I recently bought a 1976 CD25 which I am trying to restore. In addition to some safety items (life-lines, stern pulpit, etc.) one of the first jobs on the list is to work on the badly cracking cabin sole. So far it is just cracked but I suspect in the not to distant future if it goes ignored I will eventually step through.
I am relatively new to sailing and bought this boat to test out my restoration skills (i.e. no previous fiberglass experience)! I have read the fiberglass chapter of This Old Boat and perused the $3.00 West System Manual with no clearer idea on how to proceed. My questions are as follows:
1. If I were so bold as to punch through the cracking floor, what would I find (stringers, bracing, or space between the floor and the hull)?
2. Any suggestions on how to proceed (simply add fiberglass layers over the existing floor, remove the floor and add support then build a new floor...)
3. Any other useful references for guidance?
Thanks in Advance,
Andy
atmcpm@danielisland.net
CD25 Cracked Cabin Sole
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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John M Freeman
Re: CD25 Cracked Cabin Sole
I can't give you any true advice Andy, but have a very similar problem that developed in the cockpit this past weekend on my 1975 CD25. Am interested in the same info for a similar problem.
capn_jack68@yahoo.com
capn_jack68@yahoo.com
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JimL
Re: CD25 Cracked Cabin Sole
Good evening, gentlemen. I experienced problems in both these area. As a matter of fact, I "stepped through" the cabin sole, forward near the head area.
To repair the cabin sole, I cut out pieces of the upper fiberglass skin (Dremel tool with cutting disk) until I got to dry balsa. With the rotten balsa cleaned out, I prepared a board to cover the area (a little oversize), some wax paper, and 2-part epoxy foam (available at auto body repair supply stores). I squeezed in some foam (note, it gets hot and expands some), then covered with wax paper, put the board on it and weighted it down with bricks.
I wound up with the floor a little high, but the transition is smooth. I used 4 layers of 6 oz. cloth with West epoxy resin dyed white. I did paint over the area after it cured. It's a strong fix, and my cabin has indoor-outdoor carpet cut to fit....so nobody sees my fix.
In the cockpit, I didn't have holes, but I did have big cracks. I thought I'd fix it later, so I tried to do a "patch" by cutting pieces of fiberglass cloth to fit. I mixed light blue dye into epoxy resin, then tried to neatly install the cloth.
What a MESS!! There is NO WAY to get multiple layers of cloth perfectly in place while trying to wet it out, then squeegee for non-skid effect. I couldn't make it around the teak ring, at the rudder post, so wound up cutting off the cloth halfway back and trying to straighten the edge. All of this while struggling with epoxy trying to run down the scuppers into my brand new ball valves.
The end result has good traction, has survived a season (barely), and looks so bad I sail solo nearly every time.
If I had it to do over, I'd make a piece of 1/4" marine ply that fits the cockpit perfectly. I'd finish it with fiberglass cloth and epoxy, squeegeed for non-skid effect, then painted to match the boat. This false floor would get glued in with some 4200, and I'd be done. I would consider raising the forward end about 1 1/2-2" because CD25s take water in the scuppers with 3-4 people in the cockpit. This would require some stringers and drain channels.
You can get a factory looking finish by laying strips of wax paper on the edges of the plywood/fiberglass part (the resin should be squeegeed off the cloth to get a non-skid pattern). Smooth the wax paper with a formica roller, or soft putty knife, or fingers....after the epoxy sets, the wax paper peels off and leaves a smooth surround.
Be pretty aggressive when squeegeeing out epoxy resin....it's really prone to "glossing over" the cloth. The wax paper trick will still work, after you've squeegeed.
To see this effect, on my cockpit locker lids, click on my website. The bottom of the first page has additional pages, where you can go and get a look at these lids (in the pictures of my boom clips...substitute for lazy jacks).
Regards, JimL
leinfam@earthlink.net
To repair the cabin sole, I cut out pieces of the upper fiberglass skin (Dremel tool with cutting disk) until I got to dry balsa. With the rotten balsa cleaned out, I prepared a board to cover the area (a little oversize), some wax paper, and 2-part epoxy foam (available at auto body repair supply stores). I squeezed in some foam (note, it gets hot and expands some), then covered with wax paper, put the board on it and weighted it down with bricks.
I wound up with the floor a little high, but the transition is smooth. I used 4 layers of 6 oz. cloth with West epoxy resin dyed white. I did paint over the area after it cured. It's a strong fix, and my cabin has indoor-outdoor carpet cut to fit....so nobody sees my fix.
In the cockpit, I didn't have holes, but I did have big cracks. I thought I'd fix it later, so I tried to do a "patch" by cutting pieces of fiberglass cloth to fit. I mixed light blue dye into epoxy resin, then tried to neatly install the cloth.
What a MESS!! There is NO WAY to get multiple layers of cloth perfectly in place while trying to wet it out, then squeegee for non-skid effect. I couldn't make it around the teak ring, at the rudder post, so wound up cutting off the cloth halfway back and trying to straighten the edge. All of this while struggling with epoxy trying to run down the scuppers into my brand new ball valves.
The end result has good traction, has survived a season (barely), and looks so bad I sail solo nearly every time.
If I had it to do over, I'd make a piece of 1/4" marine ply that fits the cockpit perfectly. I'd finish it with fiberglass cloth and epoxy, squeegeed for non-skid effect, then painted to match the boat. This false floor would get glued in with some 4200, and I'd be done. I would consider raising the forward end about 1 1/2-2" because CD25s take water in the scuppers with 3-4 people in the cockpit. This would require some stringers and drain channels.
