Broaching

[Chris Andreson]

I have been practicing sailing wing on wing with the mainsheet released significantly and the boom vang secured to stanchions on the appropriate side of the boat. One instance arose when the wind "got behind" the mainsail and forced a jibe. With the boom vang tight it created some unique movement in the boat not to mention my blood pressure. I was able to go forward and release the vang before things got ugly. I was very glad (and lucky) the wind was below 15 knots!

My question. What considerations do you take before setting the vang to either side of the boat? Also, what is broaching? I have read about it as a concern while on a broad reach or running, but I don't understand it fully.

Thanks,
Chris Anderson
CD 25D #56 Lark



cjanderson@milestonegroup.com

[john doyle]

I have been practicing sailing wing on wing with the mainsheet released significantly and the boom vang secured to stanchions on the appropriate side of the boat. One instance arose when the wind "got behind" the mainsail and forced a jibe. With the boom vang tight it created some unique movement in the boat not to mention my blood pressure. I was able to go forward and release the vang before things got ugly. I was very glad (and lucky) the wind was below 15 knots!

My question. What considerations do you take before setting the vang to either side of the boat? Also, what is broaching? I have read about it as a concern while on a broad reach or running, but I don't understand it fully.

Thanks,
Chris Anderson
CD 25D #56 Lark

Watch your jib & when it starts to jibe, the main will be next. The vang you are setting on the stancion base is now called a preventer & is used to keep the main from accidently jibing. A broach is when the boat usually runs down a wave and goes over to leeward putting the rig in the water. This usually happens when the boat exceeds hull speed and trips in the trough. You are using your preventer correctly & with practice will know when the wind is getting behind the sail.
John CD31 #18 Bonnie Blue



redzeplin@yahoo.com

[Randy Bates]

I have been practicing sailing wing on wing with the mainsheet released significantly and the boom vang secured to stanchions on the appropriate side of the boat. One instance arose when the wind "got behind" the mainsail and forced a jibe. With the boom vang tight it created some unique movement in the boat not to mention my blood pressure. I was able to go forward and release the vang before things got ugly. I was very glad (and lucky) the wind was below 15 knots!

My question. What considerations do you take before setting the vang to either side of the boat? Also, what is broaching? I have read about it as a concern while on a broad reach or running, but I don't understand it fully.

Thanks,
Chris Anderson
CD 25D #56 Lark

Watch your jib & when it starts to jibe, the main will be next. The vang you are setting on the stancion base is now called a preventer & is used to keep the main from accidently jibing. A broach is when the boat usually runs down a wave and goes over to leeward putting the rig in the water. This usually happens when the boat exceeds hull speed and trips in the trough. You are using your preventer correctly & with practice will know when the wind is getting behind the sail.
John CD31 #18 Bonnie Blue

Chris:
What you describe is exactly why running DEAD downwind in big air can get nasty fast. The easiest cure is to headup slightly so that both sails are on the same side. It also dampens/prevents the dreaded death rolls.

Randy Bates CD25D "Seraph"



randy.bates@baesystems.com

[brian]

a stantion base is not the best place to attach a preventer. You would be beter off attaching the vang to the bail at the end of the boom and running it forward, through the bow chaulk, and cleating it off.

That being said, you don't necessarily have to be going down a wave to broach. Back winding the main in the above scenario and not being able to release it in heavier winds is a good formula for a broach.

[Bill Goldsmith]

Chris,

I would prefer not to see preventers set by moving the vang to a stanchion base. The stanchion base is pretty stout on a CD, but probably not designed for that type of stress. Combine that with the fact that the vang attaches about 1/3 of the way aft on the boom, creating a sizeable lever arm in the event of the wind catching the back of the main. Even if you added heavy backing plates to the stanchion base installations, evetually the stress will work the bolts and cause leaks.

I prefer to run a preventer from the boom end. I tie a bowline (or you could rig a line with a shackle to the boom end) and run it forward through the bow mooring line chocks (the locking type) and then to the bow cleats. The boom-end load is lower and the attachment point stronger.

Some people run the preventer lines back to the cockpit from a block on the bow, which would enable you to set and release it quickly as needed. I would consider this option if expecting a long downwind run with shifty winds, but I haven't tried it yet.

Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
CD32#2
Loonsong

I have been practicing sailing wing on wing with the mainsheet released significantly and the boom vang secured to stanchions on the appropriate side of the boat. One instance arose when the wind "got behind" the mainsail and forced a jibe. With the boom vang tight it created some unique movement in the boat not to mention my blood pressure. I was able to go forward and release the vang before things got ugly. I was very glad (and lucky) the wind was below 15 knots!

My question. What considerations do you take before setting the vang to either side of the boat? Also, what is broaching? I have read about it as a concern while on a broad reach or running, but I don't understand it fully.

Thanks,
Chris Anderson
CD 25D #56 Lark

goldy@bestweb.net

[Larry DeMers]

Chris and Bill,

One technique that Larry and Lyn Pardey use is to rig a permanent preventer to the boom end, running it forward on the boom, and tieing it off on the boom at the gooseneck..when not in use. Then when it is needed, you simply untie it and run it forward to a good attachment point (deck mounted and backed up padeye or the anchor cleats as Bill mentioned).
I agree that the stanchions are probably not the best place to put the preventer for the reasons that Bill mentions...although, in lite winds, I admit to having done this and there are no problems associated with it as far as leaks go.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

Chris,

I would prefer not to see preventers set by moving the vang to a stanchion base. The stanchion base is pretty stout on a CD, but probably not designed for that type of stress. Combine that with the fact that the vang attaches about 1/3 of the way aft on the boom, creating a sizeable lever arm in the event of the wind catching the back of the main. Even if you added heavy backing plates to the stanchion base installations, evetually the stress will work the bolts and cause leaks.

I prefer to run a preventer from the boom end. I tie a bowline (or you could rig a line with a shackle to the boom end) and run it forward through the bow mooring line chocks (the locking type) and then to the bow cleats. The boom-end load is lower and the attachment point stronger.

Some people run the preventer lines back to the cockpit from a block on the bow, which would enable you to set and release it quickly as needed. I would consider this option if expecting a long downwind run with shifty winds, but I haven't tried it yet.

Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
CD32#2
Loonsong

I have been practicing sailing wing on wing with the mainsheet released significantly and the boom vang secured to stanchions on the appropriate side of the boat. One instance arose when the wind "got behind" the mainsail and forced a jibe. With the boom vang tight it created some unique movement in the boat not to mention my blood pressure. I was able to go forward and release the vang before things got ugly. I was very glad (and lucky) the wind was below 15 knots!

My question. What considerations do you take before setting the vang to either side of the boat? Also, what is broaching? I have read about it as a concern while on a broad reach or running, but I don't understand it fully.

Thanks,
Chris Anderson
CD 25D #56 Lark

demers@sgi.com

[Randy Bates]

Chris,

I would prefer not to see preventers set by moving the vang to a stanchion base. The stanchion base is pretty stout on a CD, but probably not designed for that type of stress. Combine that with the fact that the vang attaches about 1/3 of the way aft on the boom, creating a sizeable lever arm in the event of the wind catching the back of the main. Even if you added heavy backing plates to the stanchion base installations, evetually the stress will work the bolts and cause leaks.

I prefer to run a preventer from the boom end. I tie a bowline (or you could rig a line with a shackle to the boom end) and run it forward through the bow mooring line chocks (the locking type) and then to the bow cleats. The boom-end load is lower and the attachment point stronger.

Some people run the preventer lines back to the cockpit from a block on the bow, which would enable you to set and release it quickly as needed. I would consider this option if expecting a long downwind run with shifty winds, but I haven't tried it yet.

Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
CD32#2
Loonsong

I have been practicing sailing wing on wing with the mainsheet released significantly and the boom vang secured to stanchions on the appropriate side of the boat. One instance arose when the wind "got behind" the mainsail and forced a jibe. With the boom vang tight it created some unique movement in the boat not to mention my blood pressure. I was able to go forward and release the vang before things got ugly. I was very glad (and lucky) the wind was below 15 knots!

My question. What considerations do you take before setting the vang to either side of the boat? Also, what is broaching? I have read about it as a concern while on a broad reach or running, but I don't understand it fully.

