Bristol Finish

[john hoft-march]

I'm planning on refinishing the teak on my Typhoon - probably not until spring, as it is now packed into a warehouse with a bunch of other boats and inaccessible to me - and am still trying to decide on a finish. I like the look of varnish rather than oil or stain but am not nuts about the prospect of re-finishing each year or mid-season (actually, I'm not really sure of the frequency, I'm in northern Wisconsin).

I recall from an exchange of postings from a while ago that a few people were using Bristol Finish and I wonder how it has held up. I'm interested in the durability and (advertised) lower maintenance but, having just chiseled milk paint (absolutely impervious to strippers or heat) off of some window frames on my house, I'm a little reluctant to use something that would be virtually impossible to reverse. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has used the stuff.

Thanks much. John



john.hoft-march@appleton.org

[Michael Abramson]

In a recent issue, their long term comparison seemed to favor this
product, so I suggest you try to read the full review. I'm considering this job for my Intrepid 9M next season, and before undertaking such a big time commitment, I'd like the reassurance of
an independent evaluation. They comment on durability, appearance,
ease of use, and relative cost. If you don't know already, this
magazine is the "Consumer Reports" of the sailing industry. Check it
out. I have no connection to either PS or the teak finish mfrs.



mabramson@widomaker.com

[Bill Sonntag]

Two comments - I ran a simple search on this board for "bristol finish" - came up with 56 posts, didn't read them though you might want to check them out there may be some recent ones.

I now have six seasons of Chesapeake Bay region exposure on Honey Teak, a "two part" urethane acrylic enamel like Bristol Finish. I'm under the impression that Bristol Finish is something of a next generation product after Honey Teak. I recall reading some color comparisons suggesting its not quite as orange in tint as Honey Teak and it has the advantage of being a "one part" application requiring less mixing - Honey Teak uses several tint coats then clear coats. I have seven to eight total on my brightwork. One advantage of Honey Teak is that you can put on the coats wet-on-wet if you want to, just waiting for some initial set-up before recoating. I'm not sure whether this is recommended for Bristol Finish. I use foam brushes and ascribe to many of the basic preparation and application techniques modified for the coating described by Rebecca J. Wittman in "Brightwork The Art of Finishing Wood" International Marine Publishing, ISBN 0-87742-984-7.

After 6 years, I'm ready to do my first scratch and patch on the port cockpit coaming board this coming spring - the boat faces east in its slip, the port coaming takes the UV almost straight on every sunny day. Otherwise the handrails, companion way trim, coach work trim looks great.

I did "scratch and patch" the toe and rubrails last year (after five years) and may need to go back over some parts again next spring. I have learned the hard way that any finish including these very hard finishes will fall apart if water gets in underneath and lifts it. On my toerails this is just what has occurred. I now plan to lay a very light silicon caulk bead down the inboard joint at the juncture of the deck and the rail to solve a now re-occurring problem.

What is amazing about these finishes is their UV durability. This may also be why water intrusion becomes so obvious. I have used traditional varnishes on a variety of boats and woods (mahogany, teak, oak, pine)for thirty years. These new finishes can be difficult to work with at times. I find they don't level as well watch for sags on verticle surfaces. For Honey Teak, if you botch the bench chemistry mixture routine you can end up with "brush marks" that must be dealt with prior to the next coat. Honey Teak sands well and works up as well as can be expected if you "scatch and patch" like I have rather than strip the surface and start over when issues arise.

They're toxic as all get out (be sure to ask the manufacturer for the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). But they give flat out great durability if applied with care.

For those old salts abhoring crass commercial exploitation let me reassure you - I am simply a customer and user of the product mentioned above. I have received no promotional fee nor do I have a commercial, financial or proprietary interest in the product, the company that manufactures and markets it nor any subsidiaries and/or dealers.

Cape Dory Boats deserve fine brightwork these finishes do not give the wood a weird color, muddy or hide the grain.

Bill Sonntag
Surprise - CD31 Hull No.30



wsonntags@earthlink.net

[John R.]

I'm planning on refinishing the teak on my Typhoon - probably not until spring, as it is now packed into a warehouse with a bunch of other boats and inaccessible to me - and am still trying to decide on a finish. I like the look of varnish rather than oil or stain but am not nuts about the prospect of re-finishing each year or mid-season (actually, I'm not really sure of the frequency, I'm in northern Wisconsin).

