Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roof
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roof
I have decided that one of my "hoped for" projects this Summer is to install a main halyard winch on the cabin roof along with a Garhauer fairlead (accepting 3 lines)(not sure if this is the right nautical term) so that I can raise/lower the main from the cockpit, similar to what Warren K. did on S/V Sine Qua Non
http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... 98#p170998
The cabin roof on the CD 25D has a curve to it. I would like the winch and fairlead to be level and not "tilted". To do this I think I have to make teak blocks that are curved to the curvature of the cabin roof. See the photos of Flyboy's CD 28 in this thread:
http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... 60#p184060
This is what I want to try to do.
I can buy a rounded piece of teak as a plate that would be 7" in diam and 2" thick. I would welcome thoughts on the best way to work with this teak in order to allow it to follow the curve of the cabin roof. The company from whom I will buy the teak (located in Marathon, Fl.) is very nice but they do not want to take on the task of "form fitting" their teak plates to the cabin roof.
Any and all suggestions, thoughts, step-by-step directions, etc., would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... 98#p170998
The cabin roof on the CD 25D has a curve to it. I would like the winch and fairlead to be level and not "tilted". To do this I think I have to make teak blocks that are curved to the curvature of the cabin roof. See the photos of Flyboy's CD 28 in this thread:
http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... 60#p184060
This is what I want to try to do.
I can buy a rounded piece of teak as a plate that would be 7" in diam and 2" thick. I would welcome thoughts on the best way to work with this teak in order to allow it to follow the curve of the cabin roof. The company from whom I will buy the teak (located in Marathon, Fl.) is very nice but they do not want to take on the task of "form fitting" their teak plates to the cabin roof.
Any and all suggestions, thoughts, step-by-step directions, etc., would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Fair winds,
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Roberto,
What type of power tools do you have ( or have access to)? Just clamping a 7" round base presents a few problems. The simplest might be to clamp the teak base in an appropriate vise and take a belt sander to the bottom side. Slow, but many chances to stop for a fit check. Several tools would be faster, but they would not leave much room for error. A band saw would make quick work of it - once you built a proper method to hold the teak firmly. I imagine that you are talking about a $50.00 piece of teak.
What type of power tools do you have ( or have access to)? Just clamping a 7" round base presents a few problems. The simplest might be to clamp the teak base in an appropriate vise and take a belt sander to the bottom side. Slow, but many chances to stop for a fit check. Several tools would be faster, but they would not leave much room for error. A band saw would make quick work of it - once you built a proper method to hold the teak firmly. I imagine that you are talking about a $50.00 piece of teak.
Tim
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Tim and all:
I have a random orbital sander (DeWalt) and a Dremel Multitool. I have other tools such as a drill but I doubt they will be of much use.
My plan was (is) to use paper to create/trace the curve of the roof, transfer the paper curve to cardboard and then trace the cardboard curvature onto the teak plate. Is there a better way
Once the teak plate has the curvature traced, then use the Dremel Multitool to "rough out" the shape/curvature; then the ROS to smooth it; finally, the Dremel Multitool sander to finish sand. Is there a better way
Each piece of hardware (fairleads; line clutch & winch) will also need a backing plate on the inside of the cabin roof in addition to the teak plate on the roof deck. I would like to find a way to do this so that the bolts, washers and nuts are not exposed inside the cabin; sort of like a cover plate but not sure how to do this. Thoughts
I have a random orbital sander (DeWalt) and a Dremel Multitool. I have other tools such as a drill but I doubt they will be of much use.
My plan was (is) to use paper to create/trace the curve of the roof, transfer the paper curve to cardboard and then trace the cardboard curvature onto the teak plate. Is there a better way
Once the teak plate has the curvature traced, then use the Dremel Multitool to "rough out" the shape/curvature; then the ROS to smooth it; finally, the Dremel Multitool sander to finish sand. Is there a better way
Each piece of hardware (fairleads; line clutch & winch) will also need a backing plate on the inside of the cabin roof in addition to the teak plate on the roof deck. I would like to find a way to do this so that the bolts, washers and nuts are not exposed inside the cabin; sort of like a cover plate but not sure how to do this. Thoughts
Fair winds,
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Roberto,
Years ago I watched a skilled boat worker install a winch on my 30ft brand X boat's boom. It needed a teak pad as well.
He made it look easy using a belt sander to sand a curve in the underside of the teak pad. He would sand a little, then do a trail fit then sand some more and repeat until he liked the fit.
