I second New England Ropes Regatta Braid for the mainsheet. I have been using it for years for the mainsheet (only) and I love it. I would hate to have to change back to regular braided. It is great on the hands and doesn't kink. Great great stuff.
I agree with the others, sooner or later you have to go to the mast. A set of mast pulpits are what I would like to have. They are on the list but................
Main sheet, making holes in headliner, lines to cockpit
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Mainsheet
Lee
S/V Solomon Lee
S/V Solomon Lee
-
Dick Kobayashi
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '05, 16:31
- Location: Former owner of 3 CDs, most recently Susan B, a 25D
Hijacked
...seems my thread has been. I could still use some substantive responses. thx
Dick K
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
-
Dean Abramson
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 11:23
- Location: CD 31 "Loda May"
Mostly on-topic
Dick,
I like having my halyards at the mast. The reasons are:
1) That's what I am used to.
2) Less clutter in the cockpit.
3) A little less physical effort required for hoisting.
4) I don't enjoy boat work as much as some sailors, so the prospect of installing the extra blocks, etc. does not appeal to me. Either does the cost.
5) As long as my staysail is hanked-on, I am going to be making regular trips forward anyway.
Dean
I like having my halyards at the mast. The reasons are:
1) That's what I am used to.
2) Less clutter in the cockpit.
3) A little less physical effort required for hoisting.
4) I don't enjoy boat work as much as some sailors, so the prospect of installing the extra blocks, etc. does not appeal to me. Either does the cost.
5) As long as my staysail is hanked-on, I am going to be making regular trips forward anyway.
Dean
Last edited by Dean Abramson on Apr 16th, '11, 20:54, edited 1 time in total.
Dean Abramson
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
-
WaywardWind
Sacred cows
Sorry if some small number* of people feel a sacred cow got sniped at.
Let me point out, however, that should Federal Law be changed so that boats with halyards led to the cockpit become illegal should they also carry an EPIRB or DSC radio or lift raft ...
... we probably wouldn't have halyards led back to the cockpit.
* I ask that small number to pay attention to the thread and avoid trying to insult anyone's manhood. The first may be productive, while the second is a waste of time and effort.
Please chill out.
Let me point out, however, that should Federal Law be changed so that boats with halyards led to the cockpit become illegal should they also carry an EPIRB or DSC radio or lift raft ...
... we probably wouldn't have halyards led back to the cockpit.
* I ask that small number to pay attention to the thread and avoid trying to insult anyone's manhood. The first may be productive, while the second is a waste of time and effort.
Please chill out.
-
Dean Abramson
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 11:23
- Location: CD 31 "Loda May"
Good example
I have decided to follow Russell's example, and have also edited out the intemperate part of my post above.
Dean
Dean
Dean Abramson
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
-
SurryMark
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Nov 18th, '08, 10:04
- Location: Formerly CD27Y, Tula. Now Luders Sea Sprite 34
- Contact:
enough rope
There will be a lines-to-the cockpit question here, but first something more theoretical.
Old Wayward stirs the troops with his or her taliban-level moral approach to recreation, and occasional casual approach to facts. Personally, I never miss a thread where I see WwW’s name. There’s almost always something that sharpens the posts that follow. This world is on the rocks with intolerant extremists; it’s almost a pleasure to come up against it in a sailboat forum, where real harm is unlikely. (If an inexperienced person is inclined to follow some silly advice, they only have to read a bit more of the thread to get the rest of the story.) Finally, I hope that our Wayward is not physically incapacitated and living an angry fantasy sailing life. More finally, please don’t feed me my tolerant words if I respond to W impolitely some day.
The halyard question: I see lines to the cockpit on boats all the time, and have used them, but I’m not clear on when I would want them on Tula. My roller furling line comes back, and I bless it every time. Main halyard? If the main is down, I have to go forward to take off the straps. If it’s blowing enough to reef, I can’t do that from the cockpit, can I? I guess if I want to drop the main, and head up so the boom is amidships, I can tie a strap as far as I can reach from the cockpit. Is that a typical case? Would the answer become apparent to me if I were handling sails in big blue water waves? I’ll appreciate a few words of experience.
