Rebeding Ports

[Skylark]

Big Improvement!

[Skylark]

More...

[Skylark]

More...

[Skylark]

and more...

[Skylark]

still more...

[Skylark]

more...

[Skylark]

A warm dry cabin.

[Jim Walsh]

That's a big project. Glad you are satisfied with the results and, most importantly, leak free

[John Ring]

Very neat & clean - well done!

Removing & re-bedding all the ports is still on the to-do list for Tiara.

John

[John Stone]

I don’t think quality control is the issue. I think what we sometimes see on our boats is the result of production building practices of the time. When I hear people complain about the quality of construction on a CD I always respond with ”compared to whom?” Let’s talk about aircraft or automobile construction practices or home building techniques. The boat building industry struggles with the same issue as everyone else when it comes to finding qualified, reliable workers that take pride in everything they do. Let’s talk about accountants that drive cost cutting decisions so companies improve “the bottom line.” I am reminded of the huge lawsuits GM settled over airbag deployment issues because they wanted to save a few pennies and installed a cheaper, ultimately, defective ignition switch. Custom boats have many of the same issues as production boats.

Let’s not forget our boats are mostly 30-45 years old old. Often they have not been that well maintained in the first place. Few of these boats have lived lives under cover from the elements—blazing sun, freezing winters and the cycling stress of freeze-thaw weather extremes. Then let’s throw in the corrosive salt water environment in which they live day-in and day-out and top it off with the incredible loads imposed on our boats by the rigors of sailing.

After completely gutting the Far Reach and rebuilding her from a bare hull over six years there is nothing about her build I did not learn. There were a few areas that aggravated me at the time. But as I sailed her, gained more offshore experience, and matured as a builder, I began to see all the things Cape Dory did right. I would challenge anyone that wants to argue these are not robust, well built, strong, handsome, good sailing sea-boats.

Regarding the ports. There would be no water damage to the interior plywood if owners properly rebedded the trim rings at the first sign of trouble. But, most owners do not do anything until the damage is done. How many times have people suggested to concerned owners wanting to address an issue to “save your money and buy beer and go sailing instead.” Sail now and worry about problems later leads us down a slippery slope. There is no free ride to owning a boat if you want to keep her in good shape.

When I bought the Far Reach she was 19 years old and had been rode hard (she is 35 years old now). All the port lights leaked. The 1/4” marine ply along the interior of the cabin sides was water damaged and rotted. Though a drastic measure and not something I would recommend to most owners, I eventually cut the entire head liner out of the boat. I did not like the liner. In place of the liner under the portlights, I installed 1/2” marine grade mahogany plywood. I rebuilt the port holes too before we reinstalled the portlights.

I think it’s a mistake to bed under the port light flange on the inside of the boat. The bedding should take place under the trim ring. If water gets past the trim ring, I want to know so I can address it immediately. If we bed under the inside flange and water gets past the trim ring we may not see it till the damage has already occurred. Though, for a time, all may look well, in reality water leaks between the cabin side and the liner (there is an air gap there on many of the boats). Any water that is allowed to get in behind the trim ring and into the fiberglass can also freeze and crack the fiberglass. The water can soak into the back side of the ply and rot it. It also runs down the space between the liner and the cabin side and then along the gap between the liner and the under side of the side deck and ultimately drips down the inside of the hull soaking our tools and clothing in the process. There is a similar problem with the eyebrow trim, but I digress.

There are techniques to bedding the portlight trim-ring properly if you want to avoid leaks. The gap around the spigot needs to be slightly enlarged so bedding (butyl is a good choice) can be forced into the gap. Then the trim ring is loaded with 3M 4000 UV or similar sika-flex product before it is installed. I agree that silicon is a terrible product for bedding almost anything on a boat. Another point. If you bed under the interior flange and you have a leak and want to remove the portlight, you can expect a high probability of destroying the plywood in the process.

Here is a link to the details of how we rebuilt the portlights and reinstalled them on the Far Reach. It may not be the only way to do it, but it has worked very well for us.

http://www.farreachvoyages.com/projects ... ights.html

[John Ring]

Beautiful work John, as always. And I agree; while none are perfect, our boats are more right than most boats.

Holiday Best,
John Ring
CD36 Tiara

[Skylark]

The plywood hid the leaks for years. The same is true for all boats that use this type of trim.

By reshaping the opening to provide some clearance between the port and the fiberglass butyl rubber is force out the opening to the outside and even through the screw holes. The port basically floats in butyl rubber. This also seals any gap between the liner and coach roof.

Yes, production techniques have improved and, I certainly understand that a factory will not afford the time and care that we put into our own boats. Still there is workmanship and, Cape Dory used "...a standard of value" and other phrases to market workmanship that was not there.

No doubts here, the hull design is sound. That not to say improvements can't be made in the execution.

[Jim Walsh]

I have the same trim but have never had a leaking port. There is also no visual evidence that my ports have ever been removed and rebedded. If I'm just lucky I hope my lucky streak continues.

[John Stone]

The plywood does not hide the leaks, the liner hides the leaks. I am not a fan of the liner. But a lot of people like it.

Skyler, help me better understand what you are saying because what I am hearing you say is the value and workmanship of the Cape Dory is what? Low? Substandard? That can't be what you are saying so I must be misunderstanding you.

If that is what you are saying then I disagree and ask "compared to whom"?

I can't think of another production boat that has held up as well over the years as the Cape Dory boats. A standard of value does not mean the best money can buy. It means the best bang for your buck. It's a subjective statement but I think it's widely viewed as reasonably accurate. John Kretchmer, with over 300,000 sea miles has suggested the Cape Dory is a very good blue water boat that is well made and a good value and he said that after saying he is not a fan of full keel boats.

Cape Dorys have proven to be very tough. The rigs are nearly indestructible. I have never heard of a rudder failure. I don't recall ever reading or hearing about a CD sinking due to structural failure. They respond well to maintenance and are reasonably easy to work on. The materials, for the time were pretty much top of the line. They have a great Owners Forum. While they are not perfect and have a few dirty secrets, I'd call that a standard of value.

If you want to denigrate your boat that's your choice. But I don't feel that way about my boat.

[Skylark]

John, I'm just being open about what is actually there. That way I can correct the problems. I've also found others have the same issues. Having a wet berth at sea is not pleasant. I just believe the reputation that sold me on Cape Dory many years ago deserves a reality check.

I don't like the liner either and more the way it was done (a workmanship issue). Using simple template to cut the openings would have made big difference. My repairs need to be practical. I've lived on Skylark since 2011. She is my home. Gutting the inside is not possible. What you have done with Far Reach is awesome and I've learned a lot from what you have shared.

I am also in the process of looking for a larger boat. I can assure you it will not be one of those newer production boats. Sometimes, I dream about rebuilding one of the Cape Dory 40's. Then the reality of work that would take...