Is this cape dory puffing or what?

[Craig]

In my search for a smaller boat, I have narrowed down to a 25 or 27 cape dory from our 34 hunter. Two days ago I bump into the owner of a 79 cape dory on our dock and start to quiz her alittle bit on her boat and its sailing abilities. She says "the rail is in the water more than not and sometimes the cockpit cushions are afloat." Now i know these boats ride low to the water but is is for real? I dont really care to have a cockpit full of water everytime we go out and I know my wife doesnt. She was also pretty as a matter of fact about its speed. I was under the impression these boats arent the fastest. She has owned her 25 for 20 years and is mighty proud for sure. Someone tell me, on a 10-12 knot day where will I ride. She did invite me out for a future ride that I will take her up on. thanks for your help. craig



shavdog@aol.com

[Clay Stalker]

In my search for a smaller boat, I have narrowed down to a 25 or 27 cape dory from our 34 hunter. Two days ago I bump into the owner of a 79 cape dory on our dock and start to quiz her alittle bit on her boat and its sailing abilities. She says "the rail is in the water more than not and sometimes the cockpit cushions are afloat." Now i know these boats ride low to the water but is is for real? I dont really care to have a cockpit full of water everytime we go out and I know my wife doesnt. She was also pretty as a matter of fact about its speed. I was under the impression these boats arent the fastest. She has owned her 25 for 20 years and is mighty proud for sure. Someone tell me, on a 10-12 knot day where will I ride. She did invite me out for a future ride that I will take her up on. thanks for your help. craig

Craig-
Cannot speak for the CD25 except to say that the 25 and 27 are very different boats...different designers, different abilities, etc. If the 27 rail is in the water, you are very over-canvassed and the boat is not sailing efficiently at all. The boat sails best at a heel angle of between 15-20 degrees, and the rail is not in the water at this point. My 27 likes to have a reef put in the main around 16 knots and will sail efficiently with the full 135 genny and minimal weather helm up to 20 knots. Above 20 I begin to reef in the genny. Have never sailed her above 25, but believe she would handle up to 30 without too much fanfare. Have never had water in the cockpit, so don't know what that is about. You can't really go wrong with either boat, but they are quite different. Good luck!

Clay Stalker
s/v SALSA CD27 #247
Apponaug Harbor, Rhode Island




cstalker@cheshire.net

[Bruce Bett]

Craig:

I can speak for the Cape Dory 25 and I can start by saying that I have NEVER had ANY water in my cockpit except for spray or a freak splash. I don't mind a little rail in the water but generally when I'm that far over it's time to reef. I don't like to criticize another skipper but your friend sounds like one macho lady to me. The cd 25 has a capsize screening ratio of 1.83. This puts it well in the off shore capable class. 10 to 12 knot winds will not put the rail of a cd 25 down! Like all well ballasted narrow beam boats is initially tender but ultimately stiff. As for speed she's not going to catch many J-Boats but I've been known to blow by a Hunter or two. I guess my final word has to be if you sail with this lady make sure you ware a life jacket.

Bruce Bett
Sostenuto
CD 25 #496

In my search for a smaller boat, I have narrowed down to a 25 or 27 cape dory from our 34 hunter. Two days ago I bump into the owner of a 79 cape dory on our dock and start to quiz her alittle bit on her boat and its sailing abilities. She says "the rail is in the water more than not and sometimes the cockpit cushions are afloat." Now i know these boats ride low to the water but is is for real? I dont really care to have a cockpit full of water everytime we go out and I know my wife doesnt. She was also pretty as a matter of fact about its speed. I was under the impression these boats arent the fastest. She has owned her 25 for 20 years and is mighty proud for sure. Someone tell me, on a 10-12 knot day where will I ride. She did invite me out for a future ride that I will take her up on. thanks for your help. craig

bettb@macomb.cc.mi.us

[Stan W.]

