I purchased a '75 CD25 and need to refinish the teak. Currently there is a varnish that is blistering and curling off in some areas. Some spots look as good as fine furniture! Should I strip it all down to bare wood and reapply cetol? Could I just scrap the blisters and lightly sand the rest? Any chemical stripper products you think work best? I know.. lots of questions.. Thanks in advance for any tips !
John
Laton@ynhh.com
Teak refinishing CD 25
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Bill Goldsmith
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25
John:
With regard to the blistering varnish there is really no alternative but to remove it. When I bought Second Chance the varnish was in similar shape. Some spots were gorgeous and others were flaking. As there were other more pressing chores to accomplish, I let nature do some more "stripping" for me for a season. You may get away with doing some spot brightwork repair as a short term solution, but ultimately you'll need to strip it off and restart from bare teak.
For stripping, don't bother with chemicals. Get a good heat gun and a good "pull" scraper like the orange handled ones they sell in Home Depot. Heat the varnish until it just begins to bubble and scrape it off. It will come off like butter. After a bit of practice you will get a lot stripped in a short period. Just be careful not to burn the wood (dark spots) or your fingers!
You'll then need to clean the varnish out of the grain either by sanding or a teak cleaner like Teak-Nu. Then a light sanding to get the scrape marks off. Once blonde, you have a blank canvas.
Search this board for Cetol, Armada, Bristol Finish, Honey Teak and you will gain a huge volume of advice (and strong opinions) about these products. Also, Practical Sailor has published reviews of non-traditional non-varnish finishes as well as traditional varnish products. The choice is a complex personal decision based on cost, future maintenance and appearance.
I chose Honey Teak despite its drawbacks (high cost, complex mixing), mainly for its close-to-varnish looks, the fact that in the future you only need to clear-coat it, ease of spot repair and Practical Sailor's review putting it on the top. I did my own personal test by refinishing only the tiller at the beginning of the 1999 season, left it outside all winter 1990-2000 and still looked great last spring when I decided to do the rest of the boat. (By the way, it still looks great, and this spring I will give it a clear-coat.)
Others prefer Cetol for its ease of application and maintenance, despite subjective differences of opinion about its appearance. I think it looks fine.
Still others swear by Armada, Bristol Finish, and just letting the teak go gray.
Best of luck with your project.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27
Second Chance
goldy@bestweb.net
With regard to the blistering varnish there is really no alternative but to remove it. When I bought Second Chance the varnish was in similar shape. Some spots were gorgeous and others were flaking. As there were other more pressing chores to accomplish, I let nature do some more "stripping" for me for a season. You may get away with doing some spot brightwork repair as a short term solution, but ultimately you'll need to strip it off and restart from bare teak.
For stripping, don't bother with chemicals. Get a good heat gun and a good "pull" scraper like the orange handled ones they sell in Home Depot. Heat the varnish until it just begins to bubble and scrape it off. It will come off like butter. After a bit of practice you will get a lot stripped in a short period. Just be careful not to burn the wood (dark spots) or your fingers!
You'll then need to clean the varnish out of the grain either by sanding or a teak cleaner like Teak-Nu. Then a light sanding to get the scrape marks off. Once blonde, you have a blank canvas.
Search this board for Cetol, Armada, Bristol Finish, Honey Teak and you will gain a huge volume of advice (and strong opinions) about these products. Also, Practical Sailor has published reviews of non-traditional non-varnish finishes as well as traditional varnish products. The choice is a complex personal decision based on cost, future maintenance and appearance.
I chose Honey Teak despite its drawbacks (high cost, complex mixing), mainly for its close-to-varnish looks, the fact that in the future you only need to clear-coat it, ease of spot repair and Practical Sailor's review putting it on the top. I did my own personal test by refinishing only the tiller at the beginning of the 1999 season, left it outside all winter 1990-2000 and still looked great last spring when I decided to do the rest of the boat. (By the way, it still looks great, and this spring I will give it a clear-coat.)
Others prefer Cetol for its ease of application and maintenance, despite subjective differences of opinion about its appearance. I think it looks fine.