Old Wayward stirs the troops with his or her taliban-level moral approach to recreation, and occasional casual approach to facts. Personally, I never miss a thread where I see WwW’s name. There’s almost always something that sharpens the posts that follow. This world is on the rocks with intolerant extremists; it’s almost a pleasure to come up against it in a sailboat forum, where real harm is unlikely. (If an inexperienced person is inclined to follow some silly advice, they only have to read a bit more of the thread to get the rest of the story.) Finally, I hope that our Wayward is not physically incapacitated and living an angry fantasy sailing life. More finally, please don’t feed me my tolerant words if I respond to W impolitely some day.
The halyard question: I see lines to the cockpit on boats all the time, and have used them, but I’m not clear on when I would want them on Tula. My roller furling line comes back, and I bless it every time. Main halyard? If the main is down, I have to go forward to take off the straps. If it’s blowing enough to reef, I can’t do that from the cockpit, can I? I guess if I want to drop the main, and head up so the boom is amidships, I can tie a strap as far as I can reach from the cockpit. Is that a typical case? Would the answer become apparent to me if I were handling sails in big blue water waves? I’ll appreciate a few words of experience.
-
WaywardWind
Sail handling
I have found it easiest to "handle sails in big blue water waves" by handling the sails before the "blue water waves" get to be big. Blue water does not turn into "BIG blue water" unexpectedly nor without warning nor suddenly.
If squalls might be expected at night, shorten the sails beforehand. And if the winds are building, reef at first thought of reefing.
If "big waves" might be expected (they seldom happen), stay out of the shallow water, for deep water waves don't break ("whitecaps" are not breaking waves) except serious wind against a strong current (in which case, be smart and don't go there). As they say in aviation, "Safety is no accident."(*)
As far as roller furling goes, my boat came with a high end furler with high end sail from a high end sailmaker. Yes ... it IS convenient. But, mutha, what a miserable sail partially rolled up. Partial sail I lose 10 to 15 degrees pointing ability compared to the sail full out. And this on a boat that is already not particularly good at pointing.
(*) MOST printed OMG!! horror stories at sea one might read are virtually always about a skipper's first or second time at sea. During the Fastnet Disaster, a Contessa 32 with a young couple with two small children sailed right through the thick of things and never bothered to mention it when they arrived at their destination.
I personally saw a man sailing two miles behind me later complain/brag about "20 foot waves" (in water which wouldn't support 8 foot waves) and the crew on the boat I was on tell stories of the "10 foot waves", yet the waves actually there weren't high enough to cover our 4 foot freeboard. (Things looked worse because of the angle of heel.)
Some one wants to install cockpit winches for his halyards. He is certainly free to do so. I hope he keeps in mind that if and when the weather gets snotty, cockpit led halyards cause problems when the sail is jammed. One of those problems is that the skipper doesn't know where to place his feet as he goes to the mast, and to the mast he must go. He doesn't know where to shackle his tether. He don't know how to wrap his tether around the mast to keep him close as he unjams the sail.
A skipper who lacks practice in going to the mast, lacks skill in going to the mast. Safety is no accident.
If squalls might be expected at night, shorten the sails beforehand. And if the winds are building, reef at first thought of reefing.
If "big waves" might be expected (they seldom happen), stay out of the shallow water, for deep water waves don't break ("whitecaps" are not breaking waves) except serious wind against a strong current (in which case, be smart and don't go there). As they say in aviation, "Safety is no accident."(*)
As far as roller furling goes, my boat came with a high end furler with high end sail from a high end sailmaker. Yes ... it IS convenient. But, mutha, what a miserable sail partially rolled up. Partial sail I lose 10 to 15 degrees pointing ability compared to the sail full out. And this on a boat that is already not particularly good at pointing.