As a rule, Cape Dorys can take more than can their skippers. You'll wet your pants before you'll wet your cockpit. Did your source specify the fluid in which her cockpit cushions were floating?



smwheatley@capecod.net

[Will]

Crossed the Chesapeake on Wed. in my CD25. Wind was blowing steady at 15 knots gusting to 25 and I ran on a broad reach for a little more than 2 hours. She sailed comfortably and pretty fast too and not a drop of water or even a lot of heel in the gusts. Just for fun before going home I turned into the wind and went on a close reach. I did have the rail in the water a lot but I was flying my full genoa and full main. Still stayed dry in the cockpit though, and had a ton of fun.

Good Luck
William Wheatley
s/v Suzi Q
CD25

In my search for a smaller boat, I have narrowed down to a 25 or 27 cape dory from our 34 hunter. Two days ago I bump into the owner of a 79 cape dory on our dock and start to quiz her alittle bit on her boat and its sailing abilities. She says "the rail is in the water more than not and sometimes the cockpit cushions are afloat." Now i know these boats ride low to the water but is is for real? I dont really care to have a cockpit full of water everytime we go out and I know my wife doesnt. She was also pretty as a matter of fact about its speed. I was under the impression these boats arent the fastest. She has owned her 25 for 20 years and is mighty proud for sure. Someone tell me, on a 10-12 knot day where will I ride. She did invite me out for a future ride that I will take her up on. thanks for your help. craig

willwheatley@starpower.net

[Don Carr]

All the previous comments are right on the money. The 25 finds her groove at about 15-20 degrees upwind. The only time the rail sees the water is if I am running the 150 genny in 18 knot+ apparent. If I feather the main and let her sail the lifts the rail stays up, boat speed is maintained. These boats have an initial tenderness but once your have trimmed properly they are tanks.
Never had water in the cockpit save for spray or the occasional out of synch wave.
THESE ARE NOT LIGHT WIND BOATS. It is my experience that you need a minimum of 10-12 knots to properly sail these creatures. If you sail in an area that has wind speed averages of less than this you might really enjoy another boat. In light winds they are STSS (slower than snail s***t). Just ask Capt JT.

P.S. You can add up to another .75 knot or so by lifting out the outboard. Lot's of drag there.



carrds@us.ibm.com

[Larry DeMers]

I have to repectfully disagree with the opinion expressed here. None of the CD'd are 'tanks' in any sense, nor are they as slow as this person represents. Cape Dory's perform quite well in light airs. In our CD30, we took 5th place of 10 entries, in a race that saw winds not exceeding 5 kts. It took 7 hours to complete the darn course, and was a real battle to maintain interest etc. but we beat many boats that were far larger than us, and had fin keels and minimum wetted surface. But there is a trick or two in getting low wind performance out of these boats.

You need a genoa first of all. We use a 140% Genny, and I would say it was about perfect for low and mid level wind use. A yankee jib in place of the genoa would not allow you to have much low wind performance, and this may be the reason for this commenter's poor low wind performance, although he does not mention his sail inventory.

I think that most CD owners that have a larger head sail have found that the CD's will move in 3-5 kts of wind even, although it may take a bit of time to get the speed up. My experience is that the CD's are faster than any other full keeler on the water, and that includes the Pacific Seacraft line, although they come darn close in performance due to their similar beam to length ratios, and fine entry...'course, I AM predjudiced a bit.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~

All the previous comments are right on the money. The 25 finds her groove at about 15-20 degrees upwind. The only time the rail sees the water is if I am running the 150 genny in 18 knot+ apparent. If I feather the main and let her sail the lifts the rail stays up, boat speed is maintained. These boats have an initial tenderness but once your have trimmed properly they are tanks.
Never had water in the cockpit save for spray or the occasional out of synch wave.
THESE ARE NOT LIGHT WIND BOATS. It is my experience that you need a minimum of 10-12 knots to properly sail these creatures. If you sail in an area that has wind speed averages of less than this you might really enjoy another boat. In light winds they are STSS (slower than snail s***t). Just ask Capt JT.

