Sail trim - CD26

[Rich]

Sailing in light to moderate winds yesterday with full main and genoa. Genoa sheets led outside standing rigging, thru jib cars, cars all the way back. Trying to point fairly high, so sheeted in genoa as far as possible which brings clew inside of life line. Pain in the a__ getting the last couple of turns on the winch as the clew hangs on the life line. What am I doing wrong here?



rpassmore42@hotmail.com

[Dana]

Sailing in light to moderate winds yesterday with full main and genoa. Genoa sheets led outside standing rigging, thru jib cars, cars all the way back. Trying to point fairly high, so sheeted in genoa as far as possible which brings clew inside of life line. Pain in the a__ getting the last couple of turns on the winch as the clew hangs on the life line. What am I doing wrong here?

_______________

Bear with me on this...the boat should really like to go to windward under light to moderate conditions. You have the genoa cars as far back as possible? Doesn't that give you too tight of a foot for the genoa vs the leech? Could you describe it? 130% etc. Going to windward with the 26 should be one of your best sailing points...

I have a Hood 130% genoa sheeted about 2/3 back with sheets running outside shrouds. This is a reefable cruising furling sail. On this sail this takes the sheeting angle into the sail so that intersects the mid-luff point in the sail..a check of perfoming a couple of tacts back and forth tells me that my sail for this sheeting angle is "breaking" evenly as I tack. I.E. the foot and leech of the sail is luffing at the time time along its full length as you make the tack. If the leech is luffing first, move the car forward, if the foot..move back. If you have the orginal Horizon Spectra 2000 mainsail (I do)...you may want to take in the light wind foot shelf sail material up to the first set of grommets. This will give you a flatter sail for windward. I would also use the boom vang (if you're equipped with it) to get the second batten down from the top so it is parallel to the boom.



darenius@aol.com

[Rich]

Sailing in light to moderate winds yesterday with full main and genoa. Genoa sheets led outside standing rigging, thru jib cars, cars all the way back. Trying to point fairly high, so sheeted in genoa as far as possible which brings clew inside of life line. Pain in the a__ getting the last couple of turns on the winch as the clew hangs on the life line. What am I doing wrong here?

_______________

Bear with me on this...the boat should really like to go to windward under light to moderate conditions. You have the genoa cars as far back as possible? Doesn't that give you too tight of a foot for the genoa vs the leech? Could you describe it? 130% etc. Going to windward with the 26 should be one of your best sailing points...

I have a Hood 130% genoa sheeted about 2/3 back with sheets running outside shrouds. This is a reefable cruising furling sail. On this sail this takes the sheeting angle into the sail so that intersects the mid-luff point in the sail..a check of perfoming a couple of tacts back and forth tells me that my sail for this sheeting angle is "breaking" evenly as I tack. I.E. the foot and leech of the sail is luffing at the time time along its full length as you make the tack. If the leech is luffing first, move the car forward, if the foot..move back. If you have the orginal Horizon Spectra 2000 mainsail (I do)...you may want to take in the light wind foot shelf sail material up to the first set of grommets. This will give you a flatter sail for windward. I would also use the boom vang (if you're equipped with it) to get the second batten down from the top so it is parallel to the boom.

________________

Headsail is a 155 (I believe). Going to windward, headsail luffing early (I'm not pointing as high as other boats on same tack) so I sheet in and boat does respond by pointing higher without luffing. I haven't studied the sheeting angle - thanks for the tip. My concern was that to get the sail sheeted in to where I thought it should be, the clew was hanging up on the lifeline and that didn't seem right.
Should the cars be moved ahead slightly?

Regarding the main, I've got the same sail as you. I'll try playing with it as you recommended. I do love this boat, it felt well balanced with the sail plan I had and very little weather helm as we were beating, really a pleasure to sail.




rpassmore42@hotmail.com

[Dana]

The 155 is (in my opinion) quite a large foresail for the boat. That will move your track block back a bit, depending on the length of the designed luff of the sail. My working jib is only partial length of the forestay. The 130 genoa is full length thus it does not have to compensate much up to the 130 number because much of the sail area increase is not along the foot as much as the top. After the top is gone the sheeting angle is more affected because the foot grows more for the same increase of sail area. You may even try the working jib, if you have it, for a comparison. Also I have found that the boom on center for the Spectra 2000 on close wind gives the best performance. It is a little tough with the "Y" mainsheet arrangement to get enough mechanical effort to center completely...but try it by hand power for the final positioning for a short bit to see what I mean...

As a comparison I offer the following....with 130 genoa and full working main with boom vang....3-3.5 knots with 7-10 knots of wind with 40-45 degrees of true wind. at 12-15 knots you are flying and ou will feel you can point up more..almost going into the apparent wind...

Sailing in light to moderate winds yesterday with full main and genoa. Genoa sheets led outside standing rigging, thru jib cars, cars all the way back. Trying to point fairly high, so sheeted in genoa as far as possible which brings clew inside of life line. Pain in the a__ getting the last couple of turns on the winch as the clew hangs on the life line. What am I doing wrong here?