Thanks,
Chris Anderson
CD 25D #56 Lark

Any preventer you rig MUST have the capability of beibg released easily and QUICKLY, preferably w/o having to leave the cockpit.



randy.bates@baesystems.com

[Chris Anderson]

Thank you for all the advise, one more question. Setting the boom vang to prevent the boom from swinging across was a sequential step to prepare to sail wing on wing on a run or broad reach. The next step would be to open up the jib with a whisker pole. Given all the comments and my own experience, an uncontrolled jibe with the whisker pole raised would seem pretty scary. Any comments? (Beyond make sure you don't jibe.)

Chris



cjanderson@milestonegroup.com

[Marc]

Hy Randy,
2 weeks ago my sails was set like you said "on the same side" and the wind was coming by back. I near lose control of my boat because i was going too fast. When the wind is on my back i really not sure about the best way to slow down without changing my course. Could you help me with this?

Marc
A22 #275

I have been practicing sailing wing on wing with the mainsheet released significantly and the boom vang secured to stanchions on the appropriate side of the boat. One instance arose when the wind "got behind" the mainsail and forced a jibe. With the boom vang tight it created some unique movement in the boat not to mention my blood pressure. I was able to go forward and release the vang before things got ugly. I was very glad (and lucky) the wind was below 15 knots!

My question. What considerations do you take before setting the vang to either side of the boat? Also, what is broaching? I have read about it as a concern while on a broad reach or running, but I don't understand it fully.

Thanks,
Chris Anderson
CD 25D #56 Lark

Watch your jib & when it starts to jibe, the main will be next. The vang you are setting on the stancion base is now called a preventer & is used to keep the main from accidently jibing. A broach is when the boat usually runs down a wave and goes over to leeward putting the rig in the water. This usually happens when the boat exceeds hull speed and trips in the trough. You are using your preventer correctly & with practice will know when the wind is getting behind the sail.
John CD31 #18 Bonnie Blue

Chris:
What you describe is exactly why running DEAD downwind in big air can get nasty fast. The easiest cure is to headup slightly so that both sails are on the same side. It also dampens/prevents the dreaded death rolls.

Randy Bates CD25D "Seraph"

adrenaline@vif.com

[Ken Canuck]

in series with a 12 of Moosehead.



kencanuckthepuck@aol.com

[Stan W.]

Your post strikes me as the kind of humor that would be fine as between friends, but close to crossing the line as between strangers. I'm sure you meant it in jest and hopefully Marc will take it in that spirit, but unless you know Marc well (or at least are Canadian yourself) I fear you may inadvertently cause some offense.



skicape@aol.com

[Serge Zimberoff]

Chris,
In my way of thinking, a preventer is ok if the air is very steady and you are on a long run where it is hard to be at the helm every minute. Under other conditions I usually sail just as I do going upwind, that is sailing by the luff of the jib, so to speak. When I have the jib out on a wing, I have it 'just' there. I test regularly by heading up a tad to be sure the jib is ready to come back across. Sailing this way my reactions are always ready to head up if the main even thinks about coming across.
However, if like me you occassionally nod off on a warm day and light air...just be sure to keep your head down!
Serge
Ty #1700 "Cloning Around"



serge@srtrop.com

[Marc]

It's ok, i can laught of it...but i did not answer the question...maybe i do'nt know how? ha! ha!

Marc

Your post strikes me as the kind of humor that would be fine as between friends, but close to crossing the line as between strangers. I'm sure you meant it in jest and hopefully Marc will take it in that spirit, but unless you know Marc well (or at least are Canadian yourself) I fear you may inadvertently cause some offense.

adrenaline@vif.com

[Marc]

Oups my english was incorrect...
It's ok, i can laught of it...but he did not answer the question...maybe he do'nt know how? ha! ha!


Marc

Your post strikes me as the kind of humor that would be fine as between friends, but close to crossing the line as between strangers. I'm sure you meant it in jest and hopefully Marc will take it in that spirit, but unless you know Marc well (or at least are Canadian yourself) I fear you may inadvertently cause some offense.

adrenaline@vif.com

[Laugh Police]

It's ok, i can laught of it...but i did not answer the question...maybe i do'nt know how? ha! ha!