Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roof

[Steve Laume]

The dedicated winches to cam cleats is necessary for lines that will need constant adjustment. Thus two winches for the main and staysail sheets. If you are going to be running the lines aft for your main halyard and reef lines then one winch with rope clutches would be a great solution, if bringing all those lines back is a good idea in the first place.

With the sheets in the cam cleats, it is easy to flick them out and pull or ease a bit and then snug back down in the cleat. You will not need this feature for what you are planning to do, Steve.

[Sea Hunt Video]

David:

Thanks for the photo. That is exactly what I was thinking of installing, only on the starboard side. I was thinking of a three (3) line clutch (main halyard, primary and secondary reef lines). I did not know they came color coded.

I am now leaning towards NOT installing a teak base plate for the winch or the line clutch. I will have to see exactly how much of a curve the cabin roof is. I know it is curved just not sure how much. David, your "curve" seems to be minimal, but she is a CD 31 not a CD 25D. I think the curve is more pronounced on a CD 25D.

Another question: I am dreading (read scared #@%* ) of drilling holes in the cabin roof. I am not sure if the cabin roof on a Cape Dory 25D on the starboard side near the bulkhead is solid fiberglass or fiberglass and balsa core. Anyone know the answer

I also have to drill holes for the turning blocks installation and the line clutch both of which will be well forward of the cabin bulkhead. Anyone know if this area is solid fiberglass or balsa core and fiberglass

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, recommendations and photos. VERY, VERY HELPFUL

[Sea Hunt Video]

Today I did some soft "tapping" around various areas of the cabin roof on the starboard side as a preliminary step to getting up the courage to start drilling holes for a main halyard winch, line clutches and fairleads.

While tapping it "sounded" like the aft end of the cabin roof near the cockpit bulkhead was solid; that is, no "liner". I am assuming either solid fiberglass or fiberglass-balsa-fiberglass.

Can anyone confirm which

Equally important, can anyone confirm if there is a "liner" in this area of the cabin roof

Finally in/on the cabin roof more forward near the mast it "sounded" much less solid. A friend (and Cape Dory owner) has suggested that there is a "liner" on the inside of the cabin that is separated from the more solid roof by about a 1" space or gap.

I was thinking of installing a backing plate on the ceiling in the interior of the cabin for both the line clutch and the fairleads. Assuming there is this 1" space/gap what is the best way to install the backing plates without compressing the "liner" up into the cabin roof and creating a large dent

[Sea Hunt Video]

I forgot to add an additional piece of information from my efforts today.

The cabin roof on S/V Bali Ha'i has a very substantial "curve" near the cabin/cockpit bulkhead. I tried to measure the angle of curvature but was not able to do so with any degree of precision.

However, as stated, the angle is substantial - not at all like the cabin roofs on Jim W.'s and David M.'s CD 31. I am considering buying the teak plates referenced in Steve Bryant's post:

http://www.amazon.com/Whitecap-Teak-Ang ... B00GXVJE0C

at least for the winch if not the line clutch and fairlead parts.

I am "on the fence" between trying to level out the winch just a little (the curvature is substantial) or installing the winch on an angle. Importantly because there is a small distance between the edge of the roof near the cabin hatch and the starboard edge of the roof (10"), and the curvature is so substantial, there is no place where the roof is "flat" so that the winch can be installed without "gaps" between the winch base and the cabin roof.

I am thinking that I will have to install a winch pad to make a "flat" surface for the winch base regardless.

Any and all thoughts, suggestions, etc., will be much appreciated. This is all very new to me and drilling holes in my sailboat is downright scary.

Thanks

[Neil Gordon]

>>While tapping it "sounded" like the aft end of the cabin roof near the cockpit bulkhead was solid; that is, no "liner". I am assuming either solid fiberglass or fiberglass-balsa-fiberglass.<<

Two separate things. The cabin top is a structural part of the boat; the liner is pure decoration. So the cabin top might be solid or cored (likely cored), and that's what the winch attaches to... actually, the winch attaches to the backing plate.

Presuming there's a liner, I'd cut an access port. (You'll know exactly where it goes once you drill the holes through.) That will give you best access for installing a backing plate and bolting the new winch, etc., in place. When you're done, cover the hole with a piece of decorative teak.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Does anyone happen to know of an online website that provides a "how to" install a deck winch (measuring and drilling holes, installing backing plate, sealant, cover for backing plate etc.)

Or, even better, anyone know of a "how to" book to do the above

The first thing I did was to go to Maine Sail's website that has 50+ "how to" articles, photos, etc. Sadly, nothing on installing winch on a deck. I also tried searching Mr. Google but could not find anything that I was comfortable following. With Maine Sail's "How To" articles I knew I could just follow them to the letter and all would work out right.

Any help much appreciated.

Also, if anyone has any interior photos of how you covered up the backing plate and bolts, etc. that would also be very helpful. I am sort of flying blind here.

I am trying to get things ordered, lined up and ready to install. I am still planning on hauling out the beginning of July and working on the deck winch, line clutch and fairleads as well as cleaning and servicing the seacocks. Every time I am in the engine compartment I look at the seacocks and wonder "how the HE[double hockey sticks] am I going to be able to remove them and reinstall them I can barely reach in to touch them let alone remove bolts, nuts, etc.