(*) MOST printed OMG!! horror stories at sea one might read are virtually always about a skipper's first or second time at sea. During the Fastnet Disaster, a Contessa 32 with a young couple with two small children sailed right through the thick of things and never bothered to mention it when they arrived at their destination.
I personally saw a man sailing two miles behind me later complain/brag about "20 foot waves" (in water which wouldn't support 8 foot waves) and the crew on the boat I was on tell stories of the "10 foot waves", yet the waves actually there weren't high enough to cover our 4 foot freeboard. (Things looked worse because of the angle of heel.)
Some one wants to install cockpit winches for his halyards. He is certainly free to do so. I hope he keeps in mind that if and when the weather gets snotty, cockpit led halyards cause problems when the sail is jammed. One of those problems is that the skipper doesn't know where to place his feet as he goes to the mast, and to the mast he must go. He doesn't know where to shackle his tether. He don't know how to wrap his tether around the mast to keep him close as he unjams the sail.
A skipper who lacks practice in going to the mast, lacks skill in going to the mast. Safety is no accident.
-
Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
- Joined: Feb 13th, '05, 20:40
- Location: Raven1984 Cape Dory 30C Hull #309Noank, CT
- Contact:
I think Wayward might be a reincarnation on the guy we thought might be Jesus or O.J. on the front of the boat in the painting. That would explain a lot. They didn't need no stinkin dodgers back then.
I see part of the problem with this thread being what type of sailing the boat is being prepared for. I doubt Dick is planning any Southern Ocean voyages this season.
I do not have my lines led aft, mostly because I always seem to have enough mess in the cockpit already and for many of the other reasons already mentioned here. I am pretty agile but there may come a day when having the lines in the cockpit would be a very pleasant convenience.
Would I ever forget how to rig a tether if I needed it? That would be pretty doubtful as I wear a harness and tether a good bit of the time even without going to the mast.
I view the entire lines to the cockpit issue as a convenience for the majority of the work they would do. If it is rainy and cold you could stay tucked in behind the dodger and raise or lower the sail. A dutchman system would definitely help here. You would still have to go forward for all sorts of things so you would not get out of practice. You might even have to suck it up and go to the mast in some nasty weather. Then again if you were to follow Wayward's advice you would most likely be sitting home in a nice comfy chair so you didn't have to worry about dealing with nasty weather. With modern weather forecasting there is little need to be out in any weather you don't want to deal with in most coastal sailing situations.
To quote a quote, "safety is no accident". If things are looking that bad, stay home and go sailing when it seems like more fun, Steve.
I see part of the problem with this thread being what type of sailing the boat is being prepared for. I doubt Dick is planning any Southern Ocean voyages this season.
I do not have my lines led aft, mostly because I always seem to have enough mess in the cockpit already and for many of the other reasons already mentioned here. I am pretty agile but there may come a day when having the lines in the cockpit would be a very pleasant convenience.
Would I ever forget how to rig a tether if I needed it? That would be pretty doubtful as I wear a harness and tether a good bit of the time even without going to the mast.
I view the entire lines to the cockpit issue as a convenience for the majority of the work they would do. If it is rainy and cold you could stay tucked in behind the dodger and raise or lower the sail. A dutchman system would definitely help here. You would still have to go forward for all sorts of things so you would not get out of practice. You might even have to suck it up and go to the mast in some nasty weather. Then again if you were to follow Wayward's advice you would most likely be sitting home in a nice comfy chair so you didn't have to worry about dealing with nasty weather. With modern weather forecasting there is little need to be out in any weather you don't want to deal with in most coastal sailing situations.
To quote a quote, "safety is no accident". If things are looking that bad, stay home and go sailing when it seems like more fun, Steve.
-
WaywardWind
At first blush
Let me explain something which at first blush might seem totally unrelated, but I think in the end defines the difference.
