Flying the Ensign on the Back Stay

[Joe Myerson]

Whew!

Seriously, I've been pondering some kind of setup for the backstay, since I don't want to cut into the cap rail at the transom. Another option, at least when not under sail, might be attaching a bracket for the flag staff to the stern boarding ladder.

I happened to notice this arrangement while Liquidity and her hapless crew were getting nowhere fast during yesterday's Boston Harbor Islands Regatta.

Of course, I now realize that we should not have been flying Old Glory during that so-called race.

--Joe

[Russell]

Now I am completely unsure of what i thought I knew for sure! Searching around the net isnt providing and solid answers on the requirements. I suspect the need to fly the flag when in international waters is probably something to do with international maritime law rather then US law or USCG documentation requirements, but thats just a guess not something i know as an absolute. As for flying it in US waters being required, I cannot find anything suggesting thats the case other then the Annapolis Book of Seamanship saying so.

[Steve Laume]

So if no one is there to see it are you really not flying the ensign when at sea?

Whatever the legal requirements might be, in US waters, I always fly an ensign. It is out of respect for our country and it makes Raven look real pretty. It also has to do with the state of security in our nation. I don't want to give any vessel, any reason, to doubt that I am just another local pleasure boat out for a sail. Vessels with no clear identification are always suspect. Not that I am paranoid at all but I think it is to everyone's benefit to clearly identify your vessel. The ensign is just one more form of identification.

Ensign in domestic waters, stars and strips in foreign ports.

And don't ever think about leaving an American flag permanently flying from one of your spreaders. I left a couple of notes on flag etiquette for some boats in our marina this summer. Not nasty but informing them that the spreaders were not the proper place nor should the flag stay there all summer both night and day. I am not even an ultra patriot but flag etiquette is some how important to me. Don't even get me started on those stupid pirate flags, Steve.

[Steve Laume]

Ok O.J. if you really are a pirate it is okay to fly the skull and cross bones, Steve.

[Oswego John]

Well shiver me 2 X 4s.

Pucebeard the Pirate

[Carter Brey]

Our own Michael Heintz flies his ensign from the backstay. Perhaps he can share his technique with us.

CB

[Oswego John]

Ok O.J. if you really are a pirate it is okay to fly the skull and cross bones, Steve.

Avast, me matey, I'm not a Pirate. My very good friend Pucebeard is the Pirate in question. Puce Beard just hides out in my area. I dare not tell anyone of his whereabouts. I understand that there is a bounty of 50,000 pounds sterling on his head.

Very often, Pucey uses my computer to get messages out to his cut throat crew scattered throughout the Western Hemisphere

I asked Pucey, (we're on a first name basis), if it is okay to fly the Skull and Cross Bones. My bad. He growled at me and bared his tooth. I guess that he was watching a group of blaggards from Pittsburg in some kind of sporting event and I disturbed him.

He snarled when he told me that not only was it okay to run up the Jolly Roger, but it was compulsory when pillaging in traditional Pirate waters. Something about scaring the knickers (accompanied with a few not so nice adjectives) off the foe. A real puce blooded Pirate would think of nothing less when pursuing the quarry.

I didn't have the nerve to farther ask the implications if the ship was documented or not. Maybe that will be for another day.

O J,
Friend of Pucebeard the Pirate

[Sea Hunt Video]

In continuing to try to "research" (without much success so far ) some of my lingering questions about flag etiquette on a sailboat I came across this website/company that manufactures both the United States Flag Ensign (50 stars/13 stripes) as well as the US Yacht Ensign (as well as a lot of other flags).

http://www.flagstuff.com/

I learned a long time ago not to believe anything on a website, especially one that is trying to sell you something. What attracted me to the "Flagstuff" website is the statement on the website that all US Flags, etc. are made in America by American craftsmen using American material. Assuming this is true, it is a good reason to patronize them. I have no need for a United States Flag mfg. in China, South Korea, Thailand, Bangladesh or similar and then shipped to the US for sale.

I have no interest in this company and never even knew they existed until about 40 minutes ago.

OJ, if you are interested, they also sell the "Jolly Roger" flag ("Skull & Crossbones"). You could get one that is 3' x 5' for only $37 Your ensemble would then be complete.

