I have been racing my 1978 Typhoon Weekender, Therapy in the Melbourne
Yacht Club informal reverse handicap races. Start times are staggered
so that the theoretically slowest boat (Therapy) starts first and
everyone should finish simultaneously. The races are usually in about
12 knots of wind. We do very well on all but the windward legs.
Going to windward, we usually sail with 150% genoa sheeted to the toe
rail car set all the way forward and tight luff tension. The genoa is
trimmed to the spreader boot. Judging by the tell-tales on both genoa
and mainsail we are getting good airflow. The standing rigging seems
well set-up except the back stay seems a bit slack under no-load
conditions. The mast is centered and has a small amount of rake aft.
I am not surprised that our fin keeled, high aspect main competitors
are out pointing us but think we should be able to point with a Sea
Sprite 23 which beats us consistently.
How high should a Typhoon be able to point under conditions and
equipped as described above?
Fair winds ...
Mike Holmes, SV Therapy
Melbourne, FL
popeye@mindspring.com
Typhoon pointing ability.
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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marv
Re: Typhoon pointing ability.
she should point high but you need to look at the sails and determine if they are old and blown outMike Holmes wrote: I have been racing my 1978 Typhoon Weekender, Therapy in the Melbourne
Yacht Club informal reverse handicap races. Start times are staggered
so that the theoretically slowest boat (Therapy) starts first and
everyone should finish simultaneously. The races are usually in about
12 knots of wind. We do very well on all but the windward legs.
Going to windward, we usually sail with 150% genoa sheeted to the toe
rail car set all the way forward and tight luff tension. The genoa is
trimmed to the spreader boot. Judging by the tell-tales on both genoa
and mainsail we are getting good airflow. The standing rigging seems
well set-up except the back stay seems a bit slack under no-load
conditions. The mast is centered and has a small amount of rake aft.
I am not surprised that our fin keeled, high aspect main competitors
are out pointing us but think we should be able to point with a Sea
Sprite 23 which beats us consistently.
How high should a Typhoon be able to point under conditions and
equipped as described above?
Fair winds ...
Mike Holmes, SV Therapy
Melbourne, FL
when you strap in the gen does it backwind the main? how old are the sails
are you tightening the main so that the upper tell tail flows aft??
are you sailing her on the beat correctly
get someone who is really good and take them for a ride and ask for advise what are your phrf nos?
mibrinn@aol.com
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Anthony P. Jeske
Re: Seasprites
Mike:
I'm afraid you're going to have to grin and bear it when it comes to the Seasprite 23. They'll beat up Typhoons regularly. I used to race a CD-28 against a Seasprite. On PHRF numbers alone, we should have beaten the Seasprite handily, but instead it was always a struggle. They are great boats!
Regards,
Tony Jeske
CD-25D #141
Carpe Diem
San Diego
I'm afraid you're going to have to grin and bear it when it comes to the Seasprite 23. They'll beat up Typhoons regularly. I used to race a CD-28 against a Seasprite. On PHRF numbers alone, we should have beaten the Seasprite handily, but instead it was always a struggle. They are great boats!
Regards,
Tony Jeske
CD-25D #141
Carpe Diem
San Diego
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Mike Holmes
Re: Typhoon pointing ability.
Marv,
Thanks for your reply.
Let's try and define what pointing high means. Does pointing high
mean 40 degrees to true wind direction in 12 knots of wind?
45 degrees? 50? Higher than 40 degrees? My mains'l was made in 1985
by Newport, my Genoa in 1990 by Southsails, a local sail maker who
makes a lot of sails for go-fast boats. Both seem to me to be in very
good condition. Do I want the mains'l to backwind? We trim both to
achieve good foil shape.
I have three sets of tell-tales on the mains'l. We trim the main
so that all stream aft. Aside from sail trim, balanced helm and
keeping her on her feet I know of no way she could be sailed more
correctly.
I have been thinking of having my sail maker go sailing with me.
He could check the standing rigging tune, sail condition and trim
technique.
My handicap number, assigned by an assistant to the Fleet Captain,
is 345.
Thanks again ...
Mike Holmes, SV Therapy, Typhoon HIN 1484
Melbourne, FL
popeye@mindspring.com
Thanks for your reply.
Let's try and define what pointing high means. Does pointing high
mean 40 degrees to true wind direction in 12 knots of wind?
