I have a friend who claims that the Shell Rotella T SAE 15W-40 with the advantage of "advanced soot control" is the best oil to use. Any opinions out there. Does it really matter ? Does changing "type" of oil that has been used for years affect anything?
Michael Heintz
s/v Macht Nichts CD 30 MK II 004
Mzenith@aol.com
Engine oil type...does it matter????
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Larry DeMers
Re: Engine oil type...does it matter????
Hi Mike,
Frequency of changes counts 5x more than the type of oil. I use straight 30W Mystik oil for diesel engines. They have a CD rating on the label..look for that. This label will say something like CD-1, plus a few other letters to denote the type of use the oil was intended to be used in. But above all is frequency of changes. If you take small trips all summer long, then frequent oil/filter changes are best. In those conditions I would not go longer than 100 hrs. btwn. changes, and preferably 75 hrs. If you took a long trip this year, with lots of engine time over a short physical time, then a change before you left and another at the end of the year would be fine.
But the CD rating on oil *does* make a difference, and is what I would recommend..the weight of oil to use is up to you. To me, a 10W40 is too thin for the protection you want. That is intended to make for easier cranking in cold..really cold like we get up here in NW Wisc. type weather. Anyplace south of here should be using a straight 30W or 40W oil per the engine manuf. instructions. (MD7B manual says to use straight 30W diesel rated oil).
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Frequency of changes counts 5x more than the type of oil. I use straight 30W Mystik oil for diesel engines. They have a CD rating on the label..look for that. This label will say something like CD-1, plus a few other letters to denote the type of use the oil was intended to be used in. But above all is frequency of changes. If you take small trips all summer long, then frequent oil/filter changes are best. In those conditions I would not go longer than 100 hrs. btwn. changes, and preferably 75 hrs. If you took a long trip this year, with lots of engine time over a short physical time, then a change before you left and another at the end of the year would be fine.
But the CD rating on oil *does* make a difference, and is what I would recommend..the weight of oil to use is up to you. To me, a 10W40 is too thin for the protection you want. That is intended to make for easier cranking in cold..really cold like we get up here in NW Wisc. type weather. Anyplace south of here should be using a straight 30W or 40W oil per the engine manuf. instructions. (MD7B manual says to use straight 30W diesel rated oil).
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Michael Heintz wrote: I have a friend who claims that the Shell Rotella T SAE 15W-40 with the advantage of "advanced soot control" is the best oil to use. Any opinions out there. Does it really matter ? Does changing "type" of oil that has been used for years affect anything?
Michael Heintz
s/v Macht Nichts CD 30 MK II 004
demers@sgi.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Engine oil type...does it matter????
Captain Heintz,
I use straight 30 weight in the Universal 18 in Hanalei. I think the owners manual specifies it. Don't ever use synthetic oil, she will leak like a sive! And additives aren't recommended either. Just good old oil, black gold, mountain dew, the stuff that bubbles from the ground!
Hey Captain, check back on your post of the 14th. "Someone" answered you about....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C "#1"
I use straight 30 weight in the Universal 18 in Hanalei. I think the owners manual specifies it. Don't ever use synthetic oil, she will leak like a sive! And additives aren't recommended either. Just good old oil, black gold, mountain dew, the stuff that bubbles from the ground!
Hey Captain, check back on your post of the 14th. "Someone" answered you about....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C "#1"
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD oil ratings....
Captain DeMers,
Last year when I went to purchase oil, I noticed that all the ratings had changed. Couldn't fine "CD" for anything on any can! What's up with that? Your HUMBLE servant.......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C "#1"
Last year when I went to purchase oil, I noticed that all the ratings had changed. Couldn't fine "CD" for anything on any can! What's up with that? Your HUMBLE servant.......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C "#1"
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Jack Bego
Re: Engine oil type...does it matter????
Shell Rotella is a fine motor oil but as previously mentioned, a straight 30W would be preferred. Rotella T is rated for diesel use.