A large percentage of people, in fact most people, define themselves as an element of a particular group. Psychologists call them "outer directed". Such people, most people, gather their group and group emblems (another psychology term) around themselves, and live their lives in the context of that group. They fit comfortably in their chosen group, and not at all outside their group.
Another sort of person, and much less frequent in numbers, is the "inner directed" person, who defines themselves in terms of themselves only and no one else. This type can easily mingle with all sorts of people, yet does not require the background noise of a same same crowd.
So, what does this mean in terms of sailing?
Just this. Sailing might well be a social experience for the first group where the joy is social, while for the second group sailing is a form at athleticism where the joy is "doing it a little bit better than last time."
Different strokes for different folks. The social groupie can't imagine sailing as anything else, the athlete can't imagine setting a boat up to lower performance or increase the chances of trouble when pushing it.
A large percentage of people, in fact most people, define themselves as an element of a particular group. Psychologists call them "outer directed". Such people, most people, gather their group and group emblems (another psychology term) around themselves, and live their lives in the context of that group. They fit comfortably in their chosen group, and not at all outside their group.
Another sort of person, and much less frequent in numbers, is the "inner directed" person, who defines themselves in terms of themselves only and no one else. This type can easily mingle with all sorts of people, yet does not require the background noise of a same same crowd.
So, what does this mean in terms of sailing?
Just this. Sailing might well be a social experience for the first group where the joy is social, while for the second group sailing is a form at athleticism where the joy is "doing it a little bit better than last time."
Different strokes for different folks. The social groupie can't imagine sailing as anything else, the athlete can't imagine setting a boat up to lower performance or increase the chances of trouble when pushing it.
-
Maine_Buzzard
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Dec 22nd, '10, 21:15
- Location: Feet Dry, Olympia, WA
-
Dean Abramson
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 11:23
- Location: CD 31 "Loda May"
In other words...
I edited out my more acerbic earlier post, because it was tacky, and because, frankly, I figured I was one step ahead of the moderators.
Here is my deal. Dick asked about rope types, drilling holes, and halyard ends' placement. But he wound up with a discussion, which, to put it mildly, is a bit more wide-ranging.
Wayward, I cannot really fathom which axes you are grinding half the time, but in any event, why not start your own thread for this potpourri of dogmatism, machismo, psychobabble and whatever else it is? Then I can jump in there and be rude, inappropriate, and childish, without hijacking a perfectly good (originally) thread.
Of course, the sun suddenly came out, warming Maine into the stratospheric 50's! So maybe I will work on the boat, instead of engaging in this type of "fun."
Dude, your opinions are fine. But is it really necessary to disparage others based on their opinions regarding halyard placement!!? That ain't a Sacred Cow. It's a big fat nothing. And this is coming from a guy who also likes his halyards at the mast.
We generally prefer to be a community here.
Dean
Here is my deal. Dick asked about rope types, drilling holes, and halyard ends' placement. But he wound up with a discussion, which, to put it mildly, is a bit more wide-ranging.
Wayward, I cannot really fathom which axes you are grinding half the time, but in any event, why not start your own thread for this potpourri of dogmatism, machismo, psychobabble and whatever else it is? Then I can jump in there and be rude, inappropriate, and childish, without hijacking a perfectly good (originally) thread.
Of course, the sun suddenly came out, warming Maine into the stratospheric 50's! So maybe I will work on the boat, instead of engaging in this type of "fun."
Dude, your opinions are fine. But is it really necessary to disparage others based on their opinions regarding halyard placement!!? That ain't a Sacred Cow. It's a big fat nothing. And this is coming from a guy who also likes his halyards at the mast.
We generally prefer to be a community here.
Dean
Dean Abramson
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
-
Maine_Buzzard
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Dec 22nd, '10, 21:15
- Location: Feet Dry, Olympia, WA
-
Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