Still others swear by Armada, Bristol Finish, and just letting the teak go gray.
Best of luck with your project.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27
Second Chance
John Laton wrote: I purchased a '75 CD25 and need to refinish the teak. Currently there is a varnish that is blistering and curling off in some areas. Some spots look as good as fine furniture! Should I strip it all down to bare wood and reapply cetol? Could I just scrap the blisters and lightly sand the rest? Any chemical stripper products you think work best? I know.. lots of questions.. Thanks in advance for any tips !
John
goldy@bestweb.net
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25
John,
It depends on how much into varnishing you are, or to put it another way..would you rather sand or sail? Here is what I would do in your case:
Sand off the old finish to bare wood using progressively finer sandpaper but not exceeding 100 grit. Use a paste stripper on areas where there are corners and features that make sanding a pain in the keister. These work well, but don't forget to neutralize the agent afterwards (important)..this may simply be a thorough washing down and drying..check the instructions.
Equalize the coloration of the wood if needed, using bleach (1:10 in water) to lighten the wood to that level of the surrounding wood, or a brown *transparent* stain, applied and then rubbed off to darken the wood to that of the surrounding wood. Allow to dry.
Using either Blue Paper tape or the plastic green colored Fine-Line Tape, both by 3M, isolate all wood to be refinished from the surrounding glass. This step is the separator between beginner and experienced finsihes. A clean sharp line where the finish ends marks experience.
Use Cetol Base..or the non-gloss Cetol first. Apply 2-3 coats over all wood, using a series of foam brushes..smaller ones for tight spots, larger ones for larger areas (I know -obvous!). Allow to dry overnight. Apply 3-5 coats of Cetol Gloss with a foam brush, being careful of the conditions you apply it in. Try mid-morning, with an indirect sun. Temps above 50 deg. are best. Do not carry on until dark..stop 2 hrs. before sunset to avoid dew formation which will ruin your work with thousands of little dimples, or a general fogging of the finish.
Let 1 day go between recoating -longer if possible in the spring like this. I use a weeks drying period between coats.
Yearly maintenance is simple. Wash with soap/water, rinse well, and dry. Apply one coat of GLOSS only with foam brush..Done.
N.B. The Cetol Base or regular or satin finish is fairly highly pigmented, and successive coats will take that surface through the color chart to black if too many are applied. 2-3 coats are the maximum that will still allow good transparency, a pleasing coloration and the grain to show through. It is the coloration that provides the UV protection. The gloss coat provides a hard surface to protect from chafing wearing through the UV coat. It also resembles the finish you can get with varnish..although with varnish, the mirror like finish is somewhat more pronounced.
That's it. Most of the work is in preparation of the surface, as is usually the case with projects like this.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
It depends on how much into varnishing you are, or to put it another way..would you rather sand or sail? Here is what I would do in your case:
Sand off the old finish to bare wood using progressively finer sandpaper but not exceeding 100 grit. Use a paste stripper on areas where there are corners and features that make sanding a pain in the keister. These work well, but don't forget to neutralize the agent afterwards (important)..this may simply be a thorough washing down and drying..check the instructions.
Equalize the coloration of the wood if needed, using bleach (1:10 in water) to lighten the wood to that level of the surrounding wood, or a brown *transparent* stain, applied and then rubbed off to darken the wood to that of the surrounding wood. Allow to dry.
Using either Blue Paper tape or the plastic green colored Fine-Line Tape, both by 3M, isolate all wood to be refinished from the surrounding glass. This step is the separator between beginner and experienced finsihes. A clean sharp line where the finish ends marks experience.
Use Cetol Base..or the non-gloss Cetol first. Apply 2-3 coats over all wood, using a series of foam brushes..smaller ones for tight spots, larger ones for larger areas (I know -obvous!). Allow to dry overnight. Apply 3-5 coats of Cetol Gloss with a foam brush, being careful of the conditions you apply it in. Try mid-morning, with an indirect sun. Temps above 50 deg. are best. Do not carry on until dark..stop 2 hrs. before sunset to avoid dew formation which will ruin your work with thousands of little dimples, or a general fogging of the finish.
