Ethanol Blues...

[Jim Cornwell]

This has been an enlightening thread about the mysteries of ethanol. I'm intrigued that pressure cleaning of the carburators on small engines might be a preventive measure from time to time and might help avoid costly "tune-ups" that are the usual result. Not just outboards - but the occasionally used chain saws, weed whackers, leaf blowers, etc., that often refuse to run when needed. What's a source for the accessories that adapted the Sure Shot to fit multiple carburators? Auto supply?

Can anyone draw a connection between ethanol and the high revving described in my previous post? It will be pure gas from now on, for certain! Thanks, Jim.

[Bibster]

I recently attended a seminar on the care and feeding of outboard motors at a local chandlery here in Annapolis, Fawcett Boat Supply. Their head mechanic related that his staff were assured of full-time, gainful employment because of the effects of ethanol and he strongly recommended avoiding the stuff if possible. Fawcett is now selling non-ethanol fuel (and it ain't cheap!), but before they started marketing it they used to buy aviation gas from the local airport to run through the engines they repaired. He strongly advised using aviation gas if non-ethanol fuel was unavailable anywhere else.

[Oswego John]

Try this. Then click the state where you live.

http://buyrealgas.com/

Not 100% accurate. Some dates are stale.

Good luck,
O J

[sharkbait]

Jim

The quick connect is a Swagelock product. The automotive supply houses or Lowes have a large selection of hose barbs to fit different size fuel hoses. I would suggest including a small on/off valve in the line.

[mashenden]

Can anyone draw a connection between ethanol and the high revving described in my previous post?

Two possibilities come to mind; 1) if the carbs jets are getting clogged, it may be limiting fuel flow. Some engines rev up right before they run out of gas as the fuel/air mix goes wonky, 2) if notable separation has occurred, you could be burning ethanol rather than a blend, which would also mess up the RPMs, and potentially the pistons etc if ran like that for long.

[mashenden]

Oops, double post.

[tartansailor]

Dick

Thanks for the chemical explanation. I knew Xylene worked but not why. I will modify my concoction and add some Naphtha to the mix. Would a little MEK help too?

Hi Shark,
NOoo don't use MEK as that will attack the seal in the float needle, and rubber hose if it's not Nitrile.

Dick

[sharkbait]

Thanks for your input.

[Mr. Bill]

A couple of bits of information from here in Charlotte, NC;

1) The guy who works on all my 2 stroke lawn equipment was adamant that ethanol based fuel tends to deteriorate poly based parts in carburators and suggested I switch to non ethanol gas
2) A couple of threads up someone talked about it eating the poly lining of rubber boat tank fuel lines. Mine had the very problem and I replaced them. I cut the old ones open and sure enough the clear poly inner liner of the hose was coming off rapidly
3) Call around, there are 2 or 3 stations that do sell non ethanol fuel, best bet is to get a 5 or 10 gallon can and keep some on hand, you could always use what's left over in your car.
4) Check some You tube videos on how to remove and spray clean your carb with Gumout. I did last year and it was pretty easy. Put it back on and it ran great. I am NO mechanic, be brave and give it a shot

Have fun!

[swhfire21]

In my experience it takes about an hour worth of work to break down and clean carb, change fuel pump diaphragm and hoses is all that's needed and your ethanol problems will be done with. These small carbs have about 6-8 parts and are simple to work with. I don't use any fuel treatment, but do run the carb dry prior to winter storage and fog through plugs instead of carb. This even worked for a 70s vintage 6hp Johnson I redid 8 yrs ago (friend still running it). Good luck

[mashenden]

In my experience it takes about an hour worth of work to break down and clean carb, change fuel pump diaphragm and hoses is all that's needed and your ethanol problems will be done with.

... until next year. I think the point to not forget is that this process is needed much less frequently with non-ethanol gas. When you have numerous motors, this becomes a real concern. Just because it is possible, even easy, to clean a carb does not make ethanol gas a good option for most boaters.

While a bit off topic since not boat related, ethanol gas made things so bad that I switched to battery power for my weed eater since it only gets used once a month (about 9 times a year), making the ratio of work done to work needed unsupportable.

[Russell]

When in the US (where ethonol is common) I have become accustomed to taking apart and cleaning my carb at least every 4 months. People make it out to be more then it is, sure the first time you pull the carb off it might be daunting and complex, but after your 10th time, its no big deal. I can have my carb removed, dissasembled, cleaned and put back in about 30min (thats how routine it has become for me). In the Caribbean, where there is no ethonol fuel, I never have engine issues and have never had to go through any of this, but when in the US its common and routine, I have come to think of it as normal maintence. I go out of my way to always go to places that "claim" non ethonal fuel, but from experience I suspect those places often are still giving you ethonal because thats all they could get that week. I use Soltron (or Startron as its more often called in the US) in both the boats diesel and in the dinghys gas engine, it has been great in the diesel, it hasnt done squat in the dingys outboard though to help with the ethanol. Seafoam has been the best thing for the outboard but only combined with periodical removal, dissassembly and cleaning of the carb. I have literally cleaned the carb spotless and a month later dissasembled it (even though it got supposedly ethonal free fuel) taken it apart and found huge amounts of "gunk" in it.

Buy the best fuel you can, but dont count on it and learn to clean your carburetor.

[mashenden]

Please do not think that I am arguing with the crowd that advocates rebuilding carbs. Its a necessary skill that I have mostly mastered (dammit). I'm just advocating that we all complain loudly so that those making the rules know we don't like ethanol gas. It was better before this change came into the picture.

If I sit back passively, I'd be saying that I am fine with rebuilding carbs on 2 Seagull outboards, 3 jet skis (5 carbs), 2 push lawn mowers, 1 riding mower, 2 blowers, 2 weed trimmers (1 now replaced with a battery model to see if it serves better), and 1 generator (That is excluding cars which seem to handle the ethanol crap OK because they do not sit long and one Yammy that is newish, fuel injected, and babied with premo gas to avoid such fuel problems).

Bottom line - If I used ethanol gas, I'd get much less boating per season. I'd do nothing but rebuild carbs!!

[hilbert]

(That is excluding cars which seem to handle the ethanol crap OK because they do not sit long and one Yammy that is newish, fuel injected, and babied with premo gas to avoid such fuel problems)

From what I've read, premium gas is more likely to have the full 10% ethanol.

There is a difference between states on whether premium gas specifically has ethanol in it or not. Or, more correctly, whether it's required to have it in it. Two states in the Union, Missouri and Montana, have specific exemption to allow ethanol-free premium gasoline. So if you live in one of those two states, you can be thankful.

For the rest of us, we are faced with the unpleasant reality that the refineries are all but tied into putting ethanol in premium gas. This is because they have to use the ethanol to raise the octane level of their gasoline blend in order to satisfy the higher octane requirements of premium. This is one reason why you don't get better gas mileage with premium gas, because an essential part of that blend is a component that has less energy and forces the gas mileage down simply by nature.

So don't get fooled into thinking you can escape ethanol's grasp simply by paying more and getting premium gas.

http://www.bellperformance.com/blog/bid ... anol-in-it

[mashenden]

...and one Yammy that is newish, fuel injected, and babied with premo gas to avoid such fuel problems)

From what I've read, premium gas is more likely to have the full 10% ethanol.

Good point. By "premo" I meant non-ethanol (except during the summer when knee boarding keeps the gas flowing through the engine like there is no tomorrow - Shameful, really, but it keeps the kids coming to the water, during which they also get some sailing time).