Repair or Replace Teak Coamings?

[MHBsailor]

Greetings, the long New England winters give me plenty to think about restoring a Typhoon Senior and tonight's thoughts are about the teak coamings. As you can see below, the port teak coaming has a crack in it. I'm not sure if it can be repaired, or if it will need to be replaced. If it needs to be replaced, should I stick with teak, or switch to another wood such as Mahogany (and perhaps upset some purists)? A good part of the decision comes down to how the wood will be finished. I don't want to have to constantly maintain it with teak oil, so that means either using something like Epifanes Clear Gloss Varnish or Cetol Marine Light, as I've read that teak doesn't hold varnish well. Wondering what you have found that produces great looking brightwork but is also durable in the intense summer sun. Thanks!

[robh]

I had a very similar issue with my CD28. The port side combing had developed a crack all the way from the stern to the winch stands 2/3rds of the way up. I didn't want to switch from teak, or I expected to be annoyed by it not matching starboard combing. Pricing teak replacement was NOT cheap, since its a 8 ft length with 7" to 10" wide.

Basically I removed it from the boat, drilled the end of the crack to stop it spreading, and then filled the crack with wood glue and teak sawdust. I was paranoid, so I slapped a couple of metal bands over the crack to hold it closer together.

I used teak oil for the first year of ownership, but it either dries out or tends to weep in direct sunlight so it comes off on clothing when you lean against it (non ideal for the combing, but fine for the toe rail and the like.) So I went ahead and just varnished the cockpit combing, even though I haven't varnished the rails or anything else quite yet.

[John Stone]

BHI
That's a tough one. You can repair it but you need to remove the coaming first. That's a pretty grimy coaming so you'll need to clean it with a two part teak cleaner like Te-Ka before you repair it.

You can try using thickened epoxy to glue it back together but you'll need to varnish it as epoxy does not do well in direct sunlight. The epoxy will also discolor from UV if not varnished. You need to paint it or varnish or use some other coating. Or you could cut the cracked section out and glue in another piece. That's probably what I'd do, but I can't say for certain without seeing it.

You are right that a teak replacement will be shockingly expensive. Teak is $25-$30 a BF. That is why I replaced the coamings on the Far Reach with Mahogany. About 1/4 the cost of Burmese teak. But mahogany has to be varnished. And varnish requires religious maintenance. We reapply varnish every 3-4 months. You can get by with less if you keep the coamings covered.

Here is a link to our coaming replacement project. Scroll down till you find it. Maybe there is some useful info for you there.

http://www.farreachvoyages.com/projects ... mings.html

Varnish is not that much work but you must do it on schedule as once the surface is compromised you are more or less screwed and will have to strip it off and start over. Done right, exterior varnish requires a minimum of 7-8 coats. 10 is better. Then apply 1-2 coats every 3-4 months. And yes, you have to sand between every coat. Other board members prefer other coatings and perhaps they will chime in.

Teak takes varnish fine. But you need to abrade it with more coarse sandpaper than other woods. I typically never go higher than 180-220 on exterior teak.

Put a bare teak cap on it and it will last longer than if you varnish over the top edge.

I suspect it cracked because it dried out and was held secure by fasteners in the deck and the winch bases. The wood could not expand and contract. If left bare, the teak will do better with a saltwater washdown every couple days. The salt holds the moisture in. The general rule is to never use a scrub brush on any bare wood.

[MHBsailor]

Rob and John, thank so much for taking the time to post replies. Rob - I like your idea about drilling the end of the crack to stop it from spreading further, and then filling the crack with wood glue and teak sawdust. John, thanks for the advice and link to your website - very impressive! I am partial to finished wood, so I find your approach of a bare teak coaming top interesting.

I am wondering if using a 2-part teak cleaner is necessary if I also use coarse sandpaper, or do I need to clean it first before sanding? Also, is there a way to remove the little teak plug over each fastener so that it can be saved and reused? Or should I plan on just buying some new ones? I'm definitely going to see if I can salvage the teak, but if I can't, think that I would replace the cockpit coamings with Mahogany. I hope that wouldn't offend any purists!

[John Stone]

BHI.
Can't save the plugs to reuse. By a Fuller 3/8" tapered plug cutter and you can make your own plugs if you have a drill press--even a very small one.

You can't sand all that out, not should you. A two part cleaner like Te-Ka will make the teak look like new. Then sand it smooth.

Forget the purist. Make no apologies. It's your boat. Classic style fits best with our boats but anything you change can be corrected later. Teak is not necessary. Though I happen to love teak, lots of great classic boats never used teak. Doug Fir was a standard decking material, and still is, in the the NW. Lots of wood boats had canvas covered decks. I think they are making a come back.

Good luck.

[MHBsailor]

Thanks again John. What grit sandpaper do you suggest? And should I use more than one grit on the bare wood before the first coat (which I imagine needs to be cut with mineral spirits so it soaks in)? JD

[John Stone]

After it is cleaned and repaired then sand. My experience is with Epifanes High Gloss so my comments relate specifically to that varnish. After you clean the teak it will be very rough and have lot's of grooves because it was heavily weathered. Give it a couple days to dry before you start sanding. Tape off the fiberglass edges so you don't scratch the gelcoat or paint. I use 3M 233 tape exclusively. You can leave the tape on for a couple three days or three coats of varnish, then you have to remove the tape and reapply.

