Latest upgrade report:
Last year while perusing the Spartan catalog I fell in love with the mortised midship cleats that they apparently put on the larger CD/Robinhood models. One size cleat was sized to fit the CD27 toerails so I opened up the wallet and bought two.
They sat on my workbench for a year, because I was too timid to cut into my toerails. Then I found a craftsman (and "boat neighbor") who agreed to install them for me for less than I paid for the cleats! He made laminated marine plywood and aluminum backing plates and bedded the cleats in brown lifecaulk. The cleats have five mounting holes, and each one was through-bolted.
He finished the installation a couple of weeks ago: I could not be more thrilled. I can now run spring lines and/or a breast line amidships, greatly expanding the dockline choices. Plus, they even act as toerail scuppers, letting shipped water flow overboard, relieving some of the duty from the toerail weephole scuppers.
I will try to get some pix posted soon.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173
Second Chance
goldy@bestweb.net
Spartan Midship Cleats on a CD27
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Warren Kaplan
Re: Spartan Midship Cleats on a CD27
Bill,Bill Goldsmith wrote: Latest upgrade report:
Last year while perusing the Spartan catalog I fell in love with the mortised midship cleats that they apparently put on the larger CD/Robinhood models. One size cleat was sized to fit the CD27 toerails so I opened up the wallet and bought two.
They sat on my workbench for a year, because I was too timid to cut into my toerails. Then I found a craftsman (and "boat neighbor") who agreed to install them for me for less than I paid for the cleats! He made laminated marine plywood and aluminum backing plates and bedded the cleats in brown lifecaulk. The cleats have five mounting holes, and each one was through-bolted.
He finished the installation a couple of weeks ago: I could not be more thrilled. I can now run spring lines and/or a breast line amidships, greatly expanding the dockline choices. Plus, they even act as toerail scuppers, letting shipped water flow overboard, relieving some of the duty from the toerail weephole scuppers.
I will try to get some pix posted soon.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173
Second Chance
I am REALLY interested in that. I have been toying with getting either Shaefer or Nautical Engineering track cleats to either put on the genoa track or on my unused jib tracks inboard. But its not my ideal solution for midship cleats. The 27 sorely needs them if you are in a slip. I have lines running from aft pilings forward to bow cleats acting as spring lines but they chafe badly and put constant pressure on the stanchions they come in contact with. Also, track cleats may (??) be too weak to put under heavy load as when the wind in blowing hard at 90 degrees to your tied up boat. I admit to being a little chicken also to cutting into my toe rail. Now that its done on your boat, was it that big a job? Do you think you could have done it?
Warren
S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27
Setsail728@aol.com
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Duncan Maio
Re: Spartan Midship Cleats on a CD27
Bill:Bill Goldsmith wrote: Latest upgrade report:
Last year while perusing the Spartan catalog I fell in love with the mortised midship cleats that they apparently put on the larger CD/Robinhood models. One size cleat was sized to fit the CD27 toerails so I opened up the wallet and bought two.
I also love the midrail cleats on my 27, but the pair I have (catalog #C212) don't fit the profile exactly. they are the right height, but are slightly wider than the toerail (on my 1977 model).
Do you have something different, or are my rails just showing the effects of many years of sanding? I need to rebed mine this year and I am trying to convince myself to machine the cleats to fit the rail more precisely.
Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI
mail@mysticmarine.net
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Bill Goldsmith
Re: Spartan Midship Cleats on a CD27
Warren:
I am a very handy DIY kinda guy (probably like most CDers), and in hindsight would have had no problem doing the installation. Part of my problem was making the time, and I did not want to rush the job, so I was happy to farm it out to a fellow whose work I had seen locally and admired. Plus, he was enthusiastic about doing the job after seeing the cleats and the obvious need for them.
It was interesting to see how he went about it. He mounted a teak replica of the toe-rail on a piece of plywood and practiced cutting the mortice on that piece before ever taking a coping saw to the actual toe rail. It gave him a sense of how to cut it in in advance of working on the real thing.
