CD 25 Weather helm

[Ed K]

Hi folks
Last evening I reached 12 knots on a broad reach in a 15 mile an hour wind! (ok, I know my knotmeter is broken but I'm not sure I want to fix it)
Anyway, I was getting more weather helm than I expected. I've read the threads on this board and understand that it could be caused by blown out sails or not enough weight forward.
My sails are old but seem to be in pretty good shape, how do you tell if they are "blown out?"
Also, I have a lot of weight in the stern. Which means the poor old boat does, too. I'm 260 lbs, there is the 8 horse evenrude, not to mention the crew who will mutiney if I mention her weight. We use her for daysailing so I've never filled the water tank - thinking about taking it out and putting some ballest in the forepeak. Maybe sandbags? Does this sound like a good idea? How much weight would it take to make a difference? Thanks
Ed K
CD 25 CAROLYN

[Ed Haley]

Blown out sails are usually stretchy in all directions. You could determine the amount of stretch by placing the sail on a smooth surface. Put the palms of your hand about two feet apart on the sail fabric, press hard and try to stretch the cloth. If you can stretch it, the sail could be past its prime.

As far as "ballast" in the forward sections of the boat to balance the weight in the stern, some sailors use sandbags (200 lbs or so) to mitigate the squatting. Me, I use 8 cases of beer under the bow berth. The forward weight works well in reducing the effects of chop and can be easily lightened at the end of the day!

Last week, we were doing 8.0 knots on a broad reach in 12 knots of true wind speed. Not too shabby for a Cape Dory. This was measured by GPS. Knotmeter read about the same.

Ed Haley
s/v Mokita
CD330 #1
Kingston, ON



eghaley(NOSPAM)@twcny.rr.com

[eric]

15 Knots is about the time when I would put a reef in Allia. That will solve your weather helm issue. With all the extra, um, ballast on board, you might not be heeled over as far as some in 15 knots, but the weather helm means you are probably have too much sail.

Eric Woodman
Allia
manchester, MA

Hi folks
Last evening I reached 12 knots on a broad reach in a 15 mile an hour wind! (ok, I know my knotmeter is broken but I'm not sure I want to fix it)
Anyway, I was getting more weather helm than I expected. I've read the threads on this board and understand that it could be caused by blown out sails or not enough weight forward.
My sails are old but seem to be in pretty good shape, how do you tell if they are "blown out?"
Also, I have a lot of weight in the stern. Which means the poor old boat does, too. I'm 260 lbs, there is the 8 horse evenrude, not to mention the crew who will mutiney if I mention her weight. We use her for daysailing so I've never filled the water tank - thinking about taking it out and putting some ballest in the forepeak. Maybe sandbags? Does this sound like a good idea? How much weight would it take to make a difference? Thanks
Ed K
CD 25 CAROLYN

[Will W.]

Why not fill the water tank with beer!
Seriously; before you modify her why don't you fill the water tank with water and see if the extra weight forward helps. You may decide it is worth changing the water occasionally vs making a permanent change to your boat.

Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25

Blown out sails are usually stretchy in all directions. You could determine the amount of stretch by placing the sail on a smooth surface. Put the palms of your hand about two feet apart on the sail fabric, press hard and try to stretch the cloth. If you can stretch it, the sail could be past its prime.

As far as "ballast" in the forward sections of the boat to balance the weight in the stern, some sailors use sandbags (200 lbs or so) to mitigate the squatting. Me, I use 8 cases of beer under the bow berth. The forward weight works well in reducing the effects of chop and can be easily lightened at the end of the day!

Last week, we were doing 8.0 knots on a broad reach in 12 knots of true wind speed. Not too shabby for a Cape Dory. This was measured by GPS. Knotmeter read about the same.

Ed Haley
s/v Mokita
CD330 #1
Kingston, ON

willwheatley@starpower.net

[john doyle]

Why not fill the water tank with beer!
Seriously; before you modify her why don't you fill the water tank with water and see if the extra weight forward helps. You may decide it is worth changing the water occasionally vs making a permanent change to your boat.

Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25

Blown out sails are usually stretchy in all directions. You could determine the amount of stretch by placing the sail on a smooth surface. Put the palms of your hand about two feet apart on the sail fabric, press hard and try to stretch the cloth. If you can stretch it, the sail could be past its prime.

As far as "ballast" in the forward sections of the boat to balance the weight in the stern, some sailors use sandbags (200 lbs or so) to mitigate the squatting. Me, I use 8 cases of beer under the bow berth. The forward weight works well in reducing the effects of chop and can be easily lightened at the end of the day!

Last week, we were doing 8.0 knots on a broad reach in 12 knots of true wind speed. Not too shabby for a Cape Dory. This was measured by GPS. Knotmeter read about the same.

Ed Haley
s/v Mokita
CD330 #1
Kingston, ON

Beer in the hold. Hope they are cans. I met a couple in the Bahamas that had 20 cases in their boat. They also had a blender & a little honda generator to make mixed drinks. Of course we were invited over. Ah, the cruising life.
John CD31 #18 Bonnie Blue



redzeplin@yahoo.com

[Ed Haley]

Will:
Right you are! I have all three water tanks full: strbd, prt & bow tanks. I also have cans of soda and jugs of water in the bow. You can't just throw them in there. Otherwise, a can or two would be holed and start leeking. Then you may have a smelly and sticky mess to clean up.