Years later I tried the same technique and was amazed at how well it worked out and how easy it was for me.
I also added deck hardware on my CD22 and like you I wanted to cover the bolts in the cabin top below. Ace hardware has some white plastic caps but they didn't carry them in a size big enough for my project. I ended up getting some pieces of scrap off white plastic from a local provider. I cut out the size I needed to fit a spacer and then a cap. I glued the spacer and cap together with plastic glue and secured them to the fiberglass liner with adhesive sealer. I believe it was boat life but any will due.
They're not perfect, but they do a pretty good job of cleaning up the final project.
Good Luck
Gary
Years ago I watched a skilled boat worker install a winch on my 30ft brand X boat's boom. It needed a teak pad as well.
He made it look easy using a belt sander to sand a curve in the underside of the teak pad. He would sand a little, then do a trail fit then sand some more and repeat until he liked the fit.
Years later I tried the same technique and was amazed at how well it worked out and how easy it was for me.
I also added deck hardware on my CD22 and like you I wanted to cover the bolts in the cabin top below. Ace hardware has some white plastic caps but they didn't carry them in a size big enough for my project. I ended up getting some pieces of scrap off white plastic from a local provider. I cut out the size I needed to fit a spacer and then a cap. I glued the spacer and cap together with plastic glue and secured them to the fiberglass liner with adhesive sealer. I believe it was boat life but any will due.
They're not perfect, but they do a pretty good job of cleaning up the final project.
Good Luck
Gary
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Ocean Springs, MS
Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Roberto,
FWIW, Whitecap makes an angled winch pad in various diameters that is canted at 15 degrees if you just want to get the winch more "level". At the least it would give you a better starting point for any further modifications.
http://www.amazon.com/Whitecap-Teak-Ang ... B00GXVJE0C
Good Luck,
FWIW, Whitecap makes an angled winch pad in various diameters that is canted at 15 degrees if you just want to get the winch more "level". At the least it would give you a better starting point for any further modifications.
http://www.amazon.com/Whitecap-Teak-Ang ... B00GXVJE0C
Good Luck,
Steve Bryant
"Elan" 1981 CD25 #815
"Elan" 1981 CD25 #815
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Tape a full sheet of sandpaper on your cabin top where you plan on locating the winch. Slide the teak pad back and forth on the paper. Slow, yes. But you'll end up with a perfect fit. Or, scrap the teak idea and make an epoxy pad (painted) the way West System describes it in their manuals (Google-able).
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Gary, Steve, Sarah, Jeff and all:
Gary, thanks for suggestion. That is kind of what I was thinking I would do.
Steve, I checked the Whitecap website. That looks interesting. I will try to determine what the angle is for the cabin roof on S/V Bali Ha'i. If it is close to 15 degrees those may save me a lot of sanding effort. I will need to determine if it is "level" or "flat". The price is much cheaper than the shop down in Marathon, Fl.
Sarah and Jeff, that is a nice idea. My plan right now is to "rough sand" with a ROS and then try the idea of taping down some 60 sand paper and sliding the teak plate "back and forth". Thanks
Gary, thanks for suggestion. That is kind of what I was thinking I would do.
Steve, I checked the Whitecap website. That looks interesting. I will try to determine what the angle is for the cabin roof on S/V Bali Ha'i. If it is close to 15 degrees those may save me a lot of sanding effort. I will need to determine if it is "level" or "flat". The price is much cheaper than the shop down in Marathon, Fl.
Sarah and Jeff, that is a nice idea. My plan right now is to "rough sand" with a ROS and then try the idea of taping down some 60 sand paper and sliding the teak plate "back and forth". Thanks
Fair winds,
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Robert,
What you want to do it a pretty straight forward project. I would think well within your abilities. The best most accurate method is to scribe the line then use a power planer and/or a belt sander. However, I don't think it is really necessary unless you have some specific reason for wanting the winch plumb. Raising lines up too far off the deck can make a tripping hazard and often times hardware looks better if it's outline is in concert with the curve of the deck. Personal choice I guess. I think the pad for the winch only needs to be a little bit larger in diameter than the base of the winch. Even a 1/4" to 3/8" proud of the base is plenty. By keeping the pads smaller you don't need as thick of a pad to compensate for the curve of the deck and you fasteners will not need to be as long either.