Jack Bego
CD 28
s/v Jade Lady
jebiker@mindspring.com
Jack Bego
CD 28
s/v Jade Lady
Michael Heintz wrote: I have a friend who claims that the Shell Rotella T SAE 15W-40 with the advantage of "advanced soot control" is the best oil to use. Any opinions out there. Does it really matter ? Does changing "type" of oil that has been used for years affect anything?
Michael Heintz
s/v Macht Nichts CD 30 MK II 004
jebiker@mindspring.com
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Boyd
Re: Engine oil type...does it matter????
Hi Michael:
I believe you have the same Westerbeke engine I do. I spoke with the Westerbeke distributor here about oil several times since I was having trouble finding the straight weight stuff. They recommend only straight weight oils. It may be hard to find the it since almost everyone stocks the 15-40 stuff. I use straight weight 30 (florida) and change the oil at 50 hours when possible (less if the trips have been short. The frequency of changes seems to be the most important factor since the soot content builds over usage. When the soot load in the oil exceeds a certain amount it builds in the ring grooves and messes up the compression. I read somewhere that diesel oil fails to do its job when the soot content becomes excessive. Thats different from the oil in a gas engine which fails due to temperature breakdown and buildup of acids from combustion. Hence the oil for a diesel is much different from the oil used in a gas engine.
My engine leaks less at the front and rear crank seals if the oil is new. Its also less messy to work with low hour oil. That 100 hour stuff will stain anything it touches. Any good oil with a diesel rating is probably ok.
Its a dirty job but somebody has to do it... Boyd
Tern30@aol.com
I believe you have the same Westerbeke engine I do. I spoke with the Westerbeke distributor here about oil several times since I was having trouble finding the straight weight stuff. They recommend only straight weight oils. It may be hard to find the it since almost everyone stocks the 15-40 stuff. I use straight weight 30 (florida) and change the oil at 50 hours when possible (less if the trips have been short. The frequency of changes seems to be the most important factor since the soot content builds over usage. When the soot load in the oil exceeds a certain amount it builds in the ring grooves and messes up the compression. I read somewhere that diesel oil fails to do its job when the soot content becomes excessive. Thats different from the oil in a gas engine which fails due to temperature breakdown and buildup of acids from combustion. Hence the oil for a diesel is much different from the oil used in a gas engine.
My engine leaks less at the front and rear crank seals if the oil is new. Its also less messy to work with low hour oil. That 100 hour stuff will stain anything it touches. Any good oil with a diesel rating is probably ok.
Its a dirty job but somebody has to do it... Boyd
Michael Heintz wrote: I have a friend who claims that the Shell Rotella T SAE 15W-40 with the advantage of "advanced soot control" is the best oil to use. Any opinions out there. Does it really matter ? Does changing "type" of oil that has been used for years affect anything?
Michael Heintz
s/v Macht Nichts CD 30 MK II 004
Tern30@aol.com
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sloopjohnl
Re: CD oil ratings....
i believe the newer ratings are CH and CG for a 15-40 oil, at least that is what castrols dieselall is labelled as.
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Captain DeMers,
Last year when I went to purchase oil, I noticed that all the ratings had changed. Couldn't fine "CD" for anything on any can! What's up with that? Your HUMBLE servant.......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C "#1"
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Bob Pence
Re: Engine oil type...does it matter????
In 1996, Hansen Marine in Mass. rebuilt a Perkins 4-108 for me. When they shipped it back it was filled with Chevron Delo 400, 30W. This is the only one they use but said Rotella T or Texaco Ursa was O.K.Michael Heintz wrote: I have a friend who claims that the Shell Rotella T SAE 15W-40 with the advantage of "advanced soot control" is the best oil to use. Any opinions out there. Does it really matter ? Does changing "type" of oil that has been used for years affect anything?
