After alot of research I've settled on a cd28 or cd30 to purchase for the next boat. Besides the obvious like length, galley, cd28 option with tiller,etc what are the differences in how they sail? It seems that you can purchase a cd28 for less than a cd30. Some help would be appreciated. thanks LD Strait
ldstrait@aol.com
cd28 vs cd30
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Brian
You will get many subjective answers. Here is mine.
I have a 28 that I like a lot. My neighbor has a 27 and the difference in the interior size (the 28 is laid out better) is amazing. I have been on a 31 and the difference between 28 and 31 is also quite a bit. I have heard that the boats to own based on size and price are 25D, 28 and 31. The difference between the 28 and 30 is not that much, but the 30 will cost a lot more. (I have not seen a 30 MKII)
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Larry DeMers
Re:Price of a product in the market reflects it's value..
I would argue that the market, after all these years, reflects the concensus of the buying public regarding the value of a CD28 vs. CD30.
The CD30's price on the boat market is not set by some hidden cabal of rich salesmen, looking to fool the public..but rather by the average going price for the boat. It costs more because it is worth more.
I helped a friend find and buy his CD28 two years ago. After inspecting several CD28's, I can say that I greatly prefer the interior of our CD30. I have not sailed the 28 however, so will refrain from commenting on a comparison of performance under sail, except to say that the increased LWL will give a corresponding increase in top hull speed, albeit small.
Trying to compare the two boats is like comparing two kids in the same family, by asking the family members to do the comparing. It amounts to a lose-lose situation. You end up either insulting the other members, or getting a heap of false praise for the whole family. In the former example, the individual family member feels wronged, and in the later example, the info you get is worth little.
There is nothing glaringly wrong with the 28, other than it's size. Everything is smaller yet, than the 30...obviously ;^). But this does account for itself in speed, and handling in a seaway, where length starts to make a big difference. You carry bigger sails on the CD30, which makes it more powerful when the time comes to blast through large rollers, rather than come to a shuddering stop. Tankage is increased, as are the locker spaces available. Engine power may be the same (MD7A/B), but room to work on the engine is less, as are the places to put things like Charger/inverter, batteries, water heater, RO watermaker, ham radio, refrig. compressor etc.
This spring, I am adding refrigeration, and with it, a bank of Trojan 6v 220AH cells for the refrig. only. This addon is very heavy, and will have to go over the keel, set into a trap door I will cut into the cabin sole. There is not room to do this on the 28. So you would have to make compromises.
Lest the wrong impression get started here..if we had not bought the 30, we would have certainly looked at the 28's seriously. They are still Cape Dory's after all, and the difference is quite a matter a preference and personal fit. All boats are compromises..and there are times when I wish we had scraped the bottom of the personal finances barrel and bought a CD330, as that would have been the perfect size for us.
Rest assured that you will not regret buying a Cape Dory 28, but if you can swing it, the 30 is more boat, and offers a bit more range and capability. My one advice is to avoid boats with manufacture dates after 1986, as the folks at Cape Dory layed off their QA dept. at that time, and product built from that time forward to the closing of the shop were of questionable quality. There have been some stories out about the problems these boats seem to have that are not present in earlier boats, prior to 1986.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~
demers@sgi.com
The CD30's price on the boat market is not set by some hidden cabal of rich salesmen, looking to fool the public..but rather by the average going price for the boat. It costs more because it is worth more.
I helped a friend find and buy his CD28 two years ago. After inspecting several CD28's, I can say that I greatly prefer the interior of our CD30. I have not sailed the 28 however, so will refrain from commenting on a comparison of performance under sail, except to say that the increased LWL will give a corresponding increase in top hull speed, albeit small.
Trying to compare the two boats is like comparing two kids in the same family, by asking the family members to do the comparing. It amounts to a lose-lose situation. You end up either insulting the other members, or getting a heap of false praise for the whole family. In the former example, the individual family member feels wronged, and in the later example, the info you get is worth little.