_______________

Bear with me on this...the boat should really like to go to windward under light to moderate conditions. You have the genoa cars as far back as possible? Doesn't that give you too tight of a foot for the genoa vs the leech? Could you describe it? 130% etc. Going to windward with the 26 should be one of your best sailing points...

I have a Hood 130% genoa sheeted about 2/3 back with sheets running outside shrouds. This is a reefable cruising furling sail. On this sail this takes the sheeting angle into the sail so that intersects the mid-luff point in the sail..a check of perfoming a couple of tacts back and forth tells me that my sail for this sheeting angle is "breaking" evenly as I tack. I.E. the foot and leech of the sail is luffing at the time time along its full length as you make the tack. If the leech is luffing first, move the car forward, if the foot..move back. If you have the orginal Horizon Spectra 2000 mainsail (I do)...you may want to take in the light wind foot shelf sail material up to the first set of grommets. This will give you a flatter sail for windward. I would also use the boom vang (if you're equipped with it) to get the second batten down from the top so it is parallel to the boom.

________________

Headsail is a 155 (I believe). Going to windward, headsail luffing early (I'm not pointing as high as other boats on same tack) so I sheet in and boat does respond by pointing higher without luffing. I haven't studied the sheeting angle - thanks for the tip. My concern was that to get the sail sheeted in to where I thought it should be, the clew was hanging up on the lifeline and that didn't seem right.
Should the cars be moved ahead slightly?

Regarding the main, I've got the same sail as you. I'll try playing with it as you recommended. I do love this boat, it felt well balanced with the sail plan I had and very little weather helm as we were beating, really a pleasure to sail.

darenius@aol.com

[SteveZ]

I often use a North 150% Genoa on my 25D. Rather than having the genoa car all the way back(on the aft, gunwhale-mounted track), the sail should be designed so that, under typical wind conditions (that you use the sail), the genoa car is near the center of the track. Normally, this means that if you drew an imaginary line from the center of the luff through the clew, the end of the line would point to the center of the track. Then, the car position can be adjusted forward to power-up or aft to depower to fine-tune the sail. Incidently, I've found that using the 150 with a reefed main is sometimes an advantageous sail combination to balance the helm while reaching in moderate conditions.

[Dana]

I agree with everything except I think it is where your block should be...not necessarily the center of the track position. Each type and size of sail is a little different...will not always end up being in the same spot....otherwise you are always describing the same clew position in most cases..
_____

I often use a North 150% Genoa on my 25D. Rather than having the genoa car all the way back(on the aft, gunwhale-mounted track), the sail should be designed so that, under typical wind conditions (that you use the sail), the genoa car is near the center of the track. Normally, this means that if you drew an imaginary line from the center of the luff through the clew, the end of the line would point to the center of the track. Then, the car position can be adjusted forward to power-up or aft to depower to fine-tune the sail. Incidently, I've found that using the 150 with a reefed main is sometimes an advantageous sail combination to balance the helm while reaching in moderate conditions.

darenius@aol.com

[SteveZ]

Dana,
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that sails do vary some depending on design philosophy and sail designers obviously have some latitude with clew placement(e.g., more race oriented=deck sweeper). Nonetheless, sails can and should be designed to take advantage of the positon and length of the track. While the position of the car may not be dead center on the track, needing the car all the way to the back of the track to get a decent sail shape eliminates the possibility of depowering the sail via the car position. Modestly different sails (e.g., 150 vs 135) can easily use the same track because sheeting angles would be similar; the clews would be more or less along the same line from the car to the center of the luff(not nessarily at the exact same position). A separate inboard track is used for smaller headsails (like a jib) because, as you indicated, the car will have to moved substantially forward compared to a larger genoa and, due to the smaller size, they can be sheeted inboard of the shrouds for upwind work.

Steve

I agree with everything except I think it is where your block should be...not necessarily the center of the track position. Each type and size of sail is a little different...will not always end up being in the same spot....otherwise you are always describing the same clew position in most cases..
_____

I often use a North 150% Genoa on my 25D. Rather than having the genoa car all the way back(on the aft, gunwhale-mounted track), the sail should be designed so that, under typical wind conditions (that you use the sail), the genoa car is near the center of the track. Normally, this means that if you drew an imaginary line from the center of the luff through the clew, the end of the line would point to the center of the track. Then, the car position can be adjusted forward to power-up or aft to depower to fine-tune the sail. Incidently, I've found that using the 150 with a reefed main is sometimes an advantageous sail combination to balance the helm while reaching in moderate conditions.

[Rich]

Well duh... Thanks for the help. Using the outboard tracks would certainly solve my sheeting problems (as the designer no doubt intended). A quick read through Sail Power last night confirmed my embarassment. And here I thought those outboard cars were just for stepping on as I boarded...



rpassmore42@hotmail.com