Nonetheless, I have done this a number of times on my boat. I know I have documented this technique in several places on my web site but I could not find exactly what I was looking for (I am fully engaged at the moment) though this should give you an idea of how to do it.
http://www.farreachvoyages.com/dailylog ... rch13.html Scroll to the 22 Jan 2013 entry and there should be a few photos and a description.
http://www.farreachvoyages.com/projects ... eater.html This is the project page for the Refleks heater install. If you scroll down part way I used the same technique for the teak pad for the smoke head.
The short version is to get a small piece of wood (the same length as your prospective pad) and a small level--a torpedo level or line level is perfect. Lay it on the deck where you wan the pad to be. raise the outboard end until it's level then put some wedges under it to hold it in place. Measure the height the outboard end is above the deck. Allow for the appropriate thickness at the end board end and that will inform you as to how thick the teak needs to be.
Acquire your teak (you can laminate two thicknesses together if necessary). Next, take the teak and lay it on the deck and then use the wedges to raise it up so the top is level. Then, use a compass to scribe the curve of the deck directly on the side of the teak pad. Keep the compass plumb that is don't keep it at a right angle to the curve of the deck. Do both sides. Remove the teak, flip it over and remove the excess with a power planer, spoke shave, belt sander. Or cut kerfs and chisel the waste out then sand smooth to just short of the two scribe lines. If you are having trouble clamping the teak to the table to cut the excess you and use double sided tape. Anyway, test fit and make minor adjustments until you are satisfied.
Nothing to it. You will be surprised what a nice job you can do. If you are unsure use some scrap lumber like an old 2x8 cut off. Its good practice. You can do it in a couple of hours taking your time and stopping for breaks and philosophizing with your neighbor.
Good luck.
What you want to do it a pretty straight forward project. I would think well within your abilities. The best most accurate method is to scribe the line then use a power planer and/or a belt sander. However, I don't think it is really necessary unless you have some specific reason for wanting the winch plumb. Raising lines up too far off the deck can make a tripping hazard and often times hardware looks better if it's outline is in concert with the curve of the deck. Personal choice I guess. I think the pad for the winch only needs to be a little bit larger in diameter than the base of the winch. Even a 1/4" to 3/8" proud of the base is plenty. By keeping the pads smaller you don't need as thick of a pad to compensate for the curve of the deck and you fasteners will not need to be as long either.
Nonetheless, I have done this a number of times on my boat. I know I have documented this technique in several places on my web site but I could not find exactly what I was looking for (I am fully engaged at the moment) though this should give you an idea of how to do it.
http://www.farreachvoyages.com/dailylog ... rch13.html Scroll to the 22 Jan 2013 entry and there should be a few photos and a description.
http://www.farreachvoyages.com/projects ... eater.html This is the project page for the Refleks heater install. If you scroll down part way I used the same technique for the teak pad for the smoke head.
The short version is to get a small piece of wood (the same length as your prospective pad) and a small level--a torpedo level or line level is perfect. Lay it on the deck where you wan the pad to be. raise the outboard end until it's level then put some wedges under it to hold it in place. Measure the height the outboard end is above the deck. Allow for the appropriate thickness at the end board end and that will inform you as to how thick the teak needs to be.
Acquire your teak (you can laminate two thicknesses together if necessary). Next, take the teak and lay it on the deck and then use the wedges to raise it up so the top is level. Then, use a compass to scribe the curve of the deck directly on the side of the teak pad. Keep the compass plumb that is don't keep it at a right angle to the curve of the deck. Do both sides. Remove the teak, flip it over and remove the excess with a power planer, spoke shave, belt sander. Or cut kerfs and chisel the waste out then sand smooth to just short of the two scribe lines. If you are having trouble clamping the teak to the table to cut the excess you and use double sided tape. Anyway, test fit and make minor adjustments until you are satisfied.
Nothing to it. You will be surprised what a nice job you can do. If you are unsure use some scrap lumber like an old 2x8 cut off. Its good practice. You can do it in a couple of hours taking your time and stopping for breaks and philosophizing with your neighbor.
Good luck.
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
John:
Wow Thank you very much. Your post and your website are very helpful. In briefly looking at the photos it looks like exactly what I am going to try to do.
Your thoughts about my carpentry skills are wildly off the mark, but ...........
You did raise one issue that may be of concern to me. If I read your post correctly you are suggesting that I may NOT want to make a base plate for a cabin roof winch that makes the winch "level" instead of "tilted". You suggest that it could cause tripping over lines issues. "Raising lines up too far off the deck can make a tripping hazard and often times hardware looks better if it's outline is in concert with the curve of the deck." Frankly, I had not thought of that.
