Flying the Ensign on the Back Stay

[ckreitlein]

I prefer not to use the stern flag staff because the leverage on the staff on a windy day is hard on the socket screwed into the teak along the stern. Per Chapman's the Ensign can be flown on the mainsail leech 2/3rds the way up... but how? Attached to the sail would seem to look ridiculous. Perhaps on the topping lift or on the Backstay. If anyone has hoisted the Ensign in this fashion, I would appreciate an explanation and perhaps a photo.

Thanks. See you in Fairhope I hope.
Chris
S/V Miss Marley

[Neil Gordon]

Attached to the sail would look just fine.

If you want the ensign on a halyard, sew in a suitable block and secure the other end of the halyard to the boom end. This will give you flexibility to dip the ensign as a sign of respect to warships, without requiring you to dip the entire main sail.

[Steve Laume]

Chris, I don't think there is much of a problem with the flag staff on the stern if attached properly. You would be screwing it through the teak cap rail as well a a good bit of solid glass. If you were really concerned, you could through bolt it with fender washers.

That said, Raven now has her ensign on the back stay. This was brought on by the addition of a wind vane a few years back. When I first installed the vane the rig was up so I stood as high on the boom as I could get and attached a small block to the back stay. The next time the rig was down, I measured out the distance and did a proper job of it. This involved seizing a short section of the back stay and then lashing the small block to it. The cleat is at the base of the back stay, just above the turnbuckle. It is one of those clamp on jobbies. This all works fairly well but the ensign sometimes wraps around the stay. If the ensign was mounted on the leach I believe it would stream a bit better. The down side is that it could not be flown when the main was not up. We never raise our main at 8 AM. and usually have it down before sunset.

I would prefer to have the stern mount as it is a bit easier to roll and stow the ensign. I also believe the flag itself sees a more sheltered life. You are also less likely to forget to deal with it. Plus it is very nice to sit in the cockpit and gaze out at a well varnished, teak staff with the ensign flying proudly. Then get up from your seat and roll it up at sunset. Steve.

[ckreitlein]

Great ideas - both. I'm gonna try putting up the blocks on the Backstay and try it.
Thanks all.

[Neil Gordon]

>>The down side is that it could not be flown when the main was not up.<<

Which is the proper protocol, I believe. If the main is not up, the ensign should be flown from the stern (which leaves us back where we started).

[Sea Hunt Video]

Interesting and timely thread.

I have been thinking of where and how to fly the ensign on my new-to-me Cape Dory 25D.

From the "research" I have done (wildly exaggerated term for what I am capable of on the Internet ) the ensign MUST be flown on USCG documented vessels when in US waters. I am planning on filing the paperwork for USCG documentation, hopefully within the first year of being her caretaker, so getting the ensign right is a priority.

Flag size is related to vessel size - 1" of horizontal flag for every 1' vessel length. The flag's vertical length should be 2/3s of the horizontal. On a CD 25D that would be 25" x 17".

As for location, I have been thinking of vertically installing a 2' piece of PVC pipe to the stern pulpit using C-clamps to affix it to a pulpit stanchion a little to starboard of the centerline. A bottom cap with holes drilled in will keep the "flag pole" from falling through and will allow water to drain.

I am sure I have mistakes in the above and would be grateful for corrections before my mistakes become "public" displays of stupidity.

[Joe Myerson]

From the "research" I have done (wildly exaggerated term for what I am capable of on the Internet ) the ensign MUST be flown on USCG documented vessels when in US waters.

Say it ain't so, Robert.

My boat was first documented by the original owner, and she's been documented ever since.

Still, as far as I can tell, she's never flown an ensign.

Is Creme Brulee somehow illegal? Or are her owners unpatriotic or (more likely) just lazy?

--Joe

[tjr818]

If the flag is on the mainsail or the topping lift wouldn't it hit the backstay every time you tack or jibe?

[Russell]

An US flag must be flown on a documented vessel when NOT in US waters, this is true. In US waters it does not need to be flown. I only fly my flag when outside the US, to save wear and tear.

Also worth noting, when in international waters, the US flag is what must be flown, NOT the yacht ensign.

[Joe Myerson]

Russell,

That was my reading of the regs as well.

If (or when) I take Creme Brulee into Canadian waters, I'll be sure to fly the Stars and Stripes.

Patriotically yours,

--Joe

[John Ring]

I clip the ensign into a cable clamp on the backstay, just high enough to reach. A bit of Velcro strap secures the bottom.

John
CD28 Tantalus

[Sea Hunt Video]

Joe and Russell:

I got the information from The Annapolis Book of Seamanship by John Rousemaniere (3rd Ed. 1999).

At page 369, this book states:

"By law, the only pleasure boats required to fly the yacht ensign in US waters are ones that are documented, or registered with the federal government and not a state. Every other US boat may fly either the yacht ensign or the standard national ensign (except in foreign waters, where a US-registered boat may fly only the 50-star flag)." (Emphasis in original)

[Joe Myerson]

Well Robert, I just opened my own copy of John Rousmaniere's book, and your citation is correct.

I wonder if his information is correct ...

If so, I've been a scofflaw since I purchased a documented yacht.

--Joe

[Joe Myerson]

While I could not find anything this specific in Chapman, I did find this citation on Wikipedia. [My underlining]:

Vessels that are formally documented under the federal vessel documentation act, vessels owned by government bodies in the United States, and vessels in the US armed forces unquestionably have US national character, and thus properly hoist a U.S. ensign to show their national character. Vessels that are numbered by the states and small, non-registered craft owned by American citizens may also hoist a U.S. ensign to show their national character.

To add to confusion: Chapman says that the U.S. Ensign should NEVER be flown while racing. And on the high seas, an ensign need not be flown, except when encountering other vessels.

Interesting questions. Something to ponder after my outlaw vessel is hauled.

--Joe

[Sea Hunt Video]

Joe:

I do not put any faith or reliability in what Wikipedia says on any subject.

I am told that several years ago they had me romantically linked with Jessica Alba claiming that we became "more than friends" after I did some underwater filming with her in the movie "Into the Blue".

It was all totally false. Jessie and I have always been "just friends".

I think the confusion on flag etiquette may be in the terminology caused by the difference between a "Yacht Ensign" and a "US Flag Ensign". Depending on which is being discussed, etiquette changes. I am not at all sure about this but I think The Annapolis Book of Seamanship may have been referring to the "Yacht Ensign" when saying that US documented/registered vessels were required to fly the ensign in US waters.