Tacking Angles

[Warren Kaplan]

For the cruising sailor, like most of us are, sailing to an upwind destination requires a series of tacks. (Gee Warren I didn't know that!). For many of us, the decision on when to tack is largely determined by glancing over a shoulder and announcing to the crew (if you have any aboard) "Let's tack". Not much science or precision in that decision, just gut feeling and experience of knowing what your boat will do. Mind you, gut feeling and experience can be the best parameter sometimes. I've been reading a few articles on tacking angles and I've come to the conclusion that its part science and part art. Certainly the professional racers (Americas cup and the like) have sophisitcated wind instruments and computers chocked full of software that take in data on windspeed, ocean conditions, tide and current, compass courses etc and spit out EXACTLY when you should tack. But I'm a sailor who wants to sail, not spend my waking hours keying in data to a laptop. I've read about devices like Accu Tack, and wrist watches with rotating bezels that can help with tacking angles. And there's plenty more to be bought if you want. Now that the preamble is over I want to get some opinions on how you determine when to tack. Long tacks or short tacks. A set of parameters first. We are cruising, not racing, and time is not important in that we are not necessarily looking for the fastest transit. I realize that wind speed and sea conditions play a part in determinations but for our purposes the wind is blowing at 12 knots and the sea state is not a factor here. Your boat will tack thru 90 degrees. Your destination is due north bearing 0 degrees M (or 360 if you like) and is 10 miles away. The wind is blowing directly from there (0 degrees). You have unlimited sea room on either tack and the water depth is uniformly 40 feet. Steady wind with no wind shifts (or very few). You start your voyage on one tack or the other. Eventually you will have to tack. Whats your plan? One long tack until you can lay the destination on the other tack? How would you determine that? A series of "shorter" tacks? Would you use some sort of instrument (compass, GPS, special electronics) to determine when to do your tacks or would you do it by captain's judgement? What's your opinion?

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com

[Ken Coit]

Can't resist this one.

Under all those ideal conditions, I'd tack once and probably overstand on the first leg just to make sure. No sense in exercising the crew when you could be enjoying a nice sail or having to short tack at the destination when there are probably other things to consider such as the location of the mooring or the party barge.

Lazy? Yep!

Now if I were racing, the crew might get a workout while we tried to stay far ahead and minimize the risk of one or more of your ideal conditions deteriorating.

Keep on sailing, why tack?

Ken Coit
CD/36 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC

For the cruising sailor, like most of us are, sailing to an upwind destination requires a series of tacks. (Gee Warren I didn't know that!). For many of us, the decision on when to tack is largely determined by glancing over a shoulder and announcing to the crew (if you have any aboard) "Let's tack". Not much science or precision in that decision, just gut feeling and experience of knowing what your boat will do. Mind you, gut feeling and experience can be the best parameter sometimes. I've been reading a few articles on tacking angles and I've come to the conclusion that its part science and part art. Certainly the professional racers (Americas cup and the like) have sophisitcated wind instruments and computers chocked full of software that take in data on windspeed, ocean conditions, tide and current, compass courses etc and spit out EXACTLY when you should tack. But I'm a sailor who wants to sail, not spend my waking hours keying in data to a laptop. I've read about devices like Accu Tack, and wrist watches with rotating bezels that can help with tacking angles. And there's plenty more to be bought if you want. Now that the preamble is over I want to get some opinions on how you determine when to tack. Long tacks or short tacks. A set of parameters first. We are cruising, not racing, and time is not important in that we are not necessarily looking for the fastest transit. I realize that wind speed and sea conditions play a part in determinations but for our purposes the wind is blowing at 12 knots and the sea state is not a factor here. Your boat will tack thru 90 degrees. Your destination is due north bearing 0 degrees M (or 360 if you like) and is 10 miles away. The wind is blowing directly from there (0 degrees). You have unlimited sea room on either tack and the water depth is uniformly 40 feet. Steady wind with no wind shifts (or very few). You start your voyage on one tack or the other. Eventually you will have to tack. Whats your plan? One long tack until you can lay the destination on the other tack? How would you determine that? A series of "shorter" tacks? Would you use some sort of instrument (compass, GPS, special electronics) to determine when to do your tacks or would you do it by captain's judgement? What's your opinion?

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY

parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Captain Kaplan,

First, WHO said we are NOT racing????? Second, Sir, have you been at the Grog, with a little too much time on our hands?

