CD27 Sea Story

[Clay Stalker]

Hi folks:

Last weekend, as the remnants of hurricane Isadore roared through New England, I decided to attempt to keep a planned rendezvous with two Pacific Seacrafts about 10 miles up Narragansett Bay. It seemed that the winds from the night before had let up some, so I set out from Bristol Harbor at 10:00 a.m. on SALSA single-handed. Winds in the harbor were pretty heavy, but when I turned the corner at Poppasquash Point and headed into the bay, I was hit on the nose with a steady 30 knot breeze, regular gusts to 40 knots, and 6-foot breakers. I have to admit to being a bit frightened at first, but felt that the boat could take it. I was sailing with a single reef in the main and the 135 reefed down to 110. The boat just dug it, heeled over to 20-25 degrees, and literally charged up the bay at over 6 knots! I was truly amazed at the capability of this boat....not a sound from below...just as tight as she could be. Thank God for a solid dodger, as I still got soaked! I arrived about 2 hours later, and the Pacific Seacrafts were amazed! They said they did not expect me to show. Cape Dories are truly amazing boats...for anyone comtemplating purchasing one, they will take care of you even when you don't have sense enough to take care of yourself!!

Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa #247
Bristol Harbor, Rhode Island



cstalker@cheshire.net

[Pam M.]

Thanks for posting this. Yesterday afternoon I bought a sadly neglected CD27 -- and this morning woke up thinking "What have I done?" It was great to read this and know that I made a smart choice!

Pam
CD27 #21 (no name that I know of)
Seattle, Washington

Hi folks:

Last weekend, as the remnants of hurricane Isadore roared through New England, I decided to attempt to keep a planned rendezvous with two Pacific Seacrafts about 10 miles up Narragansett Bay. It seemed that the winds from the night before had let up some, so I set out from Bristol Harbor at 10:00 a.m. on SALSA single-handed. Winds in the harbor were pretty heavy, but when I turned the corner at Poppasquash Point and headed into the bay, I was hit on the nose with a steady 30 knot breeze, regular gusts to 40 knots, and 6-foot breakers. I have to admit to being a bit frightened at first, but felt that the boat could take it. I was sailing with a single reef in the main and the 135 reefed down to 110. The boat just dug it, heeled over to 20-25 degrees, and literally charged up the bay at over 6 knots! I was truly amazed at the capability of this boat....not a sound from below...just as tight as she could be. Thank God for a solid dodger, as I still got soaked! I arrived about 2 hours later, and the Pacific Seacrafts were amazed! They said they did not expect me to show. Cape Dories are truly amazing boats...for anyone comtemplating purchasing one, they will take care of you even when you don't have sense enough to take care of yourself!!

Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa #247
Bristol Harbor, Rhode Island

pmcall@aol.com

[Warren Kaplan]

Hi folks:

Last weekend, as the remnants of hurricane Isadore roared through New England, I decided to attempt to keep a planned rendezvous with two Pacific Seacrafts about 10 miles up Narragansett Bay. It seemed that the winds from the night before had let up some, so I set out from Bristol Harbor at 10:00 a.m. on SALSA single-handed. Winds in the harbor were pretty heavy, but when I turned the corner at Poppasquash Point and headed into the bay, I was hit on the nose with a steady 30 knot breeze, regular gusts to 40 knots, and 6-foot breakers. I have to admit to being a bit frightened at first, but felt that the boat could take it. I was sailing with a single reef in the main and the 135 reefed down to 110. The boat just dug it, heeled over to 20-25 degrees, and literally charged up the bay at over 6 knots! I was truly amazed at the capability of this boat....not a sound from below...just as tight as she could be. Thank God for a solid dodger, as I still got soaked! I arrived about 2 hours later, and the Pacific Seacrafts were amazed! They said they did not expect me to show. Cape Dories are truly amazing boats...for anyone comtemplating purchasing one, they will take care of you even when you don't have sense enough to take care of yourself!!

Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa #247
Bristol Harbor, Rhode Island

Great sail, Clay. Pretty soon those weather conditions will become "Ho-Hum" sailing conditions for you and the great CD27.
If you enjoyed the sail (even though wet) compliments of Isadore, you (we) may get a chance at an encore, from the remnants of Lili.
These boats are amazing.

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com

[Gary L.]

Hi folks:

Last weekend, as the remnants of hurricane Isadore roared through New England, I decided to attempt to keep a planned rendezvous with two Pacific Seacrafts about 10 miles up Narragansett Bay. It seemed that the winds from the night before had let up some, so I set out from Bristol Harbor at 10:00 a.m. on SALSA single-handed. Winds in the harbor were pretty heavy, but when I turned the corner at Poppasquash Point and headed into the bay, I was hit on the nose with a steady 30 knot breeze, regular gusts to 40 knots, and 6-foot breakers. I have to admit to being a bit frightened at first, but felt that the boat could take it. I was sailing with a single reef in the main and the 135 reefed down to 110. The boat just dug it, heeled over to 20-25 degrees, and literally charged up the bay at over 6 knots! I was truly amazed at the capability of this boat....not a sound from below...just as tight as she could be. Thank God for a solid dodger, as I still got soaked! I arrived about 2 hours later, and the Pacific Seacrafts were amazed! They said they did not expect me to show. Cape Dories are truly amazing boats...for anyone comtemplating purchasing one, they will take care of you even when you don't have sense enough to take care of yourself!!

Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa #247
Bristol Harbor, Rhode Island

Clay,

Sounds like you and "Salsa" had a great sail! Like Warren stated, this will become "ho-hum", but never-the-less exciting; and for Pam, the excitement begins, when you realize the greatness of our boats. I cease to be amazed at the boat's capabilities. It even makes me look like a sailor!

Enjoy.

Gary Lapine
Red Witch III
CD30C, #339




dory26@attbi.com

[Richard Feffer]

Understandably everyone on this board is biased toward Cape Dory!!! I previously owned a PS Dana 24. To this day I'm not sure if I made the right decision in selling it. I must admit, though, that I'm very happy with my CD30MKII. Can anyone on this board render an honest comparison between Cape Dory boats and Pacific Seacraft of comparable size?

Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.



RichFef@Optonline.net

[Warren Kaplan]

Understandably everyone on this board is biased toward Cape Dory!!! I previously owned a PS Dana 24. To this day I'm not sure if I made the right decision in selling it. I must admit, though, that I'm very happy with my CD30MKII. Can anyone on this board render an honest comparison between Cape Dory boats and Pacific Seacraft of comparable size?

Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.

Richard,
There is no way that Holly could look as happy strolling the decks of of a Pacific Seacraft as she does when aboard Adamarie. I don't know Dick. You have to keep your mind focused on what's important here!!

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com

[Clay Stalker]

Understandably everyone on this board is biased toward Cape Dory!!! I previously owned a PS Dana 24. To this day I'm not sure if I made the right decision in selling it. I must admit, though, that I'm very happy with my CD30MKII. Can anyone on this board render an honest comparison between Cape Dory boats and Pacific Seacraft of comparable size?

Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.

Richard:

Well, I have sailed on quite a few Pacific Seacrafts, notably a Flicka (regularly), a 31 and a 34, all owned by friends. They are extremely well built, very heavy for their length, and they sail very well in heavy weather. Flickas and Danas have sailed all over the world through all kinds of weather....I would not attempt to sail a Typhoon Senior, CD22, or even a 25 around the world, but I suppose folks may have done it. The real comparison comes in cost and beauty. This is really where the Cape Dory leaves Pacific Seacraft behind. Pacific Seacrafts are probably somewhat more solidly constructed, but in no way does their extra cost justify the difference. Also, although they are nice looking boats, they simply do not bring the stares and admiration that Cape Dories do. The Newport, R.I. Harbormaster called my CD27, Salsa, the "pick of the litter" a couple of weekends ago when he was going through the anchor field....nobody will ever call a Dana that! And, as far as sailing goes, the CD is simply a better sailing boat. Some PS folks may argue with me on that, but I have sailed both a lot and CDs are simply better in a wider range of conditions. Folks buy Pacific Seacrafts with a dream to sail around the world, and they putter around the coastline slower than most other boats. Folks buy Cape Dories because they fall in love with them and simply lose their minds! At least, that's what happened to me....

Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa #247
Bristol, R.I.
(Home: Keene, New Hampshire)




cstalker@cheshire.net

[Catherine Monaghan]

Dick

The Pacific Seacraft 31 and 34 were both on my list when we were shopping for a boat several years ago. You know what we chose. But if the price of the PS was more comparable to the cost of the CD, it would have been a more difficult choice.

By the way, there are several Pacific Seacrafts in our area and we see them often. One in particular, a Crealock 37, is kept just up the river from Realization so we often ride down the river with them, sit with them in the pond between the bridges while we're waiting for a bridge opening, and we talk. We also find ourselves racing with them. Realization, though she's only a 32-footer, always beats the 37. Why? I don't know. But we usually strike up a conversation while we're sailing next to them and Realization always pulls ahead.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay



catherine_monaghanNOSPAM@merck.com

[Mike Raehl]

Richard,
I'm not in the big leagues with your CD27, but I did singlehand my Typhoon on the back side of Isadore both Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. It is my first season and, like you, my confidence is building. I had intended to take a couple for their first sailing experience on Saturday but decided I couldn't handle the boat and two novice passengers at the same time. They went elsewhere and I sailed. With the working jib and a single reef on the main, the sailing was terrific. The boat was solid and steady. Sadly, I have just one more weekend before she is hauled for the winter.

Mike Raehl
Roberta Jane II
Typhoon #1958
Piermont, NY on the Hudson River



mikeraehl@telocity.com

[Warren Kaplan]

Understandably everyone on this board is biased toward Cape Dory!!! I previously owned a PS Dana 24. To this day I'm not sure if I made the right decision in selling it. I must admit, though, that I'm very happy with my CD30MKII. Can anyone on this board render an honest comparison between Cape Dory boats and Pacific Seacraft of comparable size?

Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.

Richard,
Pacific Seacraft, Hinckley, Morris and others all sell extremely well made, beautiful boats. But they come with a price tag to match. I believe some of that is paying for the name like a designer label on the back pocket of a good pair of bluejeans. I've been to some of the finest restaurants in NYC where the food was excellent and the bill outrageous and all I could think of was that I've been in many restaurants where the food was just as good (often better) and for half the price of well known restaurant. I think this is somewhat, although not perfectly analagous to comparing CD vs. PS. Of course we have to look at the older models because CD, as we all know, hasn't made a new boat in what, 12 years. I have heard that the "details" are better in a Pacific Seacraft. Things like electrical wire runs and the like are really top grade in PS boats while the CD electrical setup, as many of us have found out, is one of its true weak spots. But are differences like these so large that it warrants the huge cost differential between the boats. Of course it may depend on the sailing you like to do. If you are a weekend daysailor and never go out in winds above 15 knots and you sail in protected waters and single or double hand most of the time, do you need a Pacific Seacraft 37?? For that matter do you need one of the larger CDs? If, on the other hand you intend to sail for extended periods, in all kinds of water and weather then the expense for these boats may be justified. A lot of this is individual preference. I'll tell you what would be interesting (to me anyway). Let's compare a brand new year 2002 Pacific Seacraft 37 (Crealock, if memory serves) with a 2002 Robinhood 36, comparably equipped, for price and quality of workmanship etc. That would at least bring us into the 21st century with these boats and we can see if the large price discrepancy still exists. Whew! I am long winded sometimes, ain't I.

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com

[Joe Sankey]

Understandably everyone on this board is biased toward Cape Dory!!! I previously owned a PS Dana 24. To this day I'm not sure if I made the right decision in selling it. I must admit, though, that I'm very happy with my CD30MKII. Can anyone on this board render an honest comparison between Cape Dory boats and Pacific Seacraft of comparable size?

Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.

Warren, your thoughts are right on. I was considering a similar post, except I was recalling the late 70s and early 80s when CDs were considered to be pricey! Morris was just getting started and used much Spartan hardware. Also, at that time Pacific Seacraft and Morris sold kit boats, or unfinished boats. Some of the boats from that vintage are not up to Morris or PC "build" quality, either.

My perspective, as I looked longingly at a 24 PC Dana, is this: A CD is a coastal cruiser that is capable of being fitted out for offshore. A PC is an offshore boat that is often used for coastal cruising. I'm told our CD 30 would cost 125K to replace new. I'd then be faced with a new CD30 or a used PC 31 in the 80s or 90s. I'd likely go with the PC 31. My bank account assures me I won't have to make that decision. Since I first visited Tom Morris's yard in the 80s I've wanted a Morris; still can't spring for one, though.

Your idea about the Robinhood and the Crealock 37 is a good one.
Both are older designs using modern materials and components. Should be interesting.
Joe Sankey
CD 30 Slow Dance
Magnolia Springs, AL



sankey@gulftel.com

[Peter]

Every boat is a trade-off. Buy a boat that fits your current needs. Is there something the dana did better than your current CD? If not, what's the issue? There are a number of Crealocks in Door County, WI (NW Lake Michigan) and I think they are really out of their element in this coastal cruising environment. Sure I dream about blue water sailing, but I won't consider a Crealock until that dream becomes a reality. I think Clay hit it on the head; "Folks buy Pacific Seacrafts with a dream to sail around the world, and they putter around the coastline slower than most other boats." PS: When you're consistly passed by a CD, you know you're in a damn slow boat. If I had it to do over, I'd probably get a Tartan. Well built, great sailing boat and more room below.



peter@zwiefelhofer.com

[Peter]

Of course, I love my CD30, but I know it has its faults, like all boats do. One fault that bothers me is its lack of steering control in reverse. Since the Dana is also a full keel with attached rudder, I wonder if you could give us a comparison of steering ability in reverse on these two boats?



peter@zwiefelhofer.com

[Bill Goldsmith]

Dick,

I agree with the comments made below, and would be interested in what considerations led you to these musings. Here are some of my "objective" and "non-biased" thoughts about CDs. :^)

I've had a CD27 for five years and I think it's a winning combination of solid construction, seakindliness and sailing ability. When I stumbled across this board five years ago (which I found after doing an internet search after admiring a friend's CD28), I realized that CD sailboats provide a dynamite amount of *value*. Yes, they are more expensive than many makes of sailboats from the same era. But they are also alot *less* expensive than many other makes, such as those mentioned.

Would I fell comfortable taking my kids out in Block Island Sound in one of the less expensive makes? No. Would I feel equally comfortable in a well-found Cape Dory as in a well-found Pacific Seacraft? Yes.

Now that I am in the process of upsizing from the CD27 to the CD32 (not delivered yet), I can offer this observation: Costwise, one Pacific Seacraft = 2.4 Cape Dory 32s. (Or two CD 32s and a CD27). Therefore the decision point landed squarely on CD. Much, much more boat for the money, no meaningful difference in build quality and "pick of the litter" design.

Bill Goldsmith
Cd27#173
Second Chance
CD32#2
Loonsong

Understandably everyone on this board is biased toward Cape Dory!!! I previously owned a PS Dana 24. To this day I'm not sure if I made the right decision in selling it. I must admit, though, that I'm very happy with my CD30MKII. Can anyone on this board render an honest comparison between Cape Dory boats and Pacific Seacraft of comparable size?

Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.

goldy@bestweb.net

[Neil Gordon]

>>Of course, I love my CD30, but I know it has its faults, like all boats do. One fault that bothers me is its lack of steering control in reverse.<<

It's not a fault really, it's a compromise. Take out the full keel and substitute a fin and you'll steer in reverse. You won't sail the same going forward, though.

Regards, Neil (Who mostly sails going forward.)
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com