Michael Heintz
s/v Macht Nichts CD 30 MK II 004
They emphasized staying with one brand at changes. Sometimes switching from one brand to another can cause 'gumming'. They also recommend single viscosity. I took them at their word and that's all I used for years on the three boats I owned.
sixpence@dmv.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: CD oil ratings....
Captain Stump,
I caught that change too, and it kinda confused me so I asked the pimple faced highschool kid at the counter what was up with the ratings change. It was a Standards change that seems to make their products agree with the same standards in Europe, so the products can be marketed internationally.
I use this Mystik JT-8 Super Heavy Duty SAE 30 stuff..have for 12 years actually. It is tractor oil..heh, natch, being up here in corn-y country. But the ratings my bottle has on it are AOI Service CE, CF-2, CF/SJ. I do recognize the CE rating as the Volvo manual (I believe)says to use a CE or better grade (CF would be better assumably). It sure would be nice to actually *know* what we are putting in our engines to keep them from becoming a molten mass of quivering iron. Perhaps a visit to Rotella's web site is in order...
Sorry..dat's all I know 'bout dat...
Cheers,
larry
demers@sgi.com
I caught that change too, and it kinda confused me so I asked the pimple faced highschool kid at the counter what was up with the ratings change. It was a Standards change that seems to make their products agree with the same standards in Europe, so the products can be marketed internationally.
I use this Mystik JT-8 Super Heavy Duty SAE 30 stuff..have for 12 years actually. It is tractor oil..heh, natch, being up here in corn-y country. But the ratings my bottle has on it are AOI Service CE, CF-2, CF/SJ. I do recognize the CE rating as the Volvo manual (I believe)says to use a CE or better grade (CF would be better assumably). It sure would be nice to actually *know* what we are putting in our engines to keep them from becoming a molten mass of quivering iron. Perhaps a visit to Rotella's web site is in order...
Sorry..dat's all I know 'bout dat...
Cheers,
larry
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Captain DeMers,
Last year when I went to purchase oil, I noticed that all the ratings had changed. Couldn't fine "CD" for anything on any can! What's up with that? Your HUMBLE servant.......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C "#1"
demers@sgi.com
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John R.
Re: Engine oil type...does it matter????
The current rating spec for a low speed 4 cycle diesel is "CF" and I believe that rating was introduced in '94 or '95. That is the minimum spec you would need to use in a low speed diesel such as in a typical sailboat. Many oils meet that spec criteria just look on the container. Rotella T has been the old standard for years but the new formulations are making headway into it's market such as partial synthetics and pure synthetics.Michael Heintz wrote: I have a friend who claims that the Shell Rotella T SAE 15W-40 with the advantage of "advanced soot control" is the best oil to use. Any opinions out there. Does it really matter ? Does changing "type" of oil that has been used for years affect anything?
Michael Heintz
s/v Macht Nichts CD 30 MK II 004
Like others have noted diesels need frequent oil changes. How frequent depends on your use of the engine. If an engine has a lot of hours on it and you know what oil has been used in it's life you would be best to stick with that oil. If it has low hours you can switch to anything.
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John R.
Re: CD oil ratings....
Larry,
The "CE" rating is an old obsolete specification. Does that make a difference in older engines, probably not at all. I think CE was a spec rating used back in the mid 1980's. I sure would not use it in any engine say manufactured from the late '80's on. Look for any of the "CF" spec to make sure you are running the current spec and you could probably use the high speed diesel ratings of say CF-2 and others.
The "CE" rating is an old obsolete specification. Does that make a difference in older engines, probably not at all. I think CE was a spec rating used back in the mid 1980's. I sure would not use it in any engine say manufactured from the late '80's on. Look for any of the "CF" spec to make sure you are running the current spec and you could probably use the high speed diesel ratings of say CF-2 and others.
Larry DeMers wrote: Captain Stump,
I caught that change too, and it kinda confused me so I asked the pimple faced highschool kid at the counter what was up with the ratings change. It was a Standards change that seems to make their products agree with the same standards in Europe, so the products can be marketed internationally.