[Oswego John]

Sea Hunt Video (Gotta get used to the new monicker)

Roger Wilco that, loud and clear.

Ronald Right.
O J

[Joe Myerson]

I've been looking at the Backstay Flag Halyard kits, available at various marine suppliers and costing anything from $62 to $80. I wonder if such a setup would permit the flag to fly 2/3 of the way up the backstay when under sail, and just above the stern cap rail when at anchor or under power.

I could add this to my off-season projects list, but I'm wondering if Old Glory could get hung up on my topping lift.

Do any of you patriotic sailors have experience with this piece of hardware?

--Joe

[MFC]

Chapman's says "[t]here is no legislation governing the flying of any flag on noncommercial vessels" and then goes on to describe the customs which have been adopted including a chart from the US Power Squadron.

In response to the OP, along the way the USPS chart states 2/3 of the way up the leech of aftmost sail or and equivillent position on the backstay.

Savannah came with a block on the backstay just a couple of feet higher than the top of the bimini and no flag staff holder. I have been planning on putting a similar block on the new backstay. It doesn't sound perfectly proper by USPS standards, but I think it will do.

Matt

[Sea Hunt Video]

As I suggested in an earlier post, I have thought of buying a 2'-3' piece of PVC tubing with an end cap and clamping the PVC tubing to a stern rail stanchion a little to starboard. A few holes would be drilled into the end cap for water drainage.

The flagstaff (preferably wood of quality) would sit in the PVC tubing. A small eye bolt screwed into the flagstaff and another into the PVC (secured to each other with line) so that the flagstaff could be secured from flying out of the PVC "scabbard" on what are sure to be some of my wild tacks and jibes.

Does anyone know of any US Flag Ensign or US Yacht Ensign etiquette that would make this set up inappropriate on a small sailing vessel It seems like it would be easy to "raise" and "lower" the colors as appropriate.

As I am sure is true with all on this board, the last thing I want to do is inadvertently dishonor our Flag.

Comments and suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Steve Laume]

I've been looking at the Backstay Flag Halyard kits, available at various marine suppliers and costing anything from $62 to $80. I wonder if such a setup would permit the flag to fly 2/3 of the way up the backstay when under sail, and just above the stern cap rail when at anchor or under power.

I could add this to my off-season projects list, but I'm wondering if Old Glory could get hung up on my topping lift.

Do any of you patriotic sailors have experience with this piece of hardware?

--Joe

$60 to $80 for some sail twine which you might have on board, one small block you could pick up the next time you are browsing the marine consignment (under $10.00 new), one shroud cleat ($15.00), two brass snap eyes ($3.00 ea,) and some flag halyard ($5.50 for 50')? Maybe a bit less.

I am not so sure you want to be combining the flag halyard with the topping lift. It is probably not long enough to lower for proper flag placement. You wouldn't want to add any hardware that might chafe the main either.

The backs stay works pretty well. If you want to lower it a bit while not sailing a ring or loop of line would keep it snugged up to the back stay.

I still like the stern staff and might work on something that could be mounted on the vane frame without interfering with it's operation, Steve.

[Joe Myerson]

Steve,

$60 to $80 for some sail twine which you might have on board, one small block you could pick up the next time you are browsing the marine consignment (under $10.00 new), one shroud cleat ($15.00), two brass snap eyes ($3.00 ea,) and some flag halyard ($5.50 for 50')? Maybe a bit less.

Yeah, that does seem kind of steep for those little pieces of hardware.

I am not so sure you want to be combining the flag halyard with the topping lift.

Maybe I wasn't clear: I wouldn't try to fly a flag or ensign from the topping lift; I'm just concerned that a flag flown on the backstay 2/3 from the masthead might get in the way of the topping lift under some circumstances.

I still like the stern staff and might work on something that could be mounted on the vane frame without interfering with it's operation, Steve.

Yes, I agree that the proper way to do this would be to have a handsomely crafted and varnished flag staff to display Old Glory while at anchor or when under power.

--Joe

[Neil Gordon]

Forgive me if I said this already, but flying the ensign aloft is while underway only. Proper procedure is to have crew standing by at the flag staff and at the halyard, waiting for the order to "shift colors."

As for flying the ensign when alone at sea, if that's your practice, keep a supply on board, as they don't last long that way.