threads. You’ll be amazed at the difference.

-To drill a bigger counter sink hole install the original size first then drill into it with the bigger countersink.

-Chisels. Get the best you can afford. Use a 1/2” chisel on a 3/8” plug. Always keep the bevel down. Take multiple cuts. Use a light mallet. You are checking to see how the grain reacts to the cut. If it is a crisp cut keep going. If it chunks out then change the direction of the cut by 90 degrees. If it tears out below the surface of the wood then drill it out and install another plug. I probably take 5-6 cuts per plug. Some more. Very seldom less. I’m pretty fast at it now. I have taken them down flush to the wood surface but man it is tricky. Not the best way. The best way is leave the plug a 1/32 high and use a sanding block to take it flat to the wood surface.

-Cutting plugs. When you cut plugs the orientation of the grain of the wood is important. You want the grain either parallel to the top of the plug or vertically oriented to the top of the plug. Angled grain often will not chisel off flush. Cut the plugs correctly and you will reward yourself when you chisel off the plugs.

-Plugging is fun but it takes practice. I’ve boogered up plenty but the key is to go back and fix it right. That’s how you learn and get better. Learing to repair your mistakes is an essential woodworking skill...even for the exceptionally talented. Even the most accomplished make mistakes.

Enjoy the learning. That’s really the reward. Almost everything you do on a boat, every skill you gain or improve or refine is transferable in at least one if not many ways to some other endeavor in your life.

Best of luck on your boat.

[Watkins26]

It has been some time, but thank you for these posts. They are very informative.

JCW