45 degrees? 50? Higher than 40 degrees? My mains'l was made in 1985
by Newport, my Genoa in 1990 by Southsails, a local sail maker who
makes a lot of sails for go-fast boats. Both seem to me to be in very
good condition. Do I want the mains'l to backwind? We trim both to
achieve good foil shape.
I have three sets of tell-tales on the mains'l. We trim the main
so that all stream aft. Aside from sail trim, balanced helm and
keeping her on her feet I know of no way she could be sailed more
correctly.
I have been thinking of having my sail maker go sailing with me.
He could check the standing rigging tune, sail condition and trim
technique.
My handicap number, assigned by an assistant to the Fleet Captain,
is 345.
Thanks again ...
Mike Holmes, SV Therapy, Typhoon HIN 1484
Melbourne, FL
popeye@mindspring.com
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Mike Holmes
Re: Seasprites
Tony,
Thanks for your reply.
The Sea Spright should be faster than the Typhoon on waterline
length alone. But, why should she point higher? She has a fractional
rig and basically the same hull shape. It's tough to take not only
being slower, but sailing farther as well.
Mike Holmes
Typhoon #1484
Therapy
Melbourne, FL
popeye@mindspring.com
Thanks for your reply.
The Sea Spright should be faster than the Typhoon on waterline
length alone. But, why should she point higher? She has a fractional
rig and basically the same hull shape. It's tough to take not only
being slower, but sailing farther as well.
Mike Holmes
Typhoon #1484
Therapy
Melbourne, FL
popeye@mindspring.com
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Harris
Re: Seasprites
I always sailed my Sea Sprite on just a jib upwind as I seldom had crew weight to hold down the boat using a genoa.Reefing came at about 12 knots! Keep in mind the Sea Sprite was a 1957 design...especially intended for CCA offshore racing. I think that in light air it's among the fastest full keel boats out there.I never considered it to point high though. An Ensign has the same 270 phrf and points much higher. That 30 foot mast w/jumper spreaders is no accident on the SS.
If there is alot of powerboat traffic the typhoon tends to get slowed down alot from hobbyhorsing.whereas the SS seems to punch through better. In 20 knots of wind the Ty might acheive an advantage... A freind of mine had a Ty then a SS and said the Ty stood up to 20 knot+ offshore conditions much better than the SS.
hg@myhost.com
If there is alot of powerboat traffic the typhoon tends to get slowed down alot from hobbyhorsing.whereas the SS seems to punch through better. In 20 knots of wind the Ty might acheive an advantage... A freind of mine had a Ty then a SS and said the Ty stood up to 20 knot+ offshore conditions much better than the SS.
hg@myhost.com
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Harris
phrf
surprised that your phrf is so high. In NE the Ty is a 318. Any idea what the Sea Sprite PHRF is? I used 270.
hg@myhost.com
hg@myhost.com
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Mike Holmes
Re: Typhoon pointing ability.
Harris,
As described in my previous posting, the races in which I
participate are informal. My rating of 345 is not certified and,
therefore, does not permit me to enter the more formal Regattas
in the area. The rating was assigned to me by Warren H. (Hasty)
Miller, a past MYC Commodore, and is known as a Hasty Rating. Hasty
takes into account such things as: spinaker or non-spinaker; dry
or wet storage, exotic material genoa; roller furling genoa, genoa
< 150%. My base rating is 309 with 36 added for non-spinaker adding
to 345. I do not know what the Hasty rating is for the Sea Sprite 23.
Regards ...
Mike Holmes
Typhoon #1484
Therapy
Melbourne, FL
popeye@mindspring.com
As described in my previous posting, the races in which I
participate are informal. My rating of 345 is not certified and,
therefore, does not permit me to enter the more formal Regattas
in the area. The rating was assigned to me by Warren H. (Hasty)
Miller, a past MYC Commodore, and is known as a Hasty Rating. Hasty
takes into account such things as: spinaker or non-spinaker; dry
or wet storage, exotic material genoa; roller furling genoa, genoa
< 150%. My base rating is 309 with 36 added for non-spinaker adding
to 345. I do not know what the Hasty rating is for the Sea Sprite 23.
Regards ...