The backing plate was a work of art. He took a piece of what he described as "an old aluminum stop sign" and glued it to some 1/2 inch marine plywood which he sealed with epoxy. that provided the needed thickness without the difficulty in dealing with a thick metal backing plate. Belowdecks, the bolts come through VERY close to the inner edge of the hull, only just enough to get a combination wrench around the nuts. Therefore a backing plate is the only way to go--you could never get a fender washer in that tight spot.
So I know I could have done it, and especially with the tips I learned from seeing his work (especially cutting a practice "toe rail"), it is a very doable DIY project.
Bill
goldy@bestweb.net
I am a very handy DIY kinda guy (probably like most CDers), and in hindsight would have had no problem doing the installation. Part of my problem was making the time, and I did not want to rush the job, so I was happy to farm it out to a fellow whose work I had seen locally and admired. Plus, he was enthusiastic about doing the job after seeing the cleats and the obvious need for them.
It was interesting to see how he went about it. He mounted a teak replica of the toe-rail on a piece of plywood and practiced cutting the mortice on that piece before ever taking a coping saw to the actual toe rail. It gave him a sense of how to cut it in in advance of working on the real thing.
The backing plate was a work of art. He took a piece of what he described as "an old aluminum stop sign" and glued it to some 1/2 inch marine plywood which he sealed with epoxy. that provided the needed thickness without the difficulty in dealing with a thick metal backing plate. Belowdecks, the bolts come through VERY close to the inner edge of the hull, only just enough to get a combination wrench around the nuts. Therefore a backing plate is the only way to go--you could never get a fender washer in that tight spot.
So I know I could have done it, and especially with the tips I learned from seeing his work (especially cutting a practice "toe rail"), it is a very doable DIY project.
Bill
Warren Kaplan wrote: Latest upgrade report:
Bill,Bill Goldsmith wrote: Last year while perusing the Spartan catalog I fell in love with the mortised midship cleats that they apparently put on the larger CD/Robinhood models. One size cleat was sized to fit the CD27 toerails so I opened up the wallet and bought two.
They sat on my workbench for a year, because I was too timid to cut into my toerails. Then I found a craftsman (and "boat neighbor") who agreed to install them for me for less than I paid for the cleats! He made laminated marine plywood and aluminum backing plates and bedded the cleats in brown lifecaulk. The cleats have five mounting holes, and each one was through-bolted.
He finished the installation a couple of weeks ago: I could not be more thrilled. I can now run spring lines and/or a breast line amidships, greatly expanding the dockline choices. Plus, they even act as toerail scuppers, letting shipped water flow overboard, relieving some of the duty from the toerail weephole scuppers.
I will try to get some pix posted soon.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173
Second Chance
I am REALLY interested in that. I have been toying with getting either Shaefer or Nautical Engineering track cleats to either put on the genoa track or on my unused jib tracks inboard. But its not my ideal solution for midship cleats. The 27 sorely needs them if you are in a slip. I have lines running from aft pilings forward to bow cleats acting as spring lines but they chafe badly and put constant pressure on the stanchions they come in contact with. Also, track cleats may (??) be too weak to put under heavy load as when the wind in blowing hard at 90 degrees to your tied up boat. I admit to being a little chicken also to cutting into my toe rail. Now that its done on your boat, was it that big a job? Do you think you could have done it?
Warren
S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27
goldy@bestweb.net
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Bill Goldsmith
Re: Spartan Midship Cleats on a CD27
Duncan:
I am not familiar with different dimensions on different model years (I think you are more of an expert on that than most, from reading your prior posts). I don't have the catalog handy, but I believe there were several sizes available--I measured my toerails and just ordered the one that seemed to match the closest and got lucky.