You can get a factory looking finish by laying strips of wax paper on the edges of the plywood/fiberglass part (the resin should be squeegeed off the cloth to get a non-skid pattern). Smooth the wax paper with a formica roller, or soft putty knife, or fingers....after the epoxy sets, the wax paper peels off and leaves a smooth surround.
Be pretty aggressive when squeegeeing out epoxy resin....it's really prone to "glossing over" the cloth. The wax paper trick will still work, after you've squeegeed.
To see this effect, on my cockpit locker lids, click on my website. The bottom of the first page has additional pages, where you can go and get a look at these lids (in the pictures of my boom clips...substitute for lazy jacks).
Regards, JimL
leinfam@earthlink.net
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Will W.
Re: CD25 Cracked Cabin Sole
Hi John
The cockpit floor is something that many CDs have had to repair, including myself. About 2/3 of the core was wet or rotten; the result of a large crack in the top skin that went untreated for several years by the PO. Fix it as soon as you can. A small repair is a lot easier than doing large sections.
The West System manual for fiberglass repair explains the job but going at it the first time can be tough. Even with good advise it is hard to cut into that surface the first time. I know having done it once that I learned a lot and if I ever have to do this type of repair again I will do a much neater and faster job of it. I can send you the pictures I took along the way. I wanted to take pictures of every step. Unfortunatly in the middle of trying to get everything done before the epoxy dried meant I took no pictures of a large part of the job but they may help. E-mail me if you are interested.
As far as the cabin sole goes, I would think the repairs are not too much different. However I would be concerned about why this happened as well. It may be nothing but there may be some cabin deformation hepling create forces to weaken the sole. Maybe something heavy was just dropped on the floor.
Just an idea. It probably would be more expensive but not much more work than a regular repair but you could lay a nice wood floor. If the damage to the existing sole is not too bad you could epoxy it right onto the sole.
However if the damage is water related or has been worsened by water, you will need to fix this because it will only get worse. You have to dry or replace the core where water has intruded.
Just be sure you plan the repairs carefully, especially the removal of the old top skin and wet core. Be very careful to only cut through the top layer this is very important. If you can get the top layer off in one piece you will be able to reuse it and save a lot of hassle later on. This is not easy even on a small patch so be patient. Use a heat gun carefully to weaken the old bonding without blistering the surface all the while working a tool (take your pick, I used a couple of putty knives a chisel and a small bayonette) under the top skin to remove it.
My repair wound up being much larger than anticipated so in the end I just cut and chopped the old stuff out. I was forced by the size of the repair to remake the top layer and this is harder to get right. If you have to do it this way make sure you have help. It is very easy to get the fiberglass cloth bunched up or on crooked. It is also very easy to deform the cloth while cutting and moving it, so measure and cut carefully. The manual says the roller thing will help work it in while you "wet out" but this is also easier said than done, so make sure you and your helpers lay the cloth on the wet surface as close as ever you can. The job will go much smoother for it. Also it is easy to mix the epoxy too thin. A little practice at home mixing small amounts will eliminate on the spot guess work.
Good Luck!
Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
Sailing from Chesapeake Beach, MD
willwheatley@starpower.net
The cockpit floor is something that many CDs have had to repair, including myself. About 2/3 of the core was wet or rotten; the result of a large crack in the top skin that went untreated for several years by the PO. Fix it as soon as you can. A small repair is a lot easier than doing large sections.
The West System manual for fiberglass repair explains the job but going at it the first time can be tough. Even with good advise it is hard to cut into that surface the first time. I know having done it once that I learned a lot and if I ever have to do this type of repair again I will do a much neater and faster job of it. I can send you the pictures I took along the way. I wanted to take pictures of every step. Unfortunatly in the middle of trying to get everything done before the epoxy dried meant I took no pictures of a large part of the job but they may help. E-mail me if you are interested.
As far as the cabin sole goes, I would think the repairs are not too much different. However I would be concerned about why this happened as well. It may be nothing but there may be some cabin deformation hepling create forces to weaken the sole. Maybe something heavy was just dropped on the floor.
Just an idea. It probably would be more expensive but not much more work than a regular repair but you could lay a nice wood floor. If the damage to the existing sole is not too bad you could epoxy it right onto the sole.
However if the damage is water related or has been worsened by water, you will need to fix this because it will only get worse. You have to dry or replace the core where water has intruded.
Just be sure you plan the repairs carefully, especially the removal of the old top skin and wet core. Be very careful to only cut through the top layer this is very important. If you can get the top layer off in one piece you will be able to reuse it and save a lot of hassle later on. This is not easy even on a small patch so be patient. Use a heat gun carefully to weaken the old bonding without blistering the surface all the while working a tool (take your pick, I used a couple of putty knives a chisel and a small bayonette) under the top skin to remove it.
My repair wound up being much larger than anticipated so in the end I just cut and chopped the old stuff out. I was forced by the size of the repair to remake the top layer and this is harder to get right. If you have to do it this way make sure you have help. It is very easy to get the fiberglass cloth bunched up or on crooked. It is also very easy to deform the cloth while cutting and moving it, so measure and cut carefully. The manual says the roller thing will help work it in while you "wet out" but this is also easier said than done, so make sure you and your helpers lay the cloth on the wet surface as close as ever you can. The job will go much smoother for it. Also it is easy to mix the epoxy too thin. A little practice at home mixing small amounts will eliminate on the spot guess work.
Good Luck!
Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
Sailing from Chesapeake Beach, MD
John M Freeman wrote: I can't give you any true advice Andy, but have a very similar problem that developed in the cockpit this past weekend on my 1975 CD25. Am interested in the same info for a similar problem.
willwheatley@starpower.net