When will Sikkens listen?

[Hal]

It's always interesting to see the comments/suggestions stemming from those posing the "varnish vs oil?" question. Nine times out of ten, Sikkens (Cetol) is suggested as a good product to use. And eight times out of ten the accompanying caveat is, "but it's such a god-awful orange color!". I can't believe Sikkens hasn't yet had an earfull of this common and valid complaint and, hasn't done something about it! I know, the orange color are the oxides in the "paint" which serve as 9/10's of the UV protection. The less oxides, the clearer the finish (showing the natural beauty of the wood) BUT clearer finishes allow more UV to penetrate the surface and breakdown the bond at the paint/wood interface. My question to Sikkens though- why don't you people start using pigments/ oxides that closer resemble the color of REAL wood? Actually, I called the US distributor (Sikkens is a scandahovian co.)and wasn't met with a very cordial, "productive" response to my query. Personally I think they were just frustrated with yet another customer calling to say "great product" but....."can't you do something about that god-awful orange color".

For those who may not know, Sikkens offers a house paint line that has a much better color selection. The compromise is that the marine version ("Cetol") has more acylic solids that are also perhaps a tad bit better in quality. I sail on lakes (not by choice) so my environment is not as harsh as that of saltwater. I can tell you though that on my boat, the house version of Sikkens has held up great and I haven't had to settle for "that god-awful orange color".

A footnote on Armada's finish (phenolic based vs. Sikkens acrylic based). The people at Armada are wonderful and have an excellent product but I still think it's a close second to Sikkens. However, Armada does not hold a gun to your head the way Sikkens does when it comes to cost per gallon.

PS Hey! I think I've found a Typhoon that I'm going to buy (so I can stop bugging you "board members" about wanting to buy one and can become a legitimate member of the CD community)



ficadoor@aol.com

[John]

Hal:
Have you tried the "light" version and is it any better? I saw a sample of the light at a vendor show in Chicago a few weeks back and couldn't tell if it was a whole lot better. Also, West Marine has a house product that supposedly looks a lot better. Does anyone know how it compares for durability? Last question. A wooden boat friend of mine mentioned a product called (I think) Mr. Smith's. Has anyone heard of this? The teak is coming off of the typhoon this weekend so I need to settle on a varnish or substitute.
John

It's always interesting to see the comments/suggestions stemming from those posing the "varnish vs oil?" question. Nine times out of ten, Sikkens (Cetol) is suggested as a good product to use. And eight times out of ten the accompanying caveat is, "but it's such a god-awful orange color!". I can't believe Sikkens hasn't yet had an earfull of this common and valid complaint and, hasn't done something about it! I know, the orange color are the oxides in the "paint" which serve as 9/10's of the UV protection. The less oxides, the clearer the finish (showing the natural beauty of the wood) BUT clearer finishes allow more UV to penetrate the surface and breakdown the bond at the paint/wood interface. My question to Sikkens though- why don't you people start using pigments/ oxides that closer resemble the color of REAL wood? Actually, I called the US distributor (Sikkens is a scandahovian co.)and wasn't met with a very cordial, "productive" response to my query. Personally I think they were just frustrated with yet another customer calling to say "great product" but....."can't you do something about that god-awful orange color".

For those who may not know, Sikkens offers a house paint line that has a much better color selection. The compromise is that the marine version ("Cetol") has more acylic solids that are also perhaps a tad bit better in quality. I sail on lakes (not by choice) so my environment is not as harsh as that of saltwater. I can tell you though that on my boat, the house version of Sikkens has held up great and I haven't had to settle for "that god-awful orange color".

A footnote on Armada's finish (phenolic based vs. Sikkens acrylic based). The people at Armada are wonderful and have an excellent product but I still think it's a close second to Sikkens. However, Armada does not hold a gun to your head the way Sikkens does when it comes to cost per gallon.

PS Hey! I think I've found a Typhoon that I'm going to buy (so I can stop bugging you "board members" about wanting to buy one and can become a legitimate member of the CD community)

broakmar@navix.net

[John Nuttall]

Last time I checked, Practical Sailor rated Smith & Co's Five Year Clear product tops in performance, but also tops in $$$ (the old addage "you get what you pay for" comes to mind here......)

I got their literature, and they explained that their ingredients, particularly their UV filters are the best and most expensive available. And CLEAR too boot ?! So much for Cetol's orange oxides ???

The folks on the Wooden Boat Forum discuss this topic alot. You should check out their forum. There is a guy who goes by the name of "The Chemist" that has some really amazing answers.

I think Cetol must be a nasty word to those folks, they are pretty much varnish purists with their brightwork. Not many of them use synthetic finishes either (Honey Teak, Bristol Finish, Decto).

But the majority of them use Smith's CPES - Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer - as a base coat under their varnish. I am going to try that stuff myself. (As a base coat under Bristol Finish.) I think it will help alot, based on the comments the Wooden Boat guys make.

I have already used Bristol Finish on the coamings without it, so I'll have a little science experiment going....

Anyway, until somebody comes up with the PERFECT coating, this topic will always be up for discussion.

check out these links:

www.fiveyearclear.com

www.woodenboat.com



nuttallj@msn.com

[Mike Q.]

Oh yes, Cetol has that orangy look, even the new Cetol-lite product.But,(and this is a big but) you can touch up cetol with a small foam brush and you'll never see the difference. With smith's
you will be involved in re epoxying and reapplying the moisture cure poly overlay after sanding and checking the hydrometer and thermometer. Of course, if you are like me, you never touch a piling or dock or step on the teak.(in my dreams)
Remember, when did you read a crusing story last in Wouldn't float magazine?? I'd rather be anal about my mechanical equipment and put up with a little orangyness.
Mike Q.



Mikieq@erols.com

[Michael Heintz]

I used Sikkens Light this spring on all topside teak. Looks great.
Now I had looked carefully before choosing this product. My Dad had owned many a beautiful wooden boat and my childhood was spent in the yard sanding and varnishing. So when it came time to choose I did so with some experience. I knew I did not have the time to keep up with traditional varnish
after talking with a few people on the dock and also on this site I choose the Sikkens LIGHT and have been vey happy with it. I did the standard three coats without sanding in between.
It looks so good in fact......the wood on the outside of the hatch
newly redone with Light
matches almost exactly the varnish on the inside of the hatch.
As for durability... well at the end of the season she still looks good. I guess we'll have to wait another year to make a true evaluation.



mzenith@aol.com