P.S. You can add up to another .75 knot or so by lifting out the outboard. Lot's of drag there.

demers@sgi.com

[Eric]

While they are not fast boats. Allia (my CD 25) took 3rd overall in a handicapped crusing boat race earlier this summer. There were 79 boats in the fleet, ranging from Stonehorse Jrs. to Bermuda 40s and racing machines. Wind never topped 10 knots. Allia had a 45 min lead at the first windward mark due to great speed upwind and a nice jenny.

I have to repectfully disagree with the opinion expressed here. None of the CD'd are 'tanks' in any sense, nor are they as slow as this person represents. Cape Dory's perform quite well in light airs. In our CD30, we took 5th place of 10 entries, in a race that saw winds not exceeding 5 kts. It took 7 hours to complete the darn course, and was a real battle to maintain interest etc. but we beat many boats that were far larger than us, and had fin keels and minimum wetted surface. But there is a trick or two in getting low wind performance out of these boats.

You need a genoa first of all. We use a 140% Genny, and I would say it was about perfect for low and mid level wind use. A yankee jib in place of the genoa would not allow you to have much low wind performance, and this may be the reason for this commenter's poor low wind performance, although he does not mention his sail inventory.

I think that most CD owners that have a larger head sail have found that the CD's will move in 3-5 kts of wind even, although it may take a bit of time to get the speed up. My experience is that the CD's are faster than any other full keeler on the water, and that includes the Pacific Seacraft line, although they come darn close in performance due to their similar beam to length ratios, and fine entry...'course, I AM predjudiced a bit.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~

All the previous comments are right on the money. The 25 finds her groove at about 15-20 degrees upwind. The only time the rail sees the water is if I am running the 150 genny in 18 knot+ apparent. If I feather the main and let her sail the lifts the rail stays up, boat speed is maintained. These boats have an initial tenderness but once your have trimmed properly they are tanks.
Never had water in the cockpit save for spray or the occasional out of synch wave.
THESE ARE NOT LIGHT WIND BOATS. It is my experience that you need a minimum of 10-12 knots to properly sail these creatures. If you sail in an area that has wind speed averages of less than this you might really enjoy another boat. In light winds they are STSS (slower than snail s***t). Just ask Capt JT.

P.S. You can add up to another .75 knot or so by lifting out the outboard. Lot's of drag there.

[Don Carr]

Larry; When I say 'tank' I refer to sea keeping abilities. Second the CD25 due to short wl looses much speed in any real chop. That combined with low wind..you end up with a windex that looks like the wheel of fortune(a little tough to trim to). Also the PHRF rating of 290 base and 270 spinnaker should tell you something. I love the boat and it serves the purpose for which it is used. One must be careful not to extrapolate generic performance over the whole line based on a given model (there have been some real J-boat dogs too). In fact the boat is a reasonable performer in about 12 knots of wind as I had her going
4.8 knots upwind at 42degrees apparent. With 12 knots true.



carrds@us.ibm.com

[craig]

Larry; When I say 'tank' I refer to sea keeping abilities. Second the CD25 due to short wl looses much speed in any real chop. That combined with low wind..you end up with a windex that looks like the wheel of fortune(a little tough to trim to). Also the PHRF rating of 290 base and 270 spinnaker should tell you something. I love the boat and it serves the purpose for which it is used. One must be careful not to extrapolate generic performance over the whole line based on a given model (there have been some real J-boat dogs too). In fact the boat is a reasonable performer in about 12 knots of wind as I had her going

Nice dialogue on the cd 25. now, how does this compare to characteristics of the cd 27? they are very different boats so 27 owners give me your comparison, please. thanks in advance. craig

4.8 knots upwind at 42degrees apparent. With 12 knots true.

shavdog@aol.com

[Capt JT]

Based on last months race to Block where the winds (at least for some of us late starters who were not even registered) cracked upwards to 20 knots and seas ( by observations reported the next day) were all of 4-6 feet, CD25 Happy Daze stood high and dry. Since I was VERY busy single handing (crew was well.... clutching to the cabin bulkhead looking a fine shade of green) I could not leave the tiller and reef the main. The only time the rail got wet was during a full sail tack. This got a LITTLE more than the rail wet but no water in the cockpit. At that point I got a chance to reef the genny and she became a bit more upright and stable. I am a 1st season sailor and this trip gave me a great deal of confidence in both the CD25 and myself. Nuff said !