Let 1 day go between recoating -longer if possible in the spring like this. I use a weeks drying period between coats.
Yearly maintenance is simple. Wash with soap/water, rinse well, and dry. Apply one coat of GLOSS only with foam brush..Done.
N.B. The Cetol Base or regular or satin finish is fairly highly pigmented, and successive coats will take that surface through the color chart to black if too many are applied. 2-3 coats are the maximum that will still allow good transparency, a pleasing coloration and the grain to show through. It is the coloration that provides the UV protection. The gloss coat provides a hard surface to protect from chafing wearing through the UV coat. It also resembles the finish you can get with varnish..although with varnish, the mirror like finish is somewhat more pronounced.
That's it. Most of the work is in preparation of the surface, as is usually the case with projects like this.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
John Laton wrote: I purchased a '75 CD25 and need to refinish the teak. Currently there is a varnish that is blistering and curling off in some areas. Some spots look as good as fine furniture! Should I strip it all down to bare wood and reapply cetol? Could I just scrap the blisters and lightly sand the rest? Any chemical stripper products you think work best? I know.. lots of questions.. Thanks in advance for any tips !
John
demers@sgi.com
-
Robert
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25
I just refinished all the exterior teak on my CD28 with Cetol. One of the things I discovered, by accident, is that the finished color of the Cetol is heavily influence by the color of the wood just before you apply the Cetol. I removed the cockpit combings (spell?), took them home, removed the old finish (heat gun and scrapper plus sanding), used a bleach solution to lighten the color, and applied the Cetol that same day. After three coats, the color looked good, except where the teak was its lightest, there was a little of the infamous Cetol "orange"---actually looks greenish-yellow to me. (This is why Cetol looks its worst color when it gets on the white gelcoat. I know this from experience also!)
The rest of the teak I had to do on weekends when weather permitted. Some of the teak went for over two weeks between final sanding and putting on the Cetol. It had a darker brown color than the just-bleached look of the combings. The same three coats of Cetol on this wood produced a beautiful golden brown color. I never expected the Cetol to look this good. I was amazed. Got lots of nice comments from neighbors.
So, I would recommend letting the teak age a bit before Cetoling. Don'y let it go gray, however, because this will result in a darker gray color after the Cetol goes on.
Good Luck,
Robert s/v Zephyr CD28 #230
rbtfsh@utb1.utb.edu
The rest of the teak I had to do on weekends when weather permitted. Some of the teak went for over two weeks between final sanding and putting on the Cetol. It had a darker brown color than the just-bleached look of the combings. The same three coats of Cetol on this wood produced a beautiful golden brown color. I never expected the Cetol to look this good. I was amazed. Got lots of nice comments from neighbors.
So, I would recommend letting the teak age a bit before Cetoling. Don'y let it go gray, however, because this will result in a darker gray color after the Cetol goes on.
Good Luck,
Robert s/v Zephyr CD28 #230
rbtfsh@utb1.utb.edu
-
John Laton
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25 Thanks !!
Thank you both !! I like the "let it flake" idea since I have to take "Happy Daze" from Point Judith RI to her new home in New Haven CT. this May. And, since I have never sailed more than a day, am looking forward to the "adventure".
I have the hatchway cover boards at home and will "experiment" with both ideas.
Again thank you for your wonderful advice.. hopefully soon I'll be able to give some myself !
John
Laton@ynhh.com
I have the hatchway cover boards at home and will "experiment" with both ideas.
Again thank you for your wonderful advice.. hopefully soon I'll be able to give some myself !
John
Laton@ynhh.com
-
eric
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25
Larry describes beautifully how to prep for Cetol. But if you like the look of varnish better, as I do (by a lot) you will need to apply 4-6 coats the first year, with light sanding between each coat. I did this last year and am thrilled with the results. I won't kid you, it's alot of work, but if you enjoy taking care of your boat, it's worth it.