[Gary M]

FWIW this is my proceedure for drilling through my cabin top:

1) Mark where you want the holes to be.
2) Select the drill bit to be used.
3) Slowly start drilling your hole.
4) Stop immediately if your drill bit produces wood shavings. You now know your cabin top is cored.
(If no wood shavings appear, continue drilling completely through.)
5) If cored, remove your drill bit.
6) Get a finish mail and bend the pointy end to a 90 degree angle no longer then what you can slide into the hole you just drilled.
7) Chuck the finish nail into your drill, slide the nail into the hole, and pull the trigger on the drill motor.
8) Clean out as much of the wood core as your hooked nail can reach.
9) Clean out any wood left in the hole with a vacuum cleaner.
10) Mix up a small amount of West System epoxy.
11) Fill the hole you just drilled with epoxy. (Since you did not drill all the way through your cabin top, you do not have to worry about epoxy dripping down into your boat's interior.) You now have a protective ring around the core.
Let the epoxy set up overnight.
12) Re drill your hole through the hardened epoxy.

The remaining core now has an epoxy ring to protect it from moisture in the future.

Good Luck

[Sea Hunt Video]

Gary:

Thanks Very helpful. I seem to recall doing pretty much what you outlined when I installed two very small cam cleats on my Ty Weekender. Installing a large winch, base, fair leads, line clutch, etc. is a MUCH MORE daunting task. Each day I shift back and forth between doing it and not doing it. "On the fence" as they say.

[Jim Walsh]

I'd be happy to drill the holes for you. No hesitation on my part as long as it's someone else's boat

[RLW]

IMHO...drilling holes ABOVE THE WATERLINE is no big deal, and easily corrected/reversed if it doesn't work out. West System, a myriad of fiberglass products, and gelcoat (combined with some time and effort) make mistakes disappear completely. Go for it!

[Steve Bryant]

Robert,

Here's a suggestion if you want to verify that you have a head liner and the space available between the deck and the liner before you start drilling. I'm sure you have portlight "dogs" hanging on a chain from your cabin ceiling that attach to the portlights to keep them in the open position.

Remove the screw in the ceiling that mounts the chain for the aft starboard dog and insert a stiff piece of small wire in the screw hole until it hits the underside of the deck. Either mark the wire or grasp it with your fingers as close to the ceiling as you can. Remove the wire and measure the distance from the end of the wire to your mark or fingers to determine the space you have available. On my CD 25 the distance is 1 1/2" and the liner is 1/8" thick which means I have a 1 1/4" space between the liner and the deck.

If you determine you have a space between the deck and the liner, then you will need to cut an appropriate size hole in the liner to access the underside of the deck to mount the backing plate directly to the underside of the deck.

As far as mounting the winch, rope clutch, and deck organizer, here is what I would suggest:

1. Select a backing plate material. This can be made of 1/2" FRP, 1/2" marine plywood, 1/2" Starboard, 1/8" aluminum plate, etc.

2. Place the winch base on the backing material and use a marker or pencil to trace the outline of the base and the bolt hole locations. You can then cut the material to the correct diameter and drill the holes for the winch mounting bolts. Use the same method for your deck turning blocks and rope clutches. Much easier to do off the boat.

3. Position the winch base or hardware on the deck where you wish to locate them. Use your portlights and/or the top of your companionway hatch boards as a baseline to take measurements from both the interior and exterior to locate where the backing plates for the winch and other hardware will land on the interior. Adjust as necessary to make sure you will have access from below.

4. Drill your holes using the excellent advice in Gary's earlier reply. The only thing I would add is to counter sink the holes so that you can get a good amount of sealant around the bolts when you mount them. Drill the holes all the way through the deck and liner so that you can see where to cut the access holes. Use a hole saw large enough for your winch backing plate go through.

5. Use a good polysulfide sealant or butyl rubber tape to bed the winch base and hardware when you mount them making sure you get the sealant in the countersunk holes you made where the bolts penetrate.

6. From below, apply sealant around the bolts where they penetrate the deck prior to installing the backing plate. Apply sealant to the backing plate and install using large fender washers in lieu of regular washers, lock washers and nuts. It is possible to use several large fender washers in lieu of the backing plates since the loads are mostly lateral, but the backing plates spread the load better and I think is the preferred installation method.

7. You will have to make an appropriate sized cover plate, preferably out of teak, to cover any access hole you had to cut nto the liner.

l can email you some photos if you would like.

Hope this helps.

Good Luck,

[Sea Hunt Video]

Steve:

Thanks very much for the very helpful and detailed instructions and suggestions. I am still not sure if I want to take on this task. It would mean drilling a LOT of holes in my pretty little boat. If I do, it will be with your instructions by my side.

Steve, if you have "go by" photos, etc. I would be very grateful if you could email them to me. I will send you a PM with my email address. Thanks

Happy Father's Day to all Dads, Granddads, Godfathers, stepdads, etc.

[Sea Hunt Video]

I found this website which seems to incorporate much of what Steve B. and Gary M. have recommended.

http://www.soundingsonline.com/features ... ored-decks

Of course, it also incorporates my friend Jim W.'s willingness to drill holes in other sailors boats

Jim, on your sail back stateside, assuming you do not decide to take up permanent residency in Bermuda, perhaps you could sail into Miami and drill some holes in S/V Bali Ha'i.

[Jim Walsh]

Of course, it also incorporates my friend Jim W.'s willingness to drill holes in other sailors boats

Jim, on your sail back stateside, assuming you do not decide to take up permanent residency in Bermuda, perhaps you could sail into Miami and drill some holes in S/V Bali Ha'i.

Your invitation is sooooooo tempting
As far as taking up residency, I paid the customs duty of $35.00 upon entry and I'm a guest for the next 90 days. It's not going to be easy returning to the People's Republic of Connecticut aka the Tax You To (and after) Death State

[tjr818]

Here is an additional thing to plan for when drilling holes through the cabin top. I was somewhat prepared for this, but next time I will use Play-Dough to build a dam around the holes and drill right through the Play-Dough. My masking tape dam was only partially successful.

The slope is a bit exaggerated but it does give an idea of what to expect. I used a very free flowing System 3 epoxy so that it would flow into the surrounding balsa.

Hole in Cabin Top 1.jpeg