There is nothing glaringly wrong with the 28, other than it's size. Everything is smaller yet, than the 30...obviously ;^). But this does account for itself in speed, and handling in a seaway, where length starts to make a big difference. You carry bigger sails on the CD30, which makes it more powerful when the time comes to blast through large rollers, rather than come to a shuddering stop. Tankage is increased, as are the locker spaces available. Engine power may be the same (MD7A/B), but room to work on the engine is less, as are the places to put things like Charger/inverter, batteries, water heater, RO watermaker, ham radio, refrig. compressor etc.
This spring, I am adding refrigeration, and with it, a bank of Trojan 6v 220AH cells for the refrig. only. This addon is very heavy, and will have to go over the keel, set into a trap door I will cut into the cabin sole. There is not room to do this on the 28. So you would have to make compromises.
Lest the wrong impression get started here..if we had not bought the 30, we would have certainly looked at the 28's seriously. They are still Cape Dory's after all, and the difference is quite a matter a preference and personal fit. All boats are compromises..and there are times when I wish we had scraped the bottom of the personal finances barrel and bought a CD330, as that would have been the perfect size for us.
Rest assured that you will not regret buying a Cape Dory 28, but if you can swing it, the 30 is more boat, and offers a bit more range and capability. My one advice is to avoid boats with manufacture dates after 1986, as the folks at Cape Dory layed off their QA dept. at that time, and product built from that time forward to the closing of the shop were of questionable quality. There have been some stories out about the problems these boats seem to have that are not present in earlier boats, prior to 1986.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~
Brian wrote: I have a 28 that I like a lot. My neighbor has a 27 and the difference in the interior size (the 28 is laid out better) is amazing. I have been on a 31 and the difference between 28 and 31 is also quite a bit. I have heard that the boats to own based on size and price are 25D, 28 and 31. The difference between the 28 and 30 is not that much, but the 30 will cost a lot more. (I have not seen a 30 MKII)
demers@sgi.com
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Ken Cave
You get what you pay for!!
I purchased my 28 last February after extensive searching on the internet as there are few Cape Dory's on the market in the Northwest-and believe me, if they are inexpensive, there is a reason for this! The first one I looked at (and after a survey-bailed) even had the sails torn up due to wasps living in the rolled up sails for years!
Mine came with two sets of six volt Trojan batteries as well as the frig, radar, a fifth battery for the engine, new sails, canvas, Maxwell with 300 feet of chain, etc. etc. etc. Cost? You bet-it was expensive-more than some of the 30s I have seen. But to purchase all this equipment, the extensive wiring, (which, by the way, everything fits if the person installing it knows what he is doing!) the electronics, autohelm, etc. would have costs far more than purchasing a "bare bones" boat, and adding all the equipment that my boat has!
Look around-when you find one-get a survey!!
And don't forget-you usually get what you pay for!!
Ken Cave
Cape Dory 28 #227
bcave@whidbey.net
Mine came with two sets of six volt Trojan batteries as well as the frig, radar, a fifth battery for the engine, new sails, canvas, Maxwell with 300 feet of chain, etc. etc. etc. Cost? You bet-it was expensive-more than some of the 30s I have seen. But to purchase all this equipment, the extensive wiring, (which, by the way, everything fits if the person installing it knows what he is doing!) the electronics, autohelm, etc. would have costs far more than purchasing a "bare bones" boat, and adding all the equipment that my boat has!
Look around-when you find one-get a survey!!
And don't forget-you usually get what you pay for!!
Ken Cave
Cape Dory 28 #227
bcave@whidbey.net
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Joe Sankey
Re: cd28 vs cd30 - even more subjective answers
I have looked extensively at 30's, both C, B, and Mk II models, and have owned a 28. Between the 28 and the 30 C, perhaps the most important issues are: How will you use it, and where will you sail? I prefer tiller steering and a sloop rig. A 30 can have both, but typically won't. Also, if you tack a lot in your waters, the cutter rig can be more trouble.
The interior is larger in the salon area mainly. The cockpit is the same size (I've measured them). At anchor you can move a tiller; not the wheel.
The mast length is the same; the boom is somewhat longer on the 30, but essentially it is not significantly more boat (read: harder to sail or handle).