OK, now let's get serious. If Hanalei is on Port tack, and Sine Qua Non is overtaking to windward of me(also on Port tack), I will tack to Starboard (slowly head up)whenever safety says that I will clear SQN's bow. I will try to make it close, so that SQN must head up as I am now on Starboard tack! If SQN is not "Mast Abeam", Hanalei has the right of way, and SQN MUST head up! SQN will be forced to head up, thus loosing hull speed, and coming off the rumb line even more. You Sir, may hear the hail "Starboard" as this occurs, as I am demanding right-of-way, as is my right

OK, that said, let's really get serious. Plot your scenario on a piece of paper. If I remember right, you said wind is directly from the mark. This is VERY seldom the case, usually it is some degrees Port or Starboard of the rhumb (not RUM, rhumb!) line. If it were, each tack will be like creating a new rung on a ladder. Sometimes the Port tack will gain advantage to weather, sometimes the Starboard tack will gain. THIS is exactly what all the tactics computers, or Dennis Connor types figure out, when to tack to take most advantage of the working angles. It is NOT just how close the other guy is...the CLASSIC example is what happened in last years RACE. Hanalei tacked to the Northeast away from the entire rest of the fleet, it was frightening, but the right thing to do. It only took one tack, but the gained advantage got Hanalei into port 15 minutes ahead of the closest contender! Tides, and wind got behind Hanalei, and the rest is HISTORY!!!!!(Look up the RACE with the search engine, I wrote up what I did there somewhere.)

We may see all of this come to play during the RACE this summer, as we will have two directions of tide to play with and different winds from different directions. (Thought I picked an easy route, did ya?)

Of course, the "Let's tack!"(actually "Ready About") command can not be given lightly, particularly if the crew has just gotten braced to windward and she's rubbing her shoulders from trimming that D@#$ sheet! Things have been known to fly around the cockpit if tacks are called for to often!

When to tack? I guess it depends on which tack will give you the most advantage to windward. A LOT depends on that, tides, currents, wind speed and direction etc. In the end, it is the Captains' judgement, that is why it is SO lonely up here!

Yours Sir, I remain your most HUMBLE servant.......

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE ! ! !

[Don Carr]

Warren;
This is a great topic. IMHO your sail plan (tactics if you will) are based on the characteristics of the boat. Our boats in general don't have whiplash like acceleration and the old adage sail the longest leg
first comes to mind. I agree with Ken one long close hauled leg overstanding then a nice tack to come to a close reach or beam reach to the target. Tacks are real boat speed killers-IMHO short tacks are for going up narrow channels where you have no other options. Short tacks for boats that actually accelerate.
I often use a GPS to verify VMG to target because even cruisers should be somewhat concerned with reasonable performance.



carrds@us.ibm.com

[Hanalei]

Captain Coit,

Tack on up here next summer Captain. I will be standing on the shoreline in front of the Watch Hill Inn as you anchore, waiting while they set up the "Party Barge".

Yours, Sir.......

Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

[Hanalei]

Captain Carr,

Not a racer are we???? Yes, this is a great topic, can't wait to see what stirs up....

Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

[Joel]

I've found it to be true that when one sailor spots another, at least one of them starts racing.

Joel
s/y Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY

[Warren Kaplan]

Captain Kaplan,

First, WHO said we are NOT racing????? Second, Sir, have you been at the Grog, with a little too much time on our hands?

OK, now let's get serious. If Hanalei is on Port tack, and Sine Qua Non is overtaking to windward of me(also on Port tack), I will tack to Starboard (slowly head up)whenever safety says that I will clear SQN's bow. I will try to make it close, so that SQN must head up as I am now on Starboard tack! If SQN is not "Mast Abeam", Hanalei has the right of way, and SQN MUST head up! SQN will be forced to head up, thus loosing hull speed, and coming off the rumb line even more. You Sir, may hear the hail "Starboard" as this occurs, as I am demanding right-of-way, as is my right

OK, that said, let's really get serious. Plot your scenario on a piece of paper. If I remember right, you said wind is directly from the mark. This is VERY seldom the case, usually it is some degrees Port or Starboard of the rhumb (not RUM, rhumb!) line. If it were, each tack will be like creating a new rung on a ladder. Sometimes the Port tack will gain advantage to weather, sometimes the Starboard tack will gain. THIS is exactly what all the tactics computers, or Dennis Connor types figure out, when to tack to take most advantage of the working angles. It is NOT just how close the other guy is...the CLASSIC example is what happened in last years RACE. Hanalei tacked to the Northeast away from the entire rest of the fleet, it was frightening, but the right thing to do. It only took one tack, but the gained advantage got Hanalei into port 15 minutes ahead of the closest contender! Tides, and wind got behind Hanalei, and the rest is HISTORY!!!!!(Look up the RACE with the search engine, I wrote up what I did there somewhere.)

