Getting New 25D Ready

[fritz3000g]

As mentioned in another thread, I purchased a 25D last week and will be fixing some things in preparation for sailing this season.

I was thinking of starting a single thread for questions that come up, but if a thread for each issue is preferable I can do that.

The boat is over 3 hours from my house in an unheated barn (Wisconsin), and I have a busy schedule and a 7 year old. For these reasons, I'd like to do whatever maintenance I can from home and am trying to figure out how to minimize time spent at the boat but not sailing, while keeping cost in mind. Any suggestions along these lines would be greatly appreciated.

Some initial questions:

• I'm wondering if it's practical to remove the sheet and halyard winches and bring them home for service, or is it really just a lot easier to service them in place? Can they be serviced below freezing?
• The trailer needs a winch for ramp-launching. I've figured out most of the details (been ramp-launching sailboats for years) but one remains. Based on my experience, the winch will pull the boat to the bow stop first, and will touch the bow stop at the red waterline mark on the bow (see image 1) rather than a foot below that where it should be. When driving out of the water with the bow touching the bow stop at the waterline mark, the boat will tilt back to rest on the keel, which will tilt the bow away from the bow stop. This will cause the boat to sit a few inches back of the bow stop, risking it sliding forwards in a fast brake as well as putting the trailer off-balance to the rear. To remedy this I think that the keel and the bow need to touch the trailer at the same time. I think this means I need to winch the bow upwards out of the water about a foot, which I think means that the winch needs to be at least two feet above the attachment point. Any other solutions for this problem, or any reason to think this won't be an issue?
• Does anyone have suggestions for installing an attachment point (see example, picture 2) on the bow for the trailer winch hook? Currently there isn't one. If I do what I describe above, there will be a lot (500+ lbs) of upward force on this attachment point, which will put a lot of upward shear force on the bow at this point. It'll be above the waterline so slightly less critical that it never leaks. But obviously I'd like for it not to.

[John Stone]

Your boat is on a trailer. My advice is bring the boat home where you can work on it at your convenience. You will save a fortune in time and gas.

Next to getting it home is getting it under cover. An RV storage shed or under any roof you can arrange.

If you cannot get it into your yard get it as close as you can. These two thing--close to home and under cover--are the most important things you can do to ensure your time and money are spent actually working on the boat vice overcoming obstacles to get to the boat.

[fritz3000g]

Your boat is on a trailer. My advice is bring the boat home where you can work on it at your convenience.

That sounds lovely, but I can't this year. I could list the reasons, such as the lack of a trustworthy tow vehicle and no idea where to store it, but there's no way this year. Maybe next year.

Fortunately it's in decent shape, and I think I can do what needs doing in two trips if I plan carefully and do the thinking before I leave. Just want to minimize the length ao those trips for the sake of my marriage

[Chrisa006]

Please rent a tow vehicle and spend one of the round trip time time amounts finding something close. My boat was 11/2 hrs. away and it stunk. I wouldn't drive 3 hrs. to do an hours work. It made each trip a full day which is a large commitment.

[fritz3000g]

Ok. Here are my reasons for thinking I shouldn't tow it home this winter:

• It's stored in the back of a barn behind RVs and other boats and pulling it out early is probably several hundred dollars.
• it's stored in a desirable sailing area where we'd like to explore this summer. I could sail the CD on a lake near my house, but it's super overkill for our conditions, hard to launch, would require me to raise the mast myself, is more expensive, and I have other options for sailing here.
• It's 8 minutes from a marina where I'd like to keep the boat this summer for many reasons (certified Yanmar mechanic who I owe a favor, affordable, ideal summer storage and launch setup, 1 block from many other services like trailer welding, hardware store, West Marine, etc...)
• I don't have a good place to keep it near my house, and would like to avoid filling the cockpit with snow
• I'm not sure how the trailer will behave towing and would like to test in small doses before committing to a highway trip.
• While I do have access to a truck a neighbor will let me use, it's old and rusty, and I'd prefer to carefully inspect the frame and try it out in summertime. Renting trucks around here for towing requires a long lead time (months) last I checked.
• I want some engine services and need a welder to modify the trailer, and I have good contacts for both near the current storage. I'll have to go up to deliver the boat to the welder and marina for both of these. I can't be sure I can schedule those up on consecutive days given how everyone everywhere is short-staffed.
• I can get there for 2-3 days at a time if I plan a month ahead, which I'm planning for.
• Most of my prep has to be done with the mast up, or in the water. I won't be ready to raise the mast myself this spring and would prefer to pay the crane fee just once.

