"Roll up" trickle charger with two battery leads

[Maine Sail]

+1

That charge controller I mentioned in the PM would be a good option with two separate banks..

[Duncan]

...The two AC Delco Voyager Group 27 batteries (M27MF) on S/V Bali Ha'i are NOT set up in parallel. They are in series and only connected in parallel via the Perko battery switch (OFF, 1, ALL, 2)...

Your batteries are not connected in series, either.
In series, they would be producing twice the voltage, i.e. 24 volts instead of 12.

Your batteries are wired independently, with the ability to "parallel them" via the "BOTH" position at the battery switch. This gives you independent access to each battery, or the combined power of both batteries, all at 12 volts.

A good investment at this point could be "The 12 Volt Bible for Boats" LINK.

I can vouch for the accuracy of the description below - this book is a treasure.

The 12-Volt Bible for Boats is a clear, nonthreatening introduction to the 12-volt electrical systems used on small boats to power everything from reading lights to bilge pumps. This second edition is thoroughly updated with respect to modern batteries, breaker and panel design, alternative energy sources, and troubleshooting equipment, but it retains the fundamental simplicity that is the source of its enduring popularity (more than 100,000 copies sold).

[Oswego John]

The two AC Delco Voyager Group 27 batteries (M27MF) on S/V Bali Ha'i are NOT set up in parallel. They are in series and only connected in parallel via the Perko battery switch (OFF, 1, ALL, 2).

The cable connecting the two batteries together is BLACK and is believed to be the negative ground cable. A black cable goes from Battery #2 (neg) to Battery #1 (neg). A second black cable goes from Battery #1 (neg) to the engine block.

Sources report that Sea Hunt Video is still trying to trace some red wires that go from the battery up into the cabin.

Hi Robert,

The first order of business is to congratulate you on your acquisition of Bali Hai. I wish you many years of trouble free sailing with her.

Without seeing your wiring job, I'm trying to envision what your battery setup is. I'll try to throw some out points that I get from your last post.

If you connect two batteries in series, each one being about twelve volts, the output would be roughly 24 volts DC. Such a high voltage would surely blow out your lights and other 12V components, especially electronics. I think that you aren't hooked up in series OR parallel.

The electrician who hooked up the batteries installed a jumper from neg post battery #1 to neg post battery #2. Rather than run one individual black cable from each neg post of each battery to the engine block common, he used only one neg cable. In my way of thinking, this single cable should be larger than the positive feeds from each battery to the switch. The reason that I think that is because when the switch is positioned to "All", full load of both batteries is being carried by this one neg cable. Two hot wires utilizing one neutral (of same or smaller size) is used commonly with AC systems, not DC.

Since you wrote that you are tracing red wires (plural), this leads me to believe that the batteries aren't wired either parallel or series but as two separate banks individually that can be combined for whatever purpose by the selector switch in the "All" position.

Just thinking out loud. Tossing my $.02 at you.

O J

[Joe Myerson]

Hi Robert,

Your description of Bali Hai's battery setup sounds exactly like what I've got aboard Creme Brulee, which is, I suspect, the way the batteries were set up originally. The POs of my boat didn't make many changes.

I have two Group 27 wet-cell 12-volt batteries, linked by a battery switch (with "1," "2," "All," and "Off" settings). Since my boat stays on a mooring, I have long thought about getting a solar panel to keep the batteries charged.

But I've owned the boat since 2003, and have never followed through with the solar-charging project.

My "electronics" are hardly worthy of the name. I've got the standard cabin lights, running lights and a fixed-base VHF radio. I also have a handheld GPS unit (Garmin GPSmap 76) that's hard-wired to my battery--and also loaded with fresh AA batteries, and a Raymarine ST-2000 autopilot, which I almost never use except when under power.

The only time I ever had trouble with my batteries was last spring--because I stored them onboard the boat and left them hooked up to the wrong sort of chargers. (I was warned about that by several on this board--Now I have my batteries stored in the basement on a plywood platform, and I'm charging them once a month with a three-stage "smart" charger.)

Unless you're planning to load your 25D with lots of power-draining electronics (like a flat-screened TV, a big chartplotter, a laptop, radar and the like), I would suggest you leave well enough alone for your first season afloat.

If you feel you'll need some solar trickle charging, check out our fearless commodore's thread about a fairly simple solar-charging system that he purchased for his 25D.

From what I've read, it doesn't seem to me that a roll-up solar panel is worth much. The price of rigid solar panels is dropping by the minute (just ask the former employees of Evergreen Solar or Solyndra), and that is surely the way to go. I did pick up a small backpacker's roll-up solar unit on sale, thinking that it could charge my cell phone battery when I'm cruising, but it can barely do that.

Best of luck with your new 25D!

--Joe

[Andy Denmark]

Robert,

You mentioned "other" wires attached directly to the battery terminals. Generally, the 3 things that are wired directly to a battery without going through the electrical panel are, (1) VHF, (2) bilge pump, and, (3) input from whatever charging apparatus you have. All of these should have fuses in the positive leads.

I agree that you don't really need a fixed mount charger, solar or otherwise, with the minimal equipment you have.

If you must use solar panels then I'd do 2 very small ones (one per battery) that don't need charge controllers.

I'm pretty sure you have the original factory installed setup with your battery switch and this is fine for the sailing you do --- by far the most popular and easiest to use and understand.