On Second Chance, the cleats (More accuratetly the cleat/chocks) do in fact stick UP proud of the top of the toerail about 1/8" on the port side where a prior owner went bananas with a sander. But the width is correct. (The corner edges are not sharp so I'm leaving it alone). My guess would be that prior sandings would tend to **shorten** the toerails more than it would **narrow** the toerails, hence my hunch that a different size might have been needed. Only a guess. Hard to know what was done in the past (if only our boats could talk...........)
If you have the burnished ones as opposed to the polished ones I can't see much difficulty with grinding yours a bit to fit better. But you might consider checking with Spartan to see if there is a more appropriate size, particularly if the hole spacing is the same so no new holes are needed. If so I'm sure someone would be interested in your used ones to defray the cost of new ones. Of course if the mortice and hole spacing is different on the other size I'd just keep the ones you have and maybe modify them as you suggested.
Just my $0.02
Bill
goldy@bestweb.net
I am not familiar with different dimensions on different model years (I think you are more of an expert on that than most, from reading your prior posts). I don't have the catalog handy, but I believe there were several sizes available--I measured my toerails and just ordered the one that seemed to match the closest and got lucky.
On Second Chance, the cleats (More accuratetly the cleat/chocks) do in fact stick UP proud of the top of the toerail about 1/8" on the port side where a prior owner went bananas with a sander. But the width is correct. (The corner edges are not sharp so I'm leaving it alone). My guess would be that prior sandings would tend to **shorten** the toerails more than it would **narrow** the toerails, hence my hunch that a different size might have been needed. Only a guess. Hard to know what was done in the past (if only our boats could talk...........)
If you have the burnished ones as opposed to the polished ones I can't see much difficulty with grinding yours a bit to fit better. But you might consider checking with Spartan to see if there is a more appropriate size, particularly if the hole spacing is the same so no new holes are needed. If so I'm sure someone would be interested in your used ones to defray the cost of new ones. Of course if the mortice and hole spacing is different on the other size I'd just keep the ones you have and maybe modify them as you suggested.
Just my $0.02
Bill
Duncan Maio wrote:Bill:Bill Goldsmith wrote: Latest upgrade report:
Last year while perusing the Spartan catalog I fell in love with the mortised midship cleats that they apparently put on the larger CD/Robinhood models. One size cleat was sized to fit the CD27 toerails so I opened up the wallet and bought two.
I also love the midrail cleats on my 27, but the pair I have (catalog #C212) don't fit the profile exactly. they are the right height, but are slightly wider than the toerail (on my 1977 model).
Do you have something different, or are my rails just showing the effects of many years of sanding? I need to rebed mine this year and I am trying to convince myself to machine the cleats to fit the rail more precisely.
Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI
goldy@bestweb.net
-
Steve I.
Re: Spartan Midship Cleats on a CD27
Is there a web site to see these " toe rail cleats",they sound great.Bill Goldsmith wrote: Latest upgrade report:
Last year while perusing the Spartan catalog I fell in love with the mortised midship cleats that they apparently put on the larger CD/Robinhood models. One size cleat was sized to fit the CD27 toerails so I opened up the wallet and bought two.
They sat on my workbench for a year, because I was too timid to cut into my toerails. Then I found a craftsman (and "boat neighbor") who agreed to install them for me for less than I paid for the cleats! He made laminated marine plywood and aluminum backing plates and bedded the cleats in brown lifecaulk. The cleats have five mounting holes, and each one was through-bolted.
He finished the installation a couple of weeks ago: I could not be more thrilled. I can now run spring lines and/or a breast line amidships, greatly expanding the dockline choices. Plus, they even act as toerail scuppers, letting shipped water flow overboard, relieving some of the duty from the toerail weephole scuppers.
I will try to get some pix posted soon.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173
Second Chance
chiping@tcol.net
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Bill Goldsmith
Re: Spartan Midship Cleats on a CD27
Not that I know of. They are in the Spartan catalog which is not online. They have rudimentary website where you can get the number to order their paper catalog. I'll hopefully get some pics that can be linked to in the next week or so.Steve I. wrote: Is there a web site to see these " toe rail cleats",they sound great.
Bill
goldy@bestweb.net