IN future years, one or two coats is all that's needed, depending on the qualify of your first work.
eric woodman
woodman_eric@emc.com
IN future years, one or two coats is all that's needed, depending on the qualify of your first work.
eric woodman
Larry DeMers wrote: John,
It depends on how much into varnishing you are, or to put it another way..would you rather sand or sail? Here is what I would do in your case:
Sand off the old finish to bare wood using progressively finer sandpaper but not exceeding 100 grit. Use a paste stripper on areas where there are corners and features that make sanding a pain in the keister. These work well, but don't forget to neutralize the agent afterwards (important)..this may simply be a thorough washing down and drying..check the instructions.
Equalize the coloration of the wood if needed, using bleach (1:10 in water) to lighten the wood to that level of the surrounding wood, or a brown *transparent* stain, applied and then rubbed off to darken the wood to that of the surrounding wood. Allow to dry.
Using either Blue Paper tape or the plastic green colored Fine-Line Tape, both by 3M, isolate all wood to be refinished from the surrounding glass. This step is the separator between beginner and experienced finsihes. A clean sharp line where the finish ends marks experience.
Use Cetol Base..or the non-gloss Cetol first. Apply 2-3 coats over all wood, using a series of foam brushes..smaller ones for tight spots, larger ones for larger areas (I know -obvous!). Allow to dry overnight. Apply 3-5 coats of Cetol Gloss with a foam brush, being careful of the conditions you apply it in. Try mid-morning, with an indirect sun. Temps above 50 deg. are best. Do not carry on until dark..stop 2 hrs. before sunset to avoid dew formation which will ruin your work with thousands of little dimples, or a general fogging of the finish.
Let 1 day go between recoating -longer if possible in the spring like this. I use a weeks drying period between coats.
Yearly maintenance is simple. Wash with soap/water, rinse well, and dry. Apply one coat of GLOSS only with foam brush..Done.
N.B. The Cetol Base or regular or satin finish is fairly highly pigmented, and successive coats will take that surface through the color chart to black if too many are applied. 2-3 coats are the maximum that will still allow good transparency, a pleasing coloration and the grain to show through. It is the coloration that provides the UV protection. The gloss coat provides a hard surface to protect from chafing wearing through the UV coat. It also resembles the finish you can get with varnish..although with varnish, the mirror like finish is somewhat more pronounced.
That's it. Most of the work is in preparation of the surface, as is usually the case with projects like this.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
John Laton wrote: I purchased a '75 CD25 and need to refinish the teak. Currently there is a varnish that is blistering and curling off in some areas. Some spots look as good as fine furniture! Should I strip it all down to bare wood and reapply cetol? Could I just scrap the blisters and lightly sand the rest? Any chemical stripper products you think work best? I know.. lots of questions.. Thanks in advance for any tips !
John
woodman_eric@emc.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25
Boy is that true! I stripped and refinished a brand new teak folding cockpit table, using 8 coats of Cetol gloss over 3 coats of base cetol, on top of carefully chosen oil stain in 3 shades..now to explain this nutz situation..
I bought this beautiful (in the catalog)table, but when I got the box open, the wood wasgreat, but three shades of brown, covered by a bad finish. So I tried to correct the color of the two lightest shades with stain, and then overcoat with gloss. Turned out great. Now the refinishing is simple. The wood will forever more be matched in color.
If you don't have enough time to wait for weathering, then here's an idea:
To lighten, use a weak bleach solution applied then rinsed copiously.
To darken, use oil based stain slightly lighter than the shade you want (sneak up on it by apply, wipe off..repeat).
Hope this helps a bit. CD's have beautiful teakwork and they make your boat unique.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
I bought this beautiful (in the catalog)table, but when I got the box open, the wood wasgreat, but three shades of brown, covered by a bad finish. So I tried to correct the color of the two lightest shades with stain, and then overcoat with gloss. Turned out great. Now the refinishing is simple. The wood will forever more be matched in color.
If you don't have enough time to wait for weathering, then here's an idea:
To lighten, use a weak bleach solution applied then rinsed copiously.
To darken, use oil based stain slightly lighter than the shade you want (sneak up on it by apply, wipe off..repeat).