We may see all of this come to play during the RACE this summer, as we will have two directions of tide to play with and different winds from different directions. (Thought I picked an easy route, did ya?)

Of course, the "Let's tack!"(actually "Ready About") command can not be given lightly, particularly if the crew has just gotten braced to windward and she's rubbing her shoulders from trimming that D@#$ sheet! Things have been known to fly around the cockpit if tacks are called for to often!

When to tack? I guess it depends on which tack will give you the most advantage to windward. A LOT depends on that, tides, currents, wind speed and direction etc. In the end, it is the Captains' judgement, that is why it is SO lonely up here!

Yours Sir, I remain your most HUMBLE servant.......

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE ! ! !

Captain Stump,
A masterful response I must say. I am awed by your command of tactics, Sir. "Starboard, right-of-way boat, keep clear, mast abeam". I confess the nitty gritty (very nautical) of the racing rules has dwindled somewhat in my mind. But this rule I do know. If all the revered captain of the good ship Hanelei gets to see of Sine Qua Non is her name on her transom, then SQN has to yield to no vessel. Captain Stump, perhaps you can do me a service? On the appointed day when you finally get into port, perhaps you can tell me how SQN's new mainsail sets on all points of sail when viewed from astern. I suspect you will be in the best position all day to make that observation!

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27 #166
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com

[Mario]

Yeah, we beat a Hunter 32 once and rejoiced the entire weekend.

Mario

I've found it to be true that when one sailor spots another, at least one of them starts racing.

Joel
s/y Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY

capedory252NOSPAM@aol.com

[bobm]

whenever I'm caught, Im not racing and that person must be using his engine
whenever I catch someone we are both racing

Last year we chartered a 50' beneteau in the brit virgins and for 7 days we caught every boat we went after and were only caught once from behind and that was a new 50' sun odessy-and I was the one at the helm when we were caught and passed- and I did not live it down for the rest of the trip. The crew was my wife-super expericnced j24 racer, my dad and mom-a world cruiser, my brother-laser champ in Indiana (never knew they had sailing there) and my other brother and accompanying wives of relative good sailing experience-THIS was ONE BIG NoITAll FEST...whoever had the helm, for 7 days, was getting advice from 7 different people on sail trim, tacking angles, and oversteering, all from experts in various forms of sobriety...
after the trip, and after spending big bucks to get there, charter the boat (my parents picked up that entire tab for the charter) and all the $ spent on booze, my wife tells all that she likes sailing in maine better than the virgins-boy did that go over well
Bobm



merrick@pop.net

[Jerry Axler]

For the cruising sailor, like most of us are, sailing to an upwind destination requires a series of tacks. (Gee Warren I didn't know that!). For many of us, the decision on when to tack is largely determined by glancing over a shoulder and announcing to the crew (if you have any aboard) "Let's tack". Not much science or precision in that decision, just gut feeling and experience of knowing what your boat will do. Mind you, gut feeling and experience can be the best parameter sometimes. I've been reading a few articles on tacking angles and I've come to the conclusion that its part science and part art. Certainly the professional racers (Americas cup and the like) have sophisitcated wind instruments and computers chocked full of software that take in data on windspeed, ocean conditions, tide and current, compass courses etc and spit out EXACTLY when you should tack. But I'm a sailor who wants to sail, not spend my waking hours keying in data to a laptop. I've read about devices like Accu Tack, and wrist watches with rotating bezels that can help with tacking angles. And there's plenty more to be bought if you want. Now that the preamble is over I want to get some opinions on how you determine when to tack. Long tacks or short tacks. A set of parameters first. We are cruising, not racing, and time is not important in that we are not necessarily looking for the fastest transit. I realize that wind speed and sea conditions play a part in determinations but for our purposes the wind is blowing at 12 knots and the sea state is not a factor here. Your boat will tack thru 90 degrees. Your destination is due north bearing 0 degrees M (or 360 if you like) and is 10 miles away. The wind is blowing directly from there (0 degrees). You have unlimited sea room on either tack and the water depth is uniformly 40 feet. Steady wind with no wind shifts (or very few). You start your voyage on one tack or the other. Eventually you will have to tack. Whats your plan? One long tack until you can lay the destination on the other tack? How would you determine that? A series of "shorter" tacks? Would you use some sort of instrument (compass, GPS, special electronics) to determine when to do your tacks or would you do it by captain's judgement? What's your opinion?