I recall from an exchange of postings from a while ago that a few people were using Bristol Finish and I wonder how it has held up. I'm interested in the durability and (advertised) lower maintenance but, having just chiseled milk paint (absolutely impervious to strippers or heat) off of some window frames on my house, I'm a little reluctant to use something that would be virtually impossible to reverse. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has used the stuff.

Thanks much. John

Check the archive messages on this subject. Several of us have used these products and posted our observations pro and con.

I am a proponent of Bristol finish or Honey Teak. I prefer the colorless look of Bristol Finish. Choice comes down to a matter of cost and color. Honey Teak being costlier and darker and different application steps but both products are essentially the same acrylic urethane base product. After past conversations with Tom Fabula owner of Signature Finishes (Honey Teak) I learned that Bristol folks and Signature folks had a working relationship together regarding the development and marketing of Honey Teak then things seperated and the result was the birth of Bristol Finish to compete with Honey Teak. You really can't go wrong with either product. I'll e-mail you a pic of some smaller pieces I have showing Bristol on white oak and on teak. You can judge for yourself. Check the archives for more information.

[Ben Thomas]

John, I am into the tail end of the second season of bristol finish on all of the exterior teak on my cd30. the big plus of this product is no sanding between coats if done within their time parameters, over so many hours they reccomend sanding. Its possible to get 5-6 coats on in one warm day.
The u.v. protection was a big consideration as well. also the translucent quality that lets the teak speak for itself. I have never really liked the orange cast to some products. here it is strictly personal taste.

My understanding of the prep for bristol and honey teak is the same, and here lies the bulk of all the work related. prep prep prep. the wood must be very clean and dry. remember that acetone leaves a very fine film residue on the surfaces you clean with it. use a tack cloth, less than a dollar a piece at home depot.
Heres the downside for me on Bristol Finish. It does not hold up well on corners. They must be well rounded for the finish to adhere with any longevity. I just finished sanding those original coats off my combing boards rounded the edges even more and reapplied 6 coats.
Over all it took three quarts of the bristol to do all the teak on board. including 4 grabrails that I added on to the coach roof and the redo of the combing boards. with 7 coats total over most surfaces.

a friend of mine just finished his toe rails and hatch covers on a 38'choey lee with the honey teak. Even with my aversion to orange colored teak, it looks much much nicer than my bristol finish with its warm hue it gives just a different look to the depth of the finish. If I were to do it all over again I would go with the honey teak. with a lighter application of the first coats of stain. By the way when I sanded off those first several coats of bristol finish on the combings. a small orbital sander and two hours later they were down to bare wood.
much faster than removing old cetol coats the first time around.
Good luck Ben



bt@benthomaslandscapers.com

[John]

A practical sailor may not necessarily be an honest sailor. I remember several years back when they reviewed a boat (Hunter 23.5) without ever sailing it. This past week I was at a trade show in Chicago and started up a conversation with a 3m rep about boat waxes and some how we got on to "Practically a Sailor" and found that on two occassions they had had problems with shabby studies done by PS, although, they had ended up quite well and just laughed. I would be real careful about taking anything too seriously from them.

In a recent issue, their long term comparison seemed to favor this
product, so I suggest you try to read the full review. I'm considering this job for my Intrepid 9M next season, and before undertaking such a big time commitment, I'd like the reassurance of
an independent evaluation. They comment on durability, appearance,
ease of use, and relative cost. If you don't know already, this
magazine is the "Consumer Reports" of the sailing industry. Check it
out. I have no connection to either PS or the teak finish mfrs.

branchedoakmarina@alltel.net

[John R.]

I tend to agree with your observations. Having been a subscriber for the last three years I can say my renewal will not be there. I've noted some poor reviews also. I recall they did a review last year sometime on Bristol Finish, Honey Teak, et al, and they didn't even know that Bristol and Honey Teak are virtually the same product. That is poor research. I knew more about the product then they reported after a couple phone calls and some limited product usage at the time.

I'm tired of paying premium subscription rates for a publication that reports on items I can find in Consumer Reports such as suntan lotion, sunglasses, beverage coolers, and other basic consumer items. Who needs half an issue devoted to suntan lotion? That's absurd.

When's the last time anyone saw an article on an engine model? new sail technology? circuit breaker design? heat shrink grades and qualities? lighting fixtures? computer software? REAL anchor tests? shackle quality? diesel fuel treatment products? I'm surprised they haven't run tests yet on pot holders from West marine!