The 30 B opens up a new list of discussions, and 30 MK II is a different matter altogether. We loved the 28 and as I look around for "next" boat I'd consider both, with the nod going to condition, equipment, and location.
Good luck.
Joe
sankey@gulftel.com
The interior is larger in the salon area mainly. The cockpit is the same size (I've measured them). At anchor you can move a tiller; not the wheel.
The mast length is the same; the boom is somewhat longer on the 30, but essentially it is not significantly more boat (read: harder to sail or handle).
The 30 B opens up a new list of discussions, and 30 MK II is a different matter altogether. We loved the 28 and as I look around for "next" boat I'd consider both, with the nod going to condition, equipment, and location.
Good luck.
Joe
ld strait wrote: After alot of research I've settled on a cd28 or cd30 to purchase for the next boat. Besides the obvious like length, galley, cd28 option with tiller,etc what are the differences in how they sail? It seems that you can purchase a cd28 for less than a cd30. Some help would be appreciated. thanks LD Strait
sankey@gulftel.com
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Joe Sankey
Re: cd28 vs cd30 - clarification (I hope)
I refer to the 30 C meaning the standard interior with cutter rig. Also, note that over the years the interior and appointments of the 28 changed somewhat, with 1981 being a pivotal year, I believe. I'm not sure that's the case with the 30, other than the optional "B" layout.
J.
sankey@gulftel.com
J.
ld strait wrote: After alot of research I've settled on a cd28 or cd30 to purchase for the next boat. Besides the obvious like length, galley, cd28 option with tiller,etc what are the differences in how they sail? It seems that you can purchase a cd28 for less than a cd30. Some help would be appreciated. thanks LD Strait
sankey@gulftel.com
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Jon
Re: cd28 vs cd30 - even more subjective answers
Joe,
I'm familiar with the CD30 and the CD30B, but I've never heard of the CD30C. How does it differ from the others?
Jon
s/v Sovereign
I'm familiar with the CD30 and the CD30B, but I've never heard of the CD30C. How does it differ from the others?
Jon
s/v Sovereign
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Brian
I too helped someone buy a CD recently
I looked at 3 28s this spring when my buddy was trying to find a boat. I agree with Larry. I preferred the interior of my boat to all the ones we saw. In fact I was surprised. I did not know that the 28 had that many differences from year to year. My buddy decided on a 27 partly because it was a good value and also the guy that owned had taken great care of it. The 28s we saw didn't "show" as nice. I guess we are all pretty happy with the boats that we have purchased. That is why it is so subjective. Of course when I am asked a subjective question, it automatically makes my answer the correct one.
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Joe Sankey
Re: cd28 vs cd30 - even more subjective answers
Jon:
That's why I clarified my comments. I used 30C to identify what was the standard layout with cutter rig. I can't recall if it actually had a designation; perhaps CD calld it the "A" model when the B was offered. My error, but I did want to point out that more than one interior had been offered.
Joe
sankey@gulftel.com
That's why I clarified my comments. I used 30C to identify what was the standard layout with cutter rig. I can't recall if it actually had a designation; perhaps CD calld it the "A" model when the B was offered. My error, but I did want to point out that more than one interior had been offered.
Joe
Jon wrote: Joe,
I'm familiar with the CD30 and the CD30B, but I've never heard of the CD30C. How does it differ from the others?
Jon
s/v Sovereign
sankey@gulftel.com
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: cd28 vs cd30 - even more subjective answers
The staysail on the majority of the cutters is self-tending. So tacking is the same process for the cutter as for a sloop. The main and staysail tack themselves, you only have to bring the headsail over to the other side of the boat and sheet it in. A cutter is only more work when it comes time to hoist or lower that third sail. If you plan on sailing offshore, a cutter is a good choice since you have greater sail selection options. The wheel is easily removed from the pedestal if you want more room in the cockpit (at least it is on our CD32, just remove a nut, no tools involved)-- but you cannot remove the pedestal. Older 30s have a steering box rather than a pedestal -- don't know how easy/difficult it is to remove that wheel, but since it's not sitting in the middle of the cockpit, it shouldn't be an issue. Make a list of needs and wants and base your decision on them and the age, condition, equipment list, location and price of the boat.