Hope this helps a bit. CD's have beautiful teakwork and they make your boat unique.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Robert wrote: I just refinished all the exterior teak on my CD28 with Cetol. One of the things I discovered, by accident, is that the finished color of the Cetol is heavily influence by the color of the wood just before you apply the Cetol. I removed the cockpit combings (spell?), took them home, removed the old finish (heat gun and scrapper plus sanding), used a bleach solution to lighten the color, and applied the Cetol that same day. After three coats, the color looked good, except where the teak was its lightest, there was a little of the infamous Cetol "orange"---actually looks greenish-yellow to me. (This is why Cetol looks its worst color when it gets on the white gelcoat. I know this from experience also!)
The rest of the teak I had to do on weekends when weather permitted. Some of the teak went for over two weeks between final sanding and putting on the Cetol. It had a darker brown color than the just-bleached look of the combings. The same three coats of Cetol on this wood produced a beautiful golden brown color. I never expected the Cetol to look this good. I was amazed. Got lots of nice comments from neighbors.
So, I would recommend letting the teak age a bit before Cetoling. Don'y let it go gray, however, because this will result in a darker gray color after the Cetol goes on.
Good Luck,
Robert s/v Zephyr CD28 #230
demers@sgi.com
-
Dick Turner
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25
MysticalJohn Laton wrote: Try wiping your Cetol with Acetone between coats. It really brings out the shine and removes any particles from sanding.
tbrhin1@gibralter.net
-
Ben Thomas
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25
John, I've replaced and refinished the combing boards on my 30, made curved seat with the old combings fits aft of wheel. It ends up being personal choice as to what finish I used, all the existing teak had cetol finish very much in need. I used Bristol Finish, (high gloss traditional amber) on the new combing boards and the new seat. This is a three part acrylic urethane. according to bristol finish it lasts 24 months to cetols 8months and z=spars 4 months with same number of applications in exposure to florida sun. time will tell. regardless I really love the finish. same kind of prep. work. application is easy plus you can control the viscosity and dry time with the reducer. no sanding between coats less the 24hrs old. respirator is required for the fumes. a good one! good luck , BenJohn Laton wrote: I purchased a '75 CD25 and need to refinish the teak. Currently there is a varnish that is blistering and curling off in some areas. Some spots look as good as fine furniture! Should I strip it all down to bare wood and reapply cetol? Could I just scrap the blisters and lightly sand the rest? Any chemical stripper products you think work best? I know.. lots of questions.. Thanks in advance for any tips !
John
btlandscapers@imagina.com
-
Clay Stalker
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25
While we're on this subject, does anyone know if I need to sand an Armada finish before I put a maintenance coat on this spring. The previous owner of SALSA did a beautiful job refinishing the exterior with Armada, and I would like to keep it up. Any advice would be appreciated.
Clay Stalker
s/v SALSA CD27 #247
cstalker@cheshire.net
Clay Stalker
s/v SALSA CD27 #247
Bill Goldsmith wrote: John:
With regard to the blistering varnish there is really no alternative but to remove it. When I bought Second Chance the varnish was in similar shape. Some spots were gorgeous and others were flaking. As there were other more pressing chores to accomplish, I let nature do some more "stripping" for me for a season. You may get away with doing some spot brightwork repair as a short term solution, but ultimately you'll need to strip it off and restart from bare teak.
For stripping, don't bother with chemicals. Get a good heat gun and a good "pull" scraper like the orange handled ones they sell in Home Depot. Heat the varnish until it just begins to bubble and scrape it off. It will come off like butter. After a bit of practice you will get a lot stripped in a short period. Just be careful not to burn the wood (dark spots) or your fingers!
You'll then need to clean the varnish out of the grain either by sanding or a teak cleaner like Teak-Nu. Then a light sanding to get the scrape marks off. Once blonde, you have a blank canvas.
Search this board for Cetol, Armada, Bristol Finish, Honey Teak and you will gain a huge volume of advice (and strong opinions) about these products. Also, Practical Sailor has published reviews of non-traditional non-varnish finishes as well as traditional varnish products. The choice is a complex personal decision based on cost, future maintenance and appearance.
