frozen seacock - in the water - advice needed on "search" in

[Brian W.]

Hello all.

Was out on the boat last evening and found that the seacock under on the galley sink drain is frozen. We have a slight dripping leak (I think from the fresh water manifold - will post that separately once this prob is done) in that area, unrelated to the seacock. Putting rags in there to catch the slight drippings, apparently made for a moist environment under the sink, as the whole exterior of the seacock was "extra" green. Would seem this aided the freezing. Anyway...

Put some Liquid Wrench in the cracks and left it. Next step was to do a Search on the board. Since some of the advice was presumably for "on the hard" situations, etc., thought I'd ask for some confirmations

1) read about getting a gallon of WD-40 and pouring it in the hose. we're stuck in the "closed" position. would this be a good idea? might be a dumb question, but does penetrating oil have any corrosive effects on the rubber hose from the drain to the seacock (not looknig to disconnect the hose, for fear of not getting it back on and snug).

2) thought of backing off the two nuts ever so little and giving a tap with a hammer and block of wood to try to unseat the corrosion. obviously don't want to back off too much since it's in the water. is this idea in general a bad idea if not out of the water?

3) read about using a monkey wrench (should have read that before snapping a handle several years ago). the wrench should be tightened around the "fork" of the handle where it connects to the barrel, correct? can one then give this some force? or is there still the possibility of damage?

Thanks for any help.

Best regards,

Brian W.
CD33

[Larry DeMers]

Brian,

This sounds like a case for penetrating oil, not WD40. But first try your idea of backing off the seacocks nut a little and tapping it gently, trying to dislodge the barrel..should work if not too badly corroded. Then go to a penetrating oil if there is no joy.
I would not try to horse the handle around if it is frozen..even with a crescent wrench. You need to maybe block that thru hull off from the outside (vaseline coated plumbers plunger over the thru hull, compressed a little to allow the water to be sucked up intot he thru hull when the seacock is pulled out. You will get a little water flow at first, but the plunger should block all/most water while the seacock is worked on. You might want someone in the water to hold it there to be sure..or that may not be needed at all.;^)

But this way, you could remove it entirely, and repair it before replacing it. We use this method up here on Superior, and it has been ok..not perfect. For one, you gotta be quick as the water is usually in the low 50's at best, and it is amazing how fast one turns really blue from the water, in that temp.

Good Luck,

Larry Demers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

Hello all.

Was out on the boat last evening and found that the seacock under on the galley sink drain is frozen. We have a slight dripping leak (I think from the fresh water manifold - will post that separately once this prob is done) in that area, unrelated to the seacock. Putting rags in there to catch the slight drippings, apparently made for a moist environment under the sink, as the whole exterior of the seacock was "extra" green. Would seem this aided the freezing. Anyway...

Put some Liquid Wrench in the cracks and left it. Next step was to do a Search on the board. Since some of the advice was presumably for "on the hard" situations, etc., thought I'd ask for some confirmations

1) read about getting a gallon of WD-40 and pouring it in the hose. we're stuck in the "closed" position. would this be a good idea? might be a dumb question, but does penetrating oil have any corrosive effects on the rubber hose from the drain to the seacock (not looknig to disconnect the hose, for fear of not getting it back on and snug).

2) thought of backing off the two nuts ever so little and giving a tap with a hammer and block of wood to try to unseat the corrosion. obviously don't want to back off too much since it's in the water. is this idea in general a bad idea if not out of the water?

3) read about using a monkey wrench (should have read that before snapping a handle several years ago). the wrench should be tightened around the "fork" of the handle where it connects to the barrel, correct? can one then give this some force? or is there still the possibility of damage?

Thanks for any help.

Best regards,

Brian W.
CD33

demers@sgi.com

[Randy Bates]

Larry:
Who do you get to go into 50 degree water? Now that's what I'd call a true friend! I'd last about 10 seconds in 50 degree water, maybe less! But then I'm from the Gulf of Mexico.

Brian,

This sounds like a case for penetrating oil, not WD40. But first try your idea of backing off the seacocks nut a little and tapping it gently, trying to dislodge the barrel..should work if not too badly corroded. Then go to a penetrating oil if there is no joy.
I would not try to horse the handle around if it is frozen..even with a crescent wrench. You need to maybe block that thru hull off from the outside (vaseline coated plumbers plunger over the thru hull, compressed a little to allow the water to be sucked up intot he thru hull when the seacock is pulled out. You will get a little water flow at first, but the plunger should block all/most water while the seacock is worked on. You might want someone in the water to hold it there to be sure..or that may not be needed at all.;^)

But this way, you could remove it entirely, and repair it before replacing it. We use this method up here on Superior, and it has been ok..not perfect. For one, you gotta be quick as the water is usually in the low 50's at best, and it is amazing how fast one turns really blue from the water, in that temp.

Good Luck,

Larry Demers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

Hello all.

Was out on the boat last evening and found that the seacock under on the galley sink drain is frozen. We have a slight dripping leak (I think from the fresh water manifold - will post that separately once this prob is done) in that area, unrelated to the seacock. Putting rags in there to catch the slight drippings, apparently made for a moist environment under the sink, as the whole exterior of the seacock was "extra" green. Would seem this aided the freezing. Anyway...

