Shaft log hose CD-33 (long sorry)

[doubleb]

Well hello folks’
We have been out of pocket for more reasons than I care to talk about. We still sail Air Raid when we can.
I have some information that might be useful. (I think)
We hauled out Air Raid late October 2013 to do the usual bottom paint and other maintenance that needed to be done. It is at this time I made the corporate decision to pull the MD11C to help with the access for replacing the shaft log hose, cutlass bearing, and of course the stuffing box packing I am sure it is overdue. (read on)
Can this be done with the engine in?
I saw no way to get my big butt in a place that only the brave dare, and the admiral said no way! Hence my decision to pull the engine. (Not fun)
We found all kinds of stuff in the bilge including 2 screwdrivers and one wrench along with 30 years of gook. It was not pretty.
The reason for the long story is the shaft log hose.
After gaining access to never - never land. Only 2 of the four hose clamps for the hose are accessible the aft two are buried under whatever Cape Dory poured in there. (Still working on those) the forward 2 were easy. I reached down to loosen the clamps on the stuffing box and found the hose just a little too easy to move side to side of course the prop and shaft has been removed. Well I wiggled the packing gland a bit just to see how much wiggle I could get.
The hose tore in two with no more effort than it takes to tear off a paper towel. No Kidding!
I was in shock, disbelief, amazed, and holy crap all at the same time. . (Not my exact words they were more colorful)
The other half of the hose is still intact on the shaft log.
I have pictures as soon as I can figure out the posting pics thing.
I could not gain access to the other 2 clamps. I (we) ended up prying from the inside on the clamps and she turned the shaft log a quarter turn at a time from the outside until the hose and clamps were free. The clamps were not your standard worm gear clamps they are Band-It type clamps crimped no screws. (can you say fun)
The hose appears to have never been changed and is in my opinion no way (thick) heavy enough to be in such a location but it lasted this long? Anyway the whole thing is out. I have ordered new hose, clamps, packing, and cutlass from Spartan marine. It should all arrive next week,
Sorry for the long post but for those that have not looked into replacing that nasty little hose. Might give it a second thought, from what I found, the blood sweat and tears were worth it. Now the fun part putting it all together.
Have fun!

[Gary H]

I replaced all of the above on my CD22D this past year. While my hose showed clear signs of wear, it was not as deteriorated as yours apparently was. While you have the engine out, I would recommend that you consider also replacing the prop shaft and the engine mounts. Your 30 year old shaft is probably no longer perfectly straight (increases wear on the cutless bearing) and may have some scoring (increases wear on the stuffing box packing). You will, also, be amazed at the difference between new engine mounts and 30 year old mounts. One thing tends to lead to another but you don't want to ever have to remove the engine again.

Gary

[Steve Laume]

I also removed Raven's engine a few years ago and did the things you are talking about.

I removed the prop and took the shaft out through the engine compartment so as not to disturb the flange. New hose, and cutlass bearing were installed and the area repaired with epoxy. I took the prop and shaft to a prop shop and the guy didn't think the shaft was scored enough to need replacement. What he did recommend was changing the length of the hose slightly so the shaft seal would run in a slightly different spot.

When the engine is out there is no better time to paint and add sound insulation. Definitely replace the engine mounts. I also replaced the oil pan and gasket as it is impossible to paint under there with the engine in place and a rusted out pan could be disastrous. Just for good measure I also replaced the crank shaft main seals and had the starter rebuilt. Just giving the engine a good paint job will make it run better.

I have the Universal engine and took it to my local tractor dealer on a palette in the back of my truck. The guy was able to identify it as a Kabota 600 block and any non marine parts I needed were readily available and about 1/3 the price of the same parts from a marine supplier, Steve.

[Gary H]

Yes, I did the same with my Yanmar 1gm. I brought it to a local tractor mechanic in the trunk of my car. He took it apart, replaced whatever needed replacing and put it back together at a reasonable cost. While I had the engine out, I kept thinking that I did not want to miss something that would result in the need to do this again.

[Zeida]

Doubleb… now that you have the boat out and the engine removed…PLEASE check out the following: Engine mounts. make sure they are not broken and properly bolted to their platforms. If not, your engine may move with the vibration under way and damage the tranny. Change your cutless bearing and put in a new one. Remove the old flax from the stuffing box and put in new one (Goretex pack works best). My CD-33, hull #73, has a Universal M-30 #5424 engine with 3 motor mounts. Below are photos taken from when I did just the same as your project, some years back. It is worth it. Must be done. Also, on the engine: check out the Damper Plate, and Back oil filter that goes from the tranny into the engine body, it leaks with the years.

[Zeida]

I second the posting by Steve Laume of Raven. Do as much to refresh your engine and tranny as possible, now that it's out. a Good diesel mechanic would be a Godsend. Pistons, injectors and all gaskets can use service. You can see from my photos that the thick hose connects the stern tube -with the tail of a new cutless bearing showing- to the stuffing box. The clamps on the back end of the hose are the crimping type. the regular ones will not fit. you need to get those same ones so when you reinsert the whole thing -from the outside in- it fits. The front clamps will be regular ones, just as you describe.


old bronze prop shaft being replaced by new SS one.




stuffing box with the new gortex packing


view from above: front end of the stern tube hose with clamps/

[tmsc]

Doubleb,

Replaced mine without pulling the engine. Removed the prop and pulled the log. My biggest regret is that I did not use Titanium hose clamps. Wanted to swap them at this last haul out but Titan is always sold out now and have been for a long time. Guess the military or someone must be buying every one they can produce. PS. if anyone knows of another manufacture please post. By the way, how much stuff did you find under the engine?

[doubleb]

OMG- thanks for all the reply’s.
Zeida those pics are great! I have to ask where did you get the clamps for the shaft log (crimped) and did they fit through the stern with no problem? Also what did you use for sealant? 4200? We use the same clamps at work but for hose in a much larger size. I did not think the clamped hose assembly would pass through the hole in the stern. What hose did you use? I purchased one from Spartan yours appears to be a tad longer than 4”. I figured if it lasted that long why not. Buck Algonquin seemed to be too large on the OD with clamps installed.
Spartan recommends 3/16” packing. Zeida what size did you use? We use a lot of gortex packing at work for packed pump seals. Yes it is good stuff but the TFE based packing will cut a shaft in no time.
This of course is my first go around with this so I have lots of questions.
As far as the motor goes the Volvo MD11C seems to be doing OK. I am going with the “if it aint broke don’t fix it” plan. Of course filters. Oil, water pump impeller, and anything else I can do? will get done.
Anyway.
Thanks all for the input, us newbies need all the coaching we can get so we can pass the information onto others. Learning from doing is good, learning from breaking is bad.
Thanks
B.B.

[Zeida]

Doubleb... I had to take my stern tube aand the hose, to a machine shop where they crimped those clamps in place. They are the only clamps that will allow the clamped hose thru the stern hole. Of course, before I made sure that the hose would fit thru the hole. I'm almost sure I use 1/4" packing in the stuffing box... 3 rings do the job. I attempted to put in a fourth and it did not fit. For sealant on the hose assembly I used boat life polysulphide. Since I was able to remove the old hose, I cut the new one to the same length...it may indeed be four inches. Will post more pictures on this subject soon. Enjoy your boat. The 33's are awsome.

[Paul D.]

Doubleb,

I, along with Zeida, use 1/4 packing for my packing gland. I, unlike every other sailor in our marina, have been replacing the packing every year or two. Perhaps I am a glutton for punishment crawling down in there. I have used the PTFE Flax packing and lube and it has always worked well. Now I am going to do it only every three years or so if it checks out properly in the spring.