Cockpit drains

[Jim Stull]

I am upgrading a '75 CD25
I plan to replace the old seacocks with new ball valves and also change out the hoses and clamps. I would appreciate any thoughts other owners might have concerning the advisability of enlarging the size of the cockpit drains at this time.
Thanks
Jim



jtstull@b4futures.net

[Doug McMullin]

HI,

I bought a CD25 last spring and did quite a bit of up grading before
dropping her in the water. I considered altering the cockpit drains,
but ran out of time and ideas. I sail in Maine... Mostly in bays so the sea conditions dont often exceed 6 feet. I did how ever sail my boat on several days in real honest to goodness 8+ foot choppy white caps. These conditions though a bit much for my little boat, did not beat me up too badly, nor did they create any drainage problems.
An interesting event occured several days ago as I was bringing my boat to the Harbor where I haul and store. I got POOPED! Not kind of
pooped, but really POOPED!!!!. Water up to the cockpit combing! This
event caused by a significant error in my judgement ended up working out ok. (I had all the wash boards in... Good thinking) I got the boat pointing again and making some headway and the drains did ok. Granted the boat was sluggish for a moment or two. Once again... I was out in conditions that were with out a doubt risky for a boat this size, and a single instant of control loss let a large (7ft + or -) breaking wave land on me.

So with that event behind me I am leaving my drains alone. A boat this
size shoud really avoid cockpit filling conditions anyway.

Hey has anyone else ever gotten POOPED in a 25?

Doug McMullin
PO box 151
Bass Harbor Me. 04653



ninab@post.acadia.net

[kevin aubuchon]

I got POOPED! Not kind of
pooped, but really POOPED!!!!. Water up to the cockpit combing!
Doug McMullin
PO box 151
Bass Harbor Me. 04653

Hi Doug,

Next summer I am planning to take my CD25 around Lake Michigan for a month and would be interested in how your CD sailed in 6-8 foot seas. 8 ft on Michigan is not common, but does happen. 6 foot seas are definitely common during a storm or high wind condition.

How does the boat point?
Is it possible to make any upwind progress?
What size jib did you carry? 135, 110?
Could you tack in those seas?
Was your outboard powerful enough to help? Or just use your sails?

Some people on this site commented of water coming up through the engine well when running downwind with big waves. Did this happend to you?

I would be interested in any insights on handling the CD25 you've learned. Thanks in advance.

kevin aubuchon



abuchoko@maritz.com

[Steve Alarcon]

Doug,

Would you care to elaborate on how your boat came to be "pooped"? It could be very helpful for the rest of us to know what to avoid.

Thanks!

Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle



alarcon@internetmci.com

[Doug McMullin]

Hi. I sail in Maine, and mostly in very protected bays. The bay near my moring only gets nasty when Its strong northwest and even worst when the the tide is flood or against it. 8 foot seas are only common in really bad winter blows, as there is little or no ocean swell influence. When I got pooped I had just poked my nose out into
the full breeze and sea and realized how ugly it was. The boat sailed reasonably well with a single reef and a working Jib. I decided after a very short time that I was best to head back in till things improved. It was while tacking that I had the problem. The boat did head up and come through the wind, but I was dead in the water as she
fell off and soon had a quartering seas and no speed. POOP. The boat recovered much quicker that I would have expected. I was able to
get some speed, drain the water and sail to protection. I did not head back out till it had droped to 6' + ot -. Im sure if you really had to a 25 could make some progress to windward (not much) in those sea conditions, then again I had the tide so who knows. I have sailed
a bunch in 4-6' conditions and have made out very well. Again with a single reef and a working jib. When it has been at its worst I almost always run the engine. Not so much as the boat needs help, but Im scared of taking a wave poorly and losing headway. So the extra speed from the engine acts as insurance and gets me out of the rough sooner.
In all of my experiments or experiences I have been fairly close to some protection. Rarely more than 2 or 3 miles, and usually much closer. Low commitment.

Oh 9.9 mariner. High thrust prop... Thus far has served me well.
I have not had any big water in the engine well problems. I also avoid big following waves.

I do wish I had a bigger boat. I keep reading about capsize statistics and realize beam to a 6-8' breaking wave could possibly knock it down. Yikes!

Hope that was of some use.
Doug




ninab@post.acadia.net

[Jim Stull]

Hi. I sail in Maine, and mostly in very protected bays. The bay near my moring only gets nasty when Its strong northwest and even worst when the the tide is flood or against it. 8 foot seas are only common in really bad winter blows, as there is little or no ocean swell influence. When I got pooped I had just poked my nose out into
the full breeze and sea and realized how ugly it was. The boat sailed reasonably well with a single reef and a working Jib. I decided after a very short time that I was best to head back in till things improved. It was while tacking that I had the problem. The boat did head up and come through the wind, but I was dead in the water as she
fell off and soon had a quartering seas and no speed. POOP. The boat recovered much quicker that I would have expected. I was able to
get some speed, drain the water and sail to protection. I did not head back out till it had droped to 6' + ot -. Im sure if you really had to a 25 could make some progress to windward (not much) in those sea conditions, then again I had the tide so who knows. I have sailed
a bunch in 4-6' conditions and have made out very well. Again with a single reef and a working jib. When it has been at its worst I almost always run the engine. Not so much as the boat needs help, but Im scared of taking a wave poorly and losing headway. So the extra speed from the engine acts as insurance and gets me out of the rough sooner.
In all of my experiments or experiences I have been fairly close to some protection. Rarely more than 2 or 3 miles, and usually much closer. Low commitment.

Oh 9.9 mariner. High thrust prop... Thus far has served me well.
I have not had any big water in the engine well problems. I also avoid big following waves.

I do wish I had a bigger boat. I keep reading about capsize statistics and realize beam to a 6-8' breaking wave could possibly knock it down. Yikes!

Hope that was of some use.
Doug

Doug
A small comment about capsize.
This past summer we decided to move up from our little Compac16. We did a great deal of reading and looking for the "right" boat.
We wanted the largest boat which would be reasonably trailerable. This limited the length to about 25'.
One of the more readable books we found on yacht design was the one edited by John Rousmaire (spelling?). He provides three formulas somewhat based on what was learned from the 197? Fastnet race disaster.
These equations predict a boats:
1. Capsize avoidance
2. Integrity
3. Sailing Power
(these are my descriptions not Rousmaire's but should be close)
After I ran the numbers , I found the CD25 fit my needs very closely.
Rousmaire's limiting value for capsize avoidance was given, as I recall, as about 2. (The lower the value the better.) Assuming my math was correct, the CD25 design calculated out at about 1.8. This was quite good as compaired with many cantidates.
Some boats meet Rousmaire's criteria for capsize but were very slow or lightly built. The CD25 met all 3 of his limits. (Plus I found one on a custom built trailer.)
Jim




jtstull@icubed.com