Put some Liquid Wrench in the cracks and left it. Next step was to do a Search on the board. Since some of the advice was presumably for "on the hard" situations, etc., thought I'd ask for some confirmations

1) read about getting a gallon of WD-40 and pouring it in the hose. we're stuck in the "closed" position. would this be a good idea? might be a dumb question, but does penetrating oil have any corrosive effects on the rubber hose from the drain to the seacock (not looknig to disconnect the hose, for fear of not getting it back on and snug).

2) thought of backing off the two nuts ever so little and giving a tap with a hammer and block of wood to try to unseat the corrosion. obviously don't want to back off too much since it's in the water. is this idea in general a bad idea if not out of the water?

3) read about using a monkey wrench (should have read that before snapping a handle several years ago). the wrench should be tightened around the "fork" of the handle where it connects to the barrel, correct? can one then give this some force? or is there still the possibility of damage?

Thanks for any help.

Best regards,

Brian W.
CD33

randy.bates@baesystems.com

[matt cawthorne]

Brian,?br? Don't pour a gallon or even a cup of wd40 in the drain. Firstly, the seacock is likely to be below the water line. When the seacock was closed there probably was water filling it and even above it. The wd-40 will float on the water and not reach the seacock unless it is leaking. Additionally, if it did work, you would be dumping a gallon (or a cup) of oil in the water as soon as you opened it. Doing an operation like this with prior knowledge of the fact that oil will go into the water would leave you liable for prosecution. More importantly, it is not good for the fish and birds.?p? I have heard that a foam plug the same diameter as the ID of the through hull will stop the water nicely. It can be punched out when the seacock is open by pushing a stick down through the seacock. You then can withdrawl the stick really fast and close the seacock. If your seacock had been working and you just wanted to grease it while the boat is in the water you can make a foam plug (somewhat longer than the diameter of the barrel and with a taper on the end) , pull the hose off, put the foam plug in, open the seacock, push the foam plug through the seacock and into the through hull and then work on the seacock. Never tried it myself. Sounds like it would work better with a ball valve. ?p? If you "tap" on the end of the seacock, make certain that you put the nuts on the end to prevent damaging the threads.?p?Matt



mcawthor@bellatlantic.net

[Larry DeMers]

There lies the problem..no bodies to assign these tasks! Heh..a few years ago, a friend got their dinghy painter wrapped securely around the prop shaft on a C&C29. They got to anchor ok, but then started to try and figure a method to remedy the situation. I tried going in, and made it up to my chest..but I could not breath and I was already shaking so I came out. Then the boat owner did it, and had a near heart attack. Then we spotted some kids on a PWC and waved them over, since they were wearing a dive suit top. They wouldn't touch it. So then we turned to another boater that came by, and he was a diver. Had the full wet suit, and got to the prop without problems.

Usually the seacock type problems are repaired at the dock, and that water might be 20 deg. warmer than the lake temps. Just depends on the last weather system through. Our marina was 53 deg. last weekend. So we stay out of the water alot! Soon though, we should have places that are up in the mid-70's, and there we spend hours in the water. Usually these are coves amd bays that have been exposed to the waves for a day or two, which scoops up the warmed surface water and deposits it in these bays that then trap that water. The entire water column is nice warmed water..until you find the point where the warmed water ends..and it is like a light was switched off!
heh..

Enough Lake Lore..Cheers~!


Larry DeMers

Larry:
Who do you get to go into 50 degree water? Now that's what I'd call a true friend! I'd last about 10 seconds in 50 degree water, maybe less! But then I'm from the Gulf of Mexico.

Brian,

This sounds like a case for penetrating oil, not WD40. But first try your idea of backing off the seacocks nut a little and tapping it gently, trying to dislodge the barrel..should work if not too badly corroded. Then go to a penetrating oil if there is no joy.
I would not try to horse the handle around if it is frozen..even with a crescent wrench. You need to maybe block that thru hull off from the outside (vaseline coated plumbers plunger over the thru hull, compressed a little to allow the water to be sucked up intot he thru hull when the seacock is pulled out. You will get a little water flow at first, but the plunger should block all/most water while the seacock is worked on. You might want someone in the water to hold it there to be sure..or that may not be needed at all.;^)

But this way, you could remove it entirely, and repair it before replacing it. We use this method up here on Superior, and it has been ok..not perfect. For one, you gotta be quick as the water is usually in the low 50's at best, and it is amazing how fast one turns really blue from the water, in that temp.

Good Luck,

Larry Demers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

Hello all.

Was out on the boat last evening and found that the seacock under on the galley sink drain is frozen. We have a slight dripping leak (I think from the fresh water manifold - will post that separately once this prob is done) in that area, unrelated to the seacock. Putting rags in there to catch the slight drippings, apparently made for a moist environment under the sink, as the whole exterior of the seacock was "extra" green. Would seem this aided the freezing. Anyway...