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY

I find that the best time to tack is when my crew is at the end of the chapter in the book she is reading. To tack earlier causes disturbances in the atmosphere. Of course , if it appears that the boat is in harms' way I judiciously use the auto pilot. Not as clean a tack, but much quieter.

Jerry Axler



cutter36@erols.com

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Captain Kaplan,

If that be the case Sir, I will graciously capitulate....HOWEVER unlikely that is! ! !

Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
etc., etc., etc......

[h meyrick]

For the cruising sailor, like most of us are, sailing to an upwind destination requires a series of tacks. (Gee Warren I didn't know that!). For many of us, the decision on when to tack is largely determined by glancing over a shoulder and announcing to the crew (if you have any aboard) "Let's tack". Not much science or precision in that decision, just gut feeling and experience of knowing what your boat will do. Mind you, gut feeling and experience can be the best parameter sometimes. I've been reading a few articles on tacking angles and I've come to the conclusion that its part science and part art. Certainly the professional racers (Americas cup and the like) have sophisitcated wind instruments and computers chocked full of software that take in data on windspeed, ocean conditions, tide and current, compass courses etc and spit out EXACTLY when you should tack. But I'm a sailor who wants to sail, not spend my waking hours keying in data to a laptop. I've read about devices like Accu Tack, and wrist watches with rotating bezels that can help with tacking angles. And there's plenty more to be bought if you want. Now that the preamble is over I want to get some opinions on how you determine when to tack. Long tacks or short tacks. A set of parameters first. We are cruising, not racing, and time is not important in that we are not necessarily looking for the fastest transit. I realize that wind speed and sea conditions play a part in determinations but for our purposes the wind is blowing at 12 knots and the sea state is not a factor here. Your boat will tack thru 90 degrees. Your destination is due north bearing 0 degrees M (or 360 if you like) and is 10 miles away. The wind is blowing directly from there (0 degrees). You have unlimited sea room on either tack and the water depth is uniformly 40 feet. Steady wind with no wind shifts (or very few). You start your voyage on one tack or the other. Eventually you will have to tack. Whats your plan? One long tack until you can lay the destination on the other tack? How would you determine that? A series of "shorter" tacks? Would you use some sort of instrument (compass, GPS, special electronics) to determine when to do your tacks or would you do it by captain's judgement? What's your opinion?

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY

Warren, in your scenario, you neglected to mention whether it was nice and sunny and warm, with attractive crew on the foredeck, beer in the ice-box, and the sort of general conditions prevailing that suggest lines made fast are best left that way.



huw@post.com

[Patrick Turner]

I like this topic, although it's probably one better figured out on the water with your particular boat and crew. I haven't spent much time in checking this out, but I seem to recall that the fastest course to an upwind mark usually involves a series of long "scallop" like tacks up the course. Start the tack slowly so as not to lose to much speed. Pass through the wind quickly and fall off to a close reach to build up speed again and then harden up on the wind once you've picked up some. Then tack through and do it again. The trick I think is not to "come about" too qucikly on these boats and thereby lose speed.....fall off a bit to gain speed....etc.

Pat



patrick.t@attbi.com

[Bill]

I find that the best time to tack is when my crew is at the end of the chapter in the book she is reading. To tack earlier causes disturbances in the atmosphere. Of course , if it appears that the boat is in harms' way I judiciously use the auto pilot. Not as clean a tack, but much quieter.

Jerry Axler

Jerry

More often that not, I have taken the approach, that the best time to take is when the crew is sitting upon the head.....This procedure insures that the deck is clear allowing for a clean change over to the new tack...Of course there is the posibility that one will hear about it later.

Bill



cd25d@clnk.com