I use this Mystik JT-8 Super Heavy Duty SAE 30 stuff..have for 12 years actually. It is tractor oil..heh, natch, being up here in corn-y country. But the ratings my bottle has on it are AOI Service CE, CF-2, CF/SJ. I do recognize the CE rating as the Volvo manual (I believe)says to use a CE or better grade (CF would be better assumably). It sure would be nice to actually *know* what we are putting in our engines to keep them from becoming a molten mass of quivering iron. Perhaps a visit to Rotella's web site is in order...
Sorry..dat's all I know 'bout dat...
Cheers,
larry
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Captain DeMers,
Last year when I went to purchase oil, I noticed that all the ratings had changed. Couldn't fine "CD" for anything on any can! What's up with that? Your HUMBLE servant.......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C "#1"
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Jerry
Re: Engine oil type...does it matter????
Engine oil specifications start with "S" for spark combustion engines and "C" for compression engines (Diesel). Some oils are rated for both and give the ratings that they meet for each type of engine. The latest "C" rating that I am aware of is CG-4 which is an API specification. The weight that you should use is specified in the engine manufactures tech data and is based on the air temperature range that you are operating the boat. If you do not have that specification get it from the engine manufacturer.They give temperature ranges for both single weight and multiple weight oilsMichael Heintz wrote: I have a friend who claims that the Shell Rotella T SAE 15W-40 with the advantage of "advanced soot control" is the best oil to use. Any opinions out there. Does it really matter ? Does changing "type" of oil that has been used for years affect anything?
Michael Heintz
s/v Macht Nichts CD 30 MK II 004
jlecocq@milehigh.net
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John R.
Re: Engine oil type...does it matter????
Jerry,
The "CG" is a API oil spec rating for high speed diesel engines and that oil spec came out sometime in the mid '90's. "CH" is the more current spec for high speed diesels. Neither of these ratings is necessary for the typical diesel in a CD sailboat. We only need to meet the "CF" spec. No sense in spending more dollars on higher performance oil when it isn't called for in these engines.
The "CG" is a API oil spec rating for high speed diesel engines and that oil spec came out sometime in the mid '90's. "CH" is the more current spec for high speed diesels. Neither of these ratings is necessary for the typical diesel in a CD sailboat. We only need to meet the "CF" spec. No sense in spending more dollars on higher performance oil when it isn't called for in these engines.
Jerry wrote:Engine oil specifications start with "S" for spark combustion engines and "C" for compression engines (Diesel). Some oils are rated for both and give the ratings that they meet for each type of engine. The latest "C" rating that I am aware of is CG-4 which is an API specification. The weight that you should use is specified in the engine manufactures tech data and is based on the air temperature range that you are operating the boat. If you do not have that specification get it from the engine manufacturer.They give temperature ranges for both single weight and multiple weight oilsMichael Heintz wrote: I have a friend who claims that the Shell Rotella T SAE 15W-40 with the advantage of "advanced soot control" is the best oil to use. Any opinions out there. Does it really matter ? Does changing "type" of oil that has been used for years affect anything?
Michael Heintz
s/v Macht Nichts CD 30 MK II 004
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Scott Ritchey
Re: Engine oil type...does it matter????
Here's a link to the API site with a chart that explains all the alphabet soup. I too noticed the sudden decrease in "Cx" rated API oil at the auto store. I suspect the oil makers stopped certifying many of their products for Diesel use because of the expense of running the test and the small consumer Diesel market. But, I still find and use "C" labeled oil in my diesel engines. In addition to Rotella, most of the synthetic and blended oils carry "C" API ratings.
Jerry wrote: I have a friend who claims that the Shell Rotella T SAE 15W-40 with the advantage of "advanced soot control" is the best oil to use. Any opinions out there. Does it really matter ? Does changing "type" of oil that has been used for years affect anything?
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Scott Ritchey