Put some Liquid Wrench in the cracks and left it. Next step was to do a Search on the board. Since some of the advice was presumably for "on the hard" situations, etc., thought I'd ask for some confirmations

1) read about getting a gallon of WD-40 and pouring it in the hose. we're stuck in the "closed" position. would this be a good idea? might be a dumb question, but does penetrating oil have any corrosive effects on the rubber hose from the drain to the seacock (not looknig to disconnect the hose, for fear of not getting it back on and snug).

2) thought of backing off the two nuts ever so little and giving a tap with a hammer and block of wood to try to unseat the corrosion. obviously don't want to back off too much since it's in the water. is this idea in general a bad idea if not out of the water?

3) read about using a monkey wrench (should have read that before snapping a handle several years ago). the wrench should be tightened around the "fork" of the handle where it connects to the barrel, correct? can one then give this some force? or is there still the possibility of damage?

Thanks for any help.

Best regards,

Brian W.
CD33

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

Matt,
When you are right..ya hit a homer! Absolutely..my advice about using a penetrating oil is totally bogus in this instance..it's in the water after all..and I missed that part.

Back to the drawing board...

Larry DeMers

Brian,?br? Don't pour a gallon or even a cup of wd40 in the drain. Firstly, the seacock is likely to be below the water line. When the seacock was closed there probably was water filling it and even above it. The wd-40 will float on the water and not reach the seacock unless it is leaking. Additionally, if it did work, you would be dumping a gallon (or a cup) of oil in the water as soon as you opened it. Doing an operation like this with prior knowledge of the fact that oil will go into the water would leave you liable for prosecution. More importantly, it is not good for the fish and birds.?p? I have heard that a foam plug the same diameter as the ID of the through hull will stop the water nicely. It can be punched out when the seacock is open by pushing a stick down through the seacock. You then can withdrawl the stick really fast and close the seacock. If your seacock had been working and you just wanted to grease it while the boat is in the water you can make a foam plug (somewhat longer than the diameter of the barrel and with a taper on the end) , pull the hose off, put the foam plug in, open the seacock, push the foam plug through the seacock and into the through hull and then work on the seacock. Never tried it myself. Sounds like it would work better with a ball valve. ?p? If you "tap" on the end of the seacock, make certain that you put the nuts on the end to prevent damaging the threads.?p?Matt

demers@sgi.com

[Matt cawthorne]

Larry,
I did not say that penetrating oil would not help. It just has to go on the outside of the unit, not delivered through the drain.

Matt




mcawthor@bellatlantic.net

[Larry DeMers]

Correct, but the fact that the oil will eventaully find it's way in to the water is what I was recoiling at. That has to be guarded against of course, and is the primary consideration. No fouled water.

Larry Demers

Larry,
I did not say that penetrating oil would not help. It just has to go on the outside of the unit, not delivered through the drain.

Matt

demers@sgi.com

[Neil Gordon]

Do you really want to trust your boat to a friend in 50 degree water keeping the sea out with a $2.99 plunger? Consider the value of a CD33, and the result of something going wrong with an in-the-water seacock repair, (would you trust your life to a foam plug in lieu of a seacock?) I'd get a quote from the nearest travel lift operator on the cost of a short haul.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[John R.]

A big ditto to Neils very wise observations.

Do you really want to trust your boat to a friend in 50 degree water keeping the sea out with a $2.99 plunger? Consider the value of a CD33, and the result of something going wrong with an in-the-water seacock repair, (would you trust your life to a foam plug in lieu of a seacock?) I'd get a quote from the nearest travel lift operator on the cost of a short haul.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167

[skipper]

Hello all.

Was out on the boat last evening and found that the seacock under on the galley sink drain is frozen. We have a slight dripping leak (I think from the fresh water manifold - will post that separately once this prob is done) in that area, unrelated to the seacock. Putting rags in there to catch the slight drippings, apparently made for a moist environment under the sink, as the whole exterior of the seacock was "extra" green. Would seem this aided the freezing. Anyway...

Put some Liquid Wrench in the cracks and left it. Next step was to do a Search on the board. Since some of the advice was presumably for "on the hard" situations, etc., thought I'd ask for some confirmations

1) read about getting a gallon of WD-40 and pouring it in the hose. we're stuck in the "closed" position. would this be a good idea? might be a dumb question, but does penetrating oil have any corrosive effects on the rubber hose from the drain to the seacock (not looknig to disconnect the hose, for fear of not getting it back on and snug).

2) thought of backing off the two nuts ever so little and giving a tap with a hammer and block of wood to try to unseat the corrosion. obviously don't want to back off too much since it's in the water. is this idea in general a bad idea if not out of the water?

3) read about using a monkey wrench (should have read that before snapping a handle several years ago). the wrench should be tightened around the "fork" of the handle where it connects to the barrel, correct? can one then give this some force? or is there still the possibility of damage?

Thanks for any help.

Best regards,

Brian W.
CD33

We used a rubber mallot and a little oil on a couple of frozen seacock handles and it eventually worked. We just kept at it. Be gentle, but firm. You don't want to break the handle. Now, we work the handles occasionally to keep them from freezing up again---no more leaving them up or down for months at a time!

good Luck!



spyronica@aol.com