Good luck with your boat search.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
Good luck with your boat search.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
Joe Sankey wrote: I have looked extensively at 30's, both C, B, and Mk II models, and have owned a 28. Between the 28 and the 30 C, perhaps the most important issues are: How will you use it, and where will you sail? I prefer tiller steering and a sloop rig. A 30 can have both, but typically won't. Also, if you tack a lot in your waters, the cutter rig can be more trouble.
The interior is larger in the salon area mainly. The cockpit is the same size (I've measured them). At anchor you can move a tiller; not the wheel.
The mast length is the same; the boom is somewhat longer on the 30, but essentially it is not significantly more boat (read: harder to sail or handle).
The 30 B opens up a new list of discussions, and 30 MK II is a different matter altogether. We loved the 28 and as I look around for "next" boat I'd consider both, with the nod going to condition, equipment, and location.
Good luck.
Joe
ld strait wrote: After alot of research I've settled on a cd28 or cd30 to purchase for the next boat. Besides the obvious like length, galley, cd28 option with tiller,etc what are the differences in how they sail? It seems that you can purchase a cd28 for less than a cd30. Some help would be appreciated. thanks LD Strait
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
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Carol Faber
Re: cd28 vs cd30 - even more subjective answers
I'm weighing in a bit late on this question, since I don't check the list very often. But I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth, in case you are still undecided and would like to hear one more opinion.
My husband and I have a 1982 CD 28 which we bought used. We have since met a fellow who showed us a brochure for a late-1970s model CD 28 and couldn't believe how different (and less nice) the layout was! Our layout is nearly identical to the CD 30 ketch we were once lucky enough to be invited to visit (always curious to see how "the other guy" lives!). In fact, after seeing that 30, we decided we were happy to keep our 28 with its lower dock fees, lower storage fees, etc., since a 30 wouldn't give us substantially more living space. But, I know there are folks out there who think the lines of the 28 look truncated, so if you're a purist about those things, you might prefer the 30. But I echo what others have said--look for quality of care by the previous owners (ours was clearly babied for 11 years before we bought her). It'll go a long way toward making you happy in the end.
Good luck.
Carol Faber
fabers@traverse.com
My husband and I have a 1982 CD 28 which we bought used. We have since met a fellow who showed us a brochure for a late-1970s model CD 28 and couldn't believe how different (and less nice) the layout was! Our layout is nearly identical to the CD 30 ketch we were once lucky enough to be invited to visit (always curious to see how "the other guy" lives!). In fact, after seeing that 30, we decided we were happy to keep our 28 with its lower dock fees, lower storage fees, etc., since a 30 wouldn't give us substantially more living space. But, I know there are folks out there who think the lines of the 28 look truncated, so if you're a purist about those things, you might prefer the 30. But I echo what others have said--look for quality of care by the previous owners (ours was clearly babied for 11 years before we bought her). It'll go a long way toward making you happy in the end.
Good luck.
Carol Faber
Joe Sankey wrote:ld strait wrote: After alot of research I've settled on a cd28 or cd30 to purchase for the next boat. Besides the obvious like length, galley, cd28 option with tiller,etc what are the differences in how they sail? It seems that you can purchase a cd28 for less than a cd30. Some help would be appreciated. thanks LD Strait
fabers@traverse.com
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bob lund
Re: cd28 vs cd30
I owned a CD30 (1976 model) for three years while living in Purto Rico. It was a great boat and even survived a direct hit from hurricane hugo, no damage even though it was observed to be airborn at one point. I now have a CD28 (1977 model) and sail in the Gulf of Mexaco. The 30 has a better interior; especially the galley. The 28 galley is poorly designed, guess that's where the extra two feet were removed. Both boats feel the same under sail. I expected the thousand pound displacement difference to be more noticable but they are both well behaved, even in rough water. I always felt comfortable in the 30 even ocean sailing in rough conditions, had complete confidence in the boat.
rml4707@aol.com
rml4707@aol.com