I would be interested to learn what other members think about the benefits of "leveling" a cabin roof winch versus the dangers of tripping over raised lines, etc.
Thank you again John for your post. Whatever I decide, you website is terrific.
Wow Thank you very much. Your post and your website are very helpful. In briefly looking at the photos it looks like exactly what I am going to try to do.
Your thoughts about my carpentry skills are wildly off the mark, but ...........
You did raise one issue that may be of concern to me. If I read your post correctly you are suggesting that I may NOT want to make a base plate for a cabin roof winch that makes the winch "level" instead of "tilted". You suggest that it could cause tripping over lines issues. "Raising lines up too far off the deck can make a tripping hazard and often times hardware looks better if it's outline is in concert with the curve of the deck." Frankly, I had not thought of that.
I would be interested to learn what other members think about the benefits of "leveling" a cabin roof winch versus the dangers of tripping over raised lines, etc.
Thank you again John for your post. Whatever I decide, you website is terrific.
Fair winds,
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
John is correct. My CD31 has the main and staysail sheets led aft to the cockpit with the respective winches mounted on the cabin top. The lines lay almost touching the deck under a strain and touch the deck when eased. This is the factory installation with no mounting pads at all and aluminum backing plates inside.
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Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Jim:
Thanks. I will reconsider my idea about "leveling" the winch.
The winch I am hoping to install will be a main halyard winch. My plan is to install it on the starboard side of the cabin roof just forward of the cabin bulkhead.
I noticed in your photo that you have "cam cleats" just aft of the winches. I had planned to install "line clutches" forward of the winch.
I would be interested in the thoughts on this board of "cam cleats" versus a "line clutch" for the main halyard. Garhauer makes a line clutch that will accept three (3) lines. My thought was to some day run the primary and secondary reefing lines down the mast and back to the cabin roof.
Any thoughts, suggestions, etc. will be much appreciated.
Thanks. I will reconsider my idea about "leveling" the winch.
The winch I am hoping to install will be a main halyard winch. My plan is to install it on the starboard side of the cabin roof just forward of the cabin bulkhead.
I noticed in your photo that you have "cam cleats" just aft of the winches. I had planned to install "line clutches" forward of the winch.
I would be interested in the thoughts on this board of "cam cleats" versus a "line clutch" for the main halyard. Garhauer makes a line clutch that will accept three (3) lines. My thought was to some day run the primary and secondary reefing lines down the mast and back to the cabin roof.
Any thoughts, suggestions, etc. will be much appreciated.
Fair winds,
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
- tjr818
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Roberto, for what it may be worth, I can trip on a line no matter how far off the deck it might be.Sea Hunt Video wrote:... "Raising lines up too far off the deck can make a tripping hazard and often times hardware looks better if it's outline is in concert with the curve of the deck."
A line that is flat on the deck will roll under foot and that can be just as bad. Know where the lines are, know where your feet are and everything will be okay.
Tim
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
Lines can roll under foot . . . true enough. In the long run, it is often better to not run any lines aft along the cabin top and leave halyards and control lines on the mast. Though neither is preferred, on a dark night, I'd rather step on a line and feel it under my foot than trip over it. In the end, its all about personal choice. What might be right for one person can be wrong for another and vise versa.
Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
A line clutch allows you to hold one line fast to free up a centrally located winch for another line. The cam cleats pictured really take the place of two separate cleats which would have been a little awkward in this application. Cape Dory made the call 31 years ago and got it right. They also used top notch hardware. Those are investment cast stainless Schaefer cam cleats. These have teeth which mesh to ensure both sides of the mechanism work in unison. They are as good today as the day they were installed.Sea Hunt Video wrote:Jim:
I noticed in your photo that you have "cam cleats" just aft of the winches. I had planned to install "line clutches" forward of the winch.
I would be interested in the thoughts on this board of "cam cleats" versus a "line clutch" for the main halyard. .
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
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Re: Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roo
As Jim says, the clutch in front of the winch allows you free the winch for other uses and still hold fast the line. I have clutches for the main halyard, vang, and separate clew and tack reefing lines for two reefing points, as pictured below. Occasionally I have found it necessary to winch down the reefing lines, especially when reefing in a stiff breeze. The clutch on the main halyard makes that possible. The cam cleats secure the staysail sheet. Also, note the missing winch bases!
"If a Man speaks at Sea, where no Woman can hear,
Is he still wrong? " anonymous, Phoenician, circa 500 b.c.
Is he still wrong? " anonymous, Phoenician, circa 500 b.c.