FWIW

[Brian2]

Hello,

I installed the on/off/combine switch this summer, replacing a 1/both/2/off switch. I did this for two reasons: My panel and engine were not separated. On 1 (Start) or 2 (house) or both, voltage was supplied to my house battery, and to the engine. After a day or afternoon of sailing, when I started the engine to anchor or moor, I didn't like seeing the voltage drop on my electronics. I installed a 3A solar panel wired directly to my house battery; the panel easily keeps my house battery charged, and now I sail onto the mooring much more frequently, as I don't feel the need to motor for a while to recharge the house battery. And the house battery is truly isolated from the start battery. I now start the engine only using the start battery, and the start battery does not supply the panel. When I start the engine, I see no voltage drop in in electronics, or on the Link 10 monitor wired to the house battery. My house battery supplies the distribution panel, and my start battery supplies the engine.

My question is: When I installed the on/off/combine, I thought that combine was the same as both on a 1/2/both/off. Is that not true?

Also, one concern I have now is that both batteries are always on when the switch is on. I can't turn off the start battery when it is not needed. That means if I have some voltage leakage somewhere in the engine wiring, the start battery could end up dead overnight. Previously, with the old 1/2/both/off switch, I switched to 2 (house) when anchored, moored, or sailing, believing that as such the start battery was always fully charged. I have no reason to suspect any leakage, but things happen.

[Maine Sail]

Hello,

I installed the on/off/combine switch this summer, replacing a 1/both/2/off switch. I did this for two reasons: My panel and engine were not separated. On 1 (Start) or 2 (house) or both, voltage was supplied to my house battery, and to the engine. After a day or afternoon of sailing, when I started the engine to anchor or moor, I didn't like seeing the voltage drop on my electronics. I installed a 3A solar panel wired directly to my house battery; the panel easily keeps my house battery charged, and now I sail onto the mooring much more frequently, as I don't feel the need to motor for a while to recharge the house battery. And the house battery is truly isolated from the start battery. I now start the engine only using the start battery, and the start battery does not supply the panel. When I start the engine, I see no voltage drop in in electronics, or on the Link 10 monitor wired to the house battery. My house battery supplies the distribution panel, and my start battery supplies the engine.

My question is: When I installed the on/off/combine, I thought that combine was the same as both on a 1/2/both/off. Is that not true?

Also, one concern I have now is that both batteries are always on when the switch is on. I can't turn off the start battery when it is not needed. That means if I have some voltage leakage somewhere in the engine wiring, the start battery could end up dead overnight. Previously, with the old 1/2/both/off switch, I switched to 2 (house) when anchored, moored, or sailing, believing that as such the start battery was always fully charged. I have no reason to suspect any leakage, but things happen.

Answered your PM...

[Sea Hunt Video]

Thanks to EVERYONE for all of your help and suggestions.

For now, I think I will not buy a trickle charger or other equipment. I will carefully monitor battery state (multi-meter not gauge on electrical panel) and see what happens.

The batteries I installed were (are) more expensive than I wanted to pay but are supposedly very tolerant of abuse.

Those who suggest my battery usage is (will be very modest) are accurate. I do not have (and do not want) a lot electrical gizmos onboard. I am sure they have there place and are valuable to those who want them. Most of my sailing will be daylight hours, Biscayne Bay and the Florida Keys, anchoring or docked at night. If house bank fails at night, I will have aboard several temporary lights to use as emergency anchor lights. My friend Zeida gave me one a couple of years ago that, if I recall correctly, works as both an anchor light and a cockpit light for dinner, etc.

My concern is that the limited engine/alternator usage I am hoping for will be insufficient to keep the batteries charged up. Operating without a house battery (Batt #2) is probably OK. Operating without a start battery (Batt #1) is not OK. Depending on battery drain and recharging capability I MAY purchase some type of solar charger to be used just for the start battery. I would like to avoid "hand cranking". S/V Bali Ha'i came with the original Cape Dory/Yanmar "hand crank". After reviewing the Yanmar manual for hand crank starting I was reminded of the 1930s Packard my Dad and I used to tinker with more than 50 years ago. Fond memories.

[mike ritenour]

I keep reading in the trades that solar panels have reached a record low in price, due to dumping by China.

However, as I look around it does not seem to be the case.
Prices seem about the same as they always were.

Has anyone done any research on the cheapest and best panels currently on the market?
Tips on panels?
Recommendations?
Pitfalls?
Where they can be purchased?

Many thanks,
Rit

[Maine Sail]

I keep reading in the trades that solar panels have reached a record low in price, due to dumping by China.

However, as I look around it does not seem to be the case.
Prices seem about the same as they always were.

Has anyone done any research on the cheapest and best panels currently on the market?
Tips on panels?
Recommendations?
Pitfalls?
Where they can be purchased?

Many thanks,
Rit

Our 80W Siemans panel, which then became Shell Solar and now Solar World cost $875.00 11 years ago. They still make the same panel and a quick search revealed it can now be purchased for $262.00.. That's a pretty big drop in price for a premium quality level panel..

If you want a "cheap" solar panel they can be had for a lot less. UL Solar, I have no experience with them, is selling an 80W polycrystalline panel for $189.00 plus free shipping. I can't remember what the shipping cost 11 years ago but it was in the $70.00 range making our 80W panel more than $900.00 total cost..