Try sailing closehauled for a bit on a nice flat-water day. Then have someone go forward and lay down in the bow berth for a few minutes. See if that increases your speed. If it does, then you know what to do.

Bottom line, it's fun to experiment and try to find ways to increase sailing performance. IMHO, of course!

Ed Haley
s/v Mokita
CD330 #1
Kingston, ON

P.S Being in Canada, I found an 11 letter word that all Canadians spell incorrectly. Can you think of it?



eghaley(NOSPAM)@twcny.rr.com

[Neil Gordon]

>>... thinking about taking it out and putting some ballest in the forepeak. Maybe sandbags?<<

Think about upgrading your ground tackle. An extra anchor and/or a boat length of chain would have some practical value vs sandbags.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Bob Dugan]

Hi folks
Last evening I reached 12 knots on a broad reach in a 15 mile an hour wind! (ok, I know my knotmeter is broken but I'm not sure I want to fix it)

My wife and I have "Cricket" a CD25D... last Tuesday off the mid-coast of Maine in what was forecast to be 15-20 knots of wind, but really ended up being 25-30+ knots we had the pleasure of experiencing 7.1 knots (with a double reefed main and partially furled no. 3 jib) for a few minutes as recorded on the GPS. I know the max hull speed is 5.7 knots, but I think we had some help from a squall, waves, tide, and the fact that we were on a broad reach.

This is the second time this season that Becky and I inadvertantly ended up in small craft advisory conditions... and we were very pleased with how much our boat seems to thrive in this weather. Both times we were terrified, mostly from lack of experience, but we learned a lot about what our little boat can do.

Another highlight of the day was our close hauled entrance into Casco Bay... we were very nervous about trying to tack into the bay with this 25-30 knot NW wind... so at first we tried dropping the jib, sheeting in the double reefed main tight, and motoring slightly off the wind.

After about 1.5 hours of watching Halfway Rock sit motionless off our starboard bow we realized that unless we did start going to windward under sail we were in for a very long unpleasant night.

We let out about 2/3 of the no. 3 jib with the double reefed main and were astounded by how well we started moving. We clawed our way into the bay and continued close hauled for several hours until we reached our mooring off Bustin's Island. It was so exhilirating and fun that we were fighting over who would get the helm on the next tack. Wow.

The only downside of the sail was that the next day we discovered we'd blown out part of the leech on the jib... it's a pretty old sail and did well by us in the strong wind... we're getting it patched and have plans to have a new one made this fall.

Bob & Becky Dugan
"Cricket" CD25D #092
Wayland, MA



bdugan@stonehill.edu

[JimL]

Make a lid for the top and use it to store small bottles of pure water. You'll have no worries about quality, and the weight will be in a decent spot. I've also partitioned my bilge and have the forward half filled with 20oz.drinking water bottles (in a long net bag so I can pull out the ones pushed far forward). This helps balance the boat, adds a little ballast, and keeps the drinking water out of light....which is a good thing. Great way to use the wasted space.

Regards, JimL, CD25 #21 Odyssey III



leinfam@earthlink.net

[David Wiencke]

15 Knots is about the time when I would put a reef in Allia. That will solve your weather helm issue. With all the extra, um, ballast on board, you might not be heeled over as far as some in 15 knots, but the weather helm means you are probably have too much sail.

Eric Woodman
Allia
manchester, MA

Hi folks
Last evening I reached 12 knots on a broad reach in a 15 mile an hour wind! (ok, I know my knotmeter is broken but I'm not sure I want to fix it)
Anyway, I was getting more weather helm than I expected. I've read the threads on this board and understand that it could be caused by blown out sails or not enough weight forward.
My sails are old but seem to be in pretty good shape, how do you tell if they are "blown out?"
Also, I have a lot of weight in the stern. Which means the poor old boat does, too. I'm 260 lbs, there is the 8 horse evenrude, not to mention the crew who will mutiney if I mention her weight. We use her for daysailing so I've never filled the water tank - thinking about taking it out and putting some ballest in the forepeak. Maybe sandbags? Does this sound like a good idea? How much weight would it take to make a difference? Thanks
Ed K
CD 25 CAROLYN

I had more weather helm than I liked with my cd25. I added about 150lbs of lead (lead shot melted into ingots)in the bilge under the mast and just forward of that point. With no-one on the boat the water line at the bow is about 2" lower than at the stern. With people on the boat she floats level on her intended waterline. This cured the weather helm problem. This was a trick I learned from my dad and his racing buddy Herm, who built the first fleet of fiberglass 23'seasprites (Alberg design)in East Greenwich, RI. Filling the water tank or having someone lie one the forward berth did not have the same effect. Maybe the center of gravity was to high? Another way to reduce weather helm is to adjust the standing rigging so that the mast tips forward by taking up on the headstay and letting off equally on the backstay. Of course you must readjust/tune the upper and lower sidestays to keep the mast in column.
Also check the cd25 "Lefty" website where there is a copy of a letter from the cd25 designer, Goerge Stadel, where he states that the cd25 (greenwich24)was designed to handle more balast, especially forward and low, which would improve performance.
David Wiencke
s/v serendipity
White Bear Lake,MN/Nippigon, Ont.



ashfordclinic@prodigy.net