I chose Honey Teak despite its drawbacks (high cost, complex mixing), mainly for its close-to-varnish looks, the fact that in the future you only need to clear-coat it, ease of spot repair and Practical Sailor's review putting it on the top. I did my own personal test by refinishing only the tiller at the beginning of the 1999 season, left it outside all winter 1990-2000 and still looked great last spring when I decided to do the rest of the boat. (By the way, it still looks great, and this spring I will give it a clear-coat.)
Others prefer Cetol for its ease of application and maintenance, despite subjective differences of opinion about its appearance. I think it looks fine.
Still others swear by Armada, Bristol Finish, and just letting the teak go gray.
Best of luck with your project.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27
Second Chance
John Laton wrote: I purchased a '75 CD25 and need to refinish the teak. Currently there is a varnish that is blistering and curling off in some areas. Some spots look as good as fine furniture! Should I strip it all down to bare wood and reapply cetol? Could I just scrap the blisters and lightly sand the rest? Any chemical stripper products you think work best? I know.. lots of questions.. Thanks in advance for any tips !
John
cstalker@cheshire.net
-
Tom
Re: Teak refinishing CD 25
Clay, The directions say that all you need to do is scuff it up with scotch brite pad before re-painting, but I sanded a few thin spots with 220 paper before I re-applied mine, you don't need to sand the whole works though. You might try a small section with the pad and see what you think. If you do sand it a very light going over would be all you need. Like maybe less than 1/2 hour for the whole boat.Clay Stalker wrote: While we're on this subject, does anyone know if I need to sand an Armada finish before I put a maintenance coat on this spring. The previous owner of SALSA did a beautiful job refinishing the exterior with Armada, and I would like to keep it up. Any advice would be appreciated.
Clay Stalker
s/v SALSA CD27 #247
Clay Stalker wrote:Bill Goldsmith wrote: John:
With regard to the blistering varnish there is really no alternative but to remove it. When I bought Second Chance the varnish was in similar shape. Some spots were gorgeous and others were flaking. As there were other more pressing chores to accomplish, I let nature do some more "stripping" for me for a season. You may get away with doing some spot brightwork repair as a short term solution, but ultimately you'll need to strip it off and restart from bare teak.
For stripping, don't bother with chemicals. Get a good heat gun and a good "pull" scraper like the orange handled ones they sell in Home Depot. Heat the varnish until it just begins to bubble and scrape it off. It will come off like butter. After a bit of practice you will get a lot stripped in a short period. Just be careful not to burn the wood (dark spots) or your fingers!
You'll then need to clean the varnish out of the grain either by sanding or a teak cleaner like Teak-Nu. Then a light sanding to get the scrape marks off. Once blonde, you have a blank canvas.
Search this board for Cetol, Armada, Bristol Finish, Honey Teak and you will gain a huge volume of advice (and strong opinions) about these products. Also, Practical Sailor has published reviews of non-traditional non-varnish finishes as well as traditional varnish products. The choice is a complex personal decision based on cost, future maintenance and appearance.
I chose Honey Teak despite its drawbacks (high cost, complex mixing), mainly for its close-to-varnish looks, the fact that in the future you only need to clear-coat it, ease of spot repair and Practical Sailor's review putting it on the top. I did my own personal test by refinishing only the tiller at the beginning of the 1999 season, left it outside all winter 1990-2000 and still looked great last spring when I decided to do the rest of the boat. (By the way, it still looks great, and this spring I will give it a clear-coat.)
Others prefer Cetol for its ease of application and maintenance, despite subjective differences of opinion about its appearance. I think it looks fine.
Still others swear by Armada, Bristol Finish, and just letting the teak go gray.
Best of luck with your project.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27
Second Chance
John Laton wrote: I purchased a '75 CD25 and need to refinish the teak. Currently there is a varnish that is blistering and curling off in some areas. Some spots look as good as fine furniture! Should I strip it all down to bare wood and reapply cetol? Could I just scrap the blisters and lightly sand the rest? Any chemical stripper products you think work best? I know.. lots of questions.. Thanks in advance for any tips !
John
TomCambria@mindspring.com