Mike Holmes
Typhoon #1484
Therapy
Melbourne, FL
popeye@mindspring.com
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Don Carr
Re: phrf
Technically a Typhon is not officially PHRF rated due to the fact that it doesn't qualify as a catagory 2 ORC boat. However many sailing clubs / yacht clubs do rate the boat as racing is deemed to be non-exclusionary. Having said this, it will hopefully explain descrepancies in the ratings between clubs in the same geographic area. Just an FYI. Typhoons are fast little boats in the right conditions.
carrds@us.ibm.com
carrds@us.ibm.com
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marv
Re: Typhoon pointing ability.
it is really hard to tell if she is pointing well without comparing it to other boatsMike Holmes wrote: Marv,
Thanks for your reply.
Let's try and define what pointing high means. Does pointing high
mean 40 degrees to true wind direction in 12 knots of wind?
45 degrees? 50? Higher than 40 degrees? My mains'l was made in 1985
by Newport, my Genoa in 1990 by Southsails, a local sail maker who
makes a lot of sails for go-fast boats. Both seem to me to be in very
good condition. Do I want the mains'l to backwind? We trim both to
achieve good foil shape.
I have three sets of tell-tales on the mains'l. We trim the main
so that all stream aft. Aside from sail trim, balanced helm and
keeping her on her feet I know of no way she could be sailed more
correctly.
I have been thinking of having my sail maker go sailing with me.
He could check the standing rigging tune, sail condition and trim
technique.
My handicap number, assigned by an assistant to the Fleet Captain,
is 345.
Thanks again ...
Mike Holmes, SV Therapy, Typhoon HIN 1484
Melbourne, FL
is the bottom clean? are all surfaces fair
345 is a high number so compared to others it is slow
1985 is not new when I raced we had competitors buy new sails every yr!!
you should noit be back winding the main that shows that the gene is too tight or blown out or the main is too full.
the gene touching the spreader sounds ok but try easing off an inch that may increase speed and apparant wind
the tell tails should be almost down on the leach except for the top one which should strean aft most of the time.
do you have a traveller?
the clew point of the gene should be set in medium winds so that all
leach tell tails stream aft at the same time.
Are you watching the gene tell tails in the front and steering her up on the lifts and down on the headers...very important.
a look buy a fresh set of eyes in invaluable.
mibrinn@aol.com
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Mike Holmes
Re: Typhoon pointing ability.
Marv,
Thanks for your reply.
I estimate that the fleet is pointing about 10 degrees higher
than I am.
Therapy's bottom is clean and fair. She was hauled and her bottom
was painted with Trinadad in December, 2000. Trinadad is a high
cuprousoxide content paint for exposure to the brackish water in
which she is moored. It is not particularly smooth and is certainly
not a racing finish.
Therapy's informal "Hasty" rating is based on 309 (with spinnaker)
plus 12 (non-spinnaker) plus 12 (not dry sailed) plus 12 (non-exotic
genoa material) adding to 345.
When my sailmaker goes sailing with me, I'm sure he'll recommend
a new mains'l. After all, he's in the business of making sails.
The main is not back-winding. I'll try easing the Genoa a touch.
I do not have tell-tales on the leach of either sail. All are
about 12 inches back from the luff.
I do not have a traveller but do have a vang.
I am indeed steering by the Genoa tell-tales as you described. If
I have a fault here, I'm probably pinching a bit.
Mike Holmes
Typhoon HIN 1484
Therapy
Melbourne, FL
popeye@mindspring.com
Thanks for your reply.
I estimate that the fleet is pointing about 10 degrees higher
than I am.
Therapy's bottom is clean and fair. She was hauled and her bottom
was painted with Trinadad in December, 2000. Trinadad is a high
cuprousoxide content paint for exposure to the brackish water in
which she is moored. It is not particularly smooth and is certainly
not a racing finish.
Therapy's informal "Hasty" rating is based on 309 (with spinnaker)
plus 12 (non-spinnaker) plus 12 (not dry sailed) plus 12 (non-exotic
genoa material) adding to 345.
When my sailmaker goes sailing with me, I'm sure he'll recommend
a new mains'l. After all, he's in the business of making sails.
The main is not back-winding. I'll try easing the Genoa a touch.
I do not have tell-tales on the leach of either sail. All are
about 12 inches back from the luff.
I do not have a traveller but do have a vang.
I am indeed steering by the Genoa tell-tales as you described. If
I have a fault here, I'm probably pinching a bit.
Mike Holmes
Typhoon HIN 1484
Therapy
Melbourne, FL
popeye@mindspring.com