Probably start off sanding with 120. Also sand with a block or power sander. I use both a finish sander and a RO at times but mostly use a hand block. I'd then go to 180 until you are satisfied that it is smooth--no grooves or ridges.



Then apply the first coat of varnish cut 50 percent. That is 1:1 ratio varnish to mineral spirits. You can apply the second coat cut about 25 percent, without sanding, four hours later. But, if you wait till the next day you have to sand.

Next day sand with 180 again, lay the varnish on straight or thinned max 10 percent. Now you apply a coat a day sanding between every coat. Teak needs a good tooth for varnish to adhere well. So, I'd stay with 180 or a max of 220 for exterior teak. Just scuff sand the teak (you want to build up the thickness of the varnish and not sand it off) and apply another coat. But you have to sand all of it. Don't leave any shiny areas. The varnish won't adhere well if the surfaced is not scratched.

Also, sand with the grain--always. for corners wrap sand paper around a putty knife. Don't let the varnish build up in the corners.

After about four coats sand more aggressive to flatten out any unevenness in the surface. Then go back to light sanding between coats. Around coat seven or eight aggressive sand again. Apply your final coat when you have had enough of sanding and varnishing.

I don't know how much experience you have applying varnish. If you don't have a lot of experience it may sound like a lot of work and it is somewhat. But, it's not hard. The more you do it the less difficult and time consuming it is.

I recommend you get a copy of Rebecca Wittman's excellent book: Brightwork, the Art of Finishing Wood.

[hilbert]

In my experience, untreated fiberglass does not do well in sunlight.
Some of this can be attributed to the relatively thin layer of resin that coats the surface.
The surface of the resin becomes discolored, brittle and eventually the cloth becomes exposed.

When filling holes and cracks, very little of the volume or the repair is actually exposed to direct sunlight.
For this reason, I decided that I would not treat the surface of this coaming that has been repaired with epoxy thickened with wood flour.
I will let it weather and monitor it to see how it fares:

[Jerry Hammernik]

As usual John Stone is right on. His website speaks for itself. I use a slightly different and easier method. I find the results are pretty good. I use 80 and 150 grit to sand. (after the two part teak cleaner in your case). I use Epifanes Rapid Clear for 5 coats. The advantage is that you don't have to sand between coats. So your starting point is important. Then I do a light sanding before switching to Epifanes Wood Finish Gloss. I add 3 coats of that. Again it's not necessary to sand between coats, provided you stay within the specified times. With an annual maintenance coat it will last for years.

[John Stone]

Jerry
I agree varnish work takes a rediculously amount of time, especially when you have to start from scratch. My concern with not sanding between coats, and believe me I would love to find a simpler way, is that regardless how smooth you think you are applying the varnish, it won't be perfectly flat because of the underlying build up of varnish. The more you have imperfections the more they attract further imperfections. Sanding, while somewhat laborious, ensures the imperfections don't get away from you. The bigger area of concern to me with not sanding is inside corners. The corners are the real truth teller. Varnish tends to gather and pool there. Sanding in the corners, with abrasive paper wrapped around the flat sharp edge of a putty knife keeps the corners clear of excess varnish. By sanding often, when you get to the final coat, at least you have a flat smooth crip surface to work with.

I have learned to finally enjoy varnishing though I have mostly eliminated all varnish topside except for the coamings and bowsprit. So it's manageable. And I added a sunbrella cover for my bowsprit to protect it, though it's the easiest thing to varnish. The coamings are tough. No good way to protect them though the bare teak cap helps a lot. So I have to keep up with them.

There is just no perfect way to do it. Every approach seems to be a compromise. I guess in the end the best way is the way that works for you. But even then, we all reserve the right to change our minds.

[Jim Walsh]

All of my topside brightwork was applied strictly adhering to the twenty foot rule. When viewed from twenty feet the imperfections are difficult to ascertain. Beyond twenty feet it looks somewhat presentable, which is exactly the look I strive to attain

[adamganz]

A quick response to the original post. I had similar splitting of my coaming boards. Last season I carefully drilled vertically from the top down the center through the split in five locations using a 10” long bit. I then inserted a SS rod smothered in two part epoxy in each hole. This has held up pretty well after a year so I plan to sand and varnish the coamings this summer.

Meanwhile I have a line on some inexpensive teak just in case I need to replace it all. Does anybody know the original thickness of the coaming boards? Was it 1”?

[adamganz]

See towards end of this discussion for photos of interested.

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... 0&start=30

[John Stone]

Last season I carefully drilled vertically from the top down the center through the split in five locations using a 10” long bit. I then inserted a SS rod smothered in two part epoxy in each hole.

That is a very clever solution.

[bhartley]

I second the rod solution (combined with the hole at the end of the crack to keep it from spreading). I reused the drill bit and leftover rod to shore up a wonky teak cockpit grate.