I think "Practically Sailor" might be an appropriate title. Let's face it they do occassionaly have an article of value but the rarity sure isn't worth the $$$. Just read the review of the CD30, anyone that owns one or knows about the boat surely knows how absurd some of the PS comments are.

What about Nick Nicholsons escapades and reports of gear failures. Seems to me many times that sounded more like a user problem then equipment problems. Certainly not fair to manufacturers who get a bad rap for poor installation and application practices.

My wooden nickels worth................

A practical sailor may not necessarily be an honest sailor. I remember several years back when they reviewed a boat (Hunter 23.5) without ever sailing it. This past week I was at a trade show in Chicago and started up a conversation with a 3m rep about boat waxes and some how we got on to "Practically a Sailor" and found that on two occassions they had had problems with shabby studies done by PS, although, they had ended up quite well and just laughed. I would be real careful about taking anything too seriously from them.

In a recent issue, their long term comparison seemed to favor this
product, so I suggest you try to read the full review. I'm considering this job for my Intrepid 9M next season, and before undertaking such a big time commitment, I'd like the reassurance of
an independent evaluation. They comment on durability, appearance,
ease of use, and relative cost. If you don't know already, this
magazine is the "Consumer Reports" of the sailing industry. Check it
out. I have no connection to either PS or the teak finish mfrs.

[Bill Lawson]

I'm planning on refinishing the teak on my Typhoon - probably not until spring, as it is now packed into a warehouse with a bunch of other boats and inaccessible to me - and am still trying to decide on a finish. I like the look of varnish rather than oil or stain but am not nuts about the prospect of re-finishing each year or mid-season (actually, I'm not really sure of the frequency, I'm in northern Wisconsin).

I recall from an exchange of postings from a while ago that a few people were using Bristol Finish and I wonder how it has held up. I'm interested in the durability and (advertised) lower maintenance but, having just chiseled milk paint (absolutely impervious to strippers or heat) off of some window frames on my house, I'm a little reluctant to use something that would be virtually impossible to reverse. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has used the stuff.

Thanks much. John

Where can you purchase Honey Teak? Thanks...Bill CRACKER JACK



walawson@qwest.net

[Clay Stalker]

I tend to agree with your observations. Having been a subscriber for the last three years I can say my renewal will not be there. I've noted some poor reviews also. I recall they did a review last year sometime on Bristol Finish, Honey Teak, et al, and they didn't even know that Bristol and Honey Teak are virtually the same product. That is poor research. I knew more about the product then they reported after a couple phone calls and some limited product usage at the time.

I'm tired of paying premium subscription rates for a publication that reports on items I can find in Consumer Reports such as suntan lotion, sunglasses, beverage coolers, and other basic consumer items. Who needs half an issue devoted to suntan lotion? That's absurd.

When's the last time anyone saw an article on an engine model? new sail technology? circuit breaker design? heat shrink grades and qualities? lighting fixtures? computer software? REAL anchor tests? shackle quality? diesel fuel treatment products? I'm surprised they haven't run tests yet on pot holders from West marine!

I think "Practically Sailor" might be an appropriate title. Let's face it they do occassionaly have an article of value but the rarity sure isn't worth the $$$. Just read the review of the CD30, anyone that owns one or knows about the boat surely knows how absurd some of the PS comments are.

What about Nick Nicholsons escapades and reports of gear failures. Seems to me many times that sounded more like a user problem then equipment problems. Certainly not fair to manufacturers who get a bad rap for poor installation and application practices.

My wooden nickels worth................

A practical sailor may not necessarily be an honest sailor. I remember several years back when they reviewed a boat (Hunter 23.5) without ever sailing it. This past week I was at a trade show in Chicago and started up a conversation with a 3m rep about boat waxes and some how we got on to "Practically a Sailor" and found that on two occassions they had had problems with shabby studies done by PS, although, they had ended up quite well and just laughed. I would be real careful about taking anything too seriously from them.

In a recent issue, their long term comparison seemed to favor this
product, so I suggest you try to read the full review. I'm considering this job for my Intrepid 9M next season, and before undertaking such a big time commitment, I'd like the reassurance of
an independent evaluation. They comment on durability, appearance,
ease of use, and relative cost. If you don't know already, this
magazine is the "Consumer Reports" of the sailing industry. Check it
out. I have no connection to either PS or the teak finish mfrs.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the above observations...for the price, a mag like "Good Old Boats" will be a better read for Cape Dory fans...PS has gotten away from what it used to be. Just my 2 cents....

Clay Stalker



cstalker@cheshire.net