Captain JT



laton@ynhh.com

[Neil Gordon]

>>Since I was VERY busy single handing ... I could not leave the tiller and reef the main<<

Singlehandling or not, you should be able to reef. One solution is to backwind the jib and heave to, lashing the tiller to leeward. That will put the main in the lee of the jib and the boat will be relatively settled. You can then take your time going up to the mast and reefing the main.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



cdory28@aol.com

[Catherine Monaghan]

Larry,

I agree on all counts. Our boat's a cutter and we use a high cut yankee and staysail combo. When the wind is blowing below 7 knots, it's very hard to get her going, but she does go -- very slowly. On those days we wish we had a big genny. But we do have a cruising spinnaker which can be used on a close reach (not close hauled though). And it is a great help. We can get a boost of 2 knots in light winds with that sail.

By the way, on Monday (Labor Day) we had a great sail on Raritan Bay. The winds were 15-20 and we caught up to and passed a Pacific Seacraft 37. We sailed beside her for awhile and had a nice conversation (well, yelled across to them) with her crew before pulling ahead.

Cathy
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

I have to repectfully disagree with the opinion expressed here. None of the CD'd are 'tanks' in any sense, nor are they as slow as this person represents. Cape Dory's perform quite well in light airs. In our CD30, we took 5th place of 10 entries, in a race that saw winds not exceeding 5 kts. It took 7 hours to complete the darn course, and was a real battle to maintain interest etc. but we beat many boats that were far larger than us, and had fin keels and minimum wetted surface. But there is a trick or two in getting low wind performance out of these boats.

You need a genoa first of all. We use a 140% Genny, and I would say it was about perfect for low and mid level wind use. A yankee jib in place of the genoa would not allow you to have much low wind performance, and this may be the reason for this commenter's poor low wind performance, although he does not mention his sail inventory.

I think that most CD owners that have a larger head sail have found that the CD's will move in 3-5 kts of wind even, although it may take a bit of time to get the speed up. My experience is that the CD's are faster than any other full keeler on the water, and that includes the Pacific Seacraft line, although they come darn close in performance due to their similar beam to length ratios, and fine entry...'course, I AM predjudiced a bit.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~

All the previous comments are right on the money. The 25 finds her groove at about 15-20 degrees upwind. The only time the rail sees the water is if I am running the 150 genny in 18 knot+ apparent. If I feather the main and let her sail the lifts the rail stays up, boat speed is maintained. These boats have an initial tenderness but once your have trimmed properly they are tanks.
Never had water in the cockpit save for spray or the occasional out of synch wave.
THESE ARE NOT LIGHT WIND BOATS. It is my experience that you need a minimum of 10-12 knots to properly sail these creatures. If you sail in an area that has wind speed averages of less than this you might really enjoy another boat. In light winds they are STSS (slower than snail s***t). Just ask Capt JT.

P.S. You can add up to another .75 knot or so by lifting out the outboard. Lot's of drag there.

catherine_monaghan@merck.com

[Alan B.]

Craig,
After logging 84 hours in winds from 0-20kts since purchasing
my CD25 #168 (TestostAlone) on July 6th this year I have found
the boat very stable. In fact, asked a similar question to this
esteemed board of experts a couple months ago. I have had the
rail in the water only twice, 150% Genoa sail-to-block and no
reef in the main, at 35degree heel the toe-rail hits the water.
It takes a lot of wind or a long hard gust to shove her over that
hard, and only once had water in the cockpit (rogue wave broadside).
I take my three little ones aboard (5, 3, 2) with confidence and they
climb all over her at the boat's normal operating range 10-20 degrees
under "optimal" wind conditions and point of sail.

Loving my CD25....



AJBremote@Yahoo.Com