In future years the calculation is likely to be different.

Any chance we could consider its current location a fixed constraint for now?

[tjr818]

Oops!

[tjr818]

All valid reasons, but . . . you can't imagine how nice it is to be able to step into your own back yard and do an hours work when ever you have the time, while the BBQ heats up, while the kids are taking a bath, while the paint dries, whenever.
I assume that you have seen this link: http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=38361

[Tom Keevil]

Nobody seems to be answering your questions. We live in the mountains of Southern Oregon, and, until we moved to British Columbia, the closest our boat had ever been was a 3 hour drive (though the drive was exceptionally scenic). Certainly not ideal, but it’s doable. The key thing is to be highly organized. That means having all the tools and parts you need before leaving home. Of course that is actually impossible, as old boats have unexpected problems. If you’re working on a weekend, that can be problematic if the chandlery is closed on Sunday, for example. Also recognize that most jobs will take two to three times longer than you expect. When scheduling your trips, maybe schedule more trips than you think you will need. That will remove some of the pressure, and if you don’t need to go, everyone will be pleasantly surprised.

Cleaning winches is not a hard or time consuming job, but I would expect that removing them could be a bear. Corroded fastenings are a real possibility, though that may be less of an issue on a fresh water boat. Wait until Spring and do that in place on the boat.

My trailer experience is with our 14-foot daysailer, so can’t offer much advice there. But if the previous owner was able to launch and retrieve the boat with the current setup, it seems like that should work for you as well. Maybe wait a season to see if it works, and what modifications would make it better?

[Jerry Hammernik]

fritz3000g

If you decide you want to bring it closer to home send me a PM. Depending on where you are I could perhaps help with a tow. I have a one ton diesel pickup that wouldn't break a sweat hauling a 25D. The biggest issue you'd face is the condition of the trailer. Are the bearings good, tires good? Does the trailer have brakes?

Jumping back to your original questions, winches can be serviced in winter. It's a relatively simple job.

[John Stone]

I gutted and rebuilt my boat from a bare hull. Took six years of work and about 6000 hours. It was in a shed in my back yard. My commute was about 75' round trip.

After sailing the boat nearly 10,000 offshore miles without an inboard engine I decided to install an engine from scratch. Did it in a boatyard a hour away from home. Took 22 months. Pretty much 5 days a week. I have an old but reliable suburban. Had it filled for that entire times with ever tool you can imagine--wrenches, drills, sanders, jig saw, power cords, work table, circle saw, clamps, wire, taps, dies, fiberglass epoxy, biaxial, peel ply, breaker bars, a vise, glued, wood plug cutters, files, jack, smoothing, block and bullnose planes, my rigging kit, pieces of teak and mahogany, doorskin ply, hot glue gun, heat lamps, fans, plastic sheeting, hose, hose clamps, more wrenches, sockets, three torque wrenches etc etc. Every time I left home I heard the Sandford and Son theme song playing in my head.

I know my boat inside and out. There is not a spot I have not been intimate with. I planned every task out. I made lists. I visualized every project from start to finish. And I can't count the times I somehow did not have the one tool or thing I needed that was at home on the shelf or in my tool chest. I hated it. Vowed I would never work in the boatyard like that again if there was anyway to avoid it. And I was lucky. The boatyard owner gave me a key to his shop. But it wasn't enough. If I had the boat at home I could have done it in 1/3 the times.

In my fantasy world I have a custom trailer for my Cape Dory 36 with a dedicated diesel truck and a complete shed at home to park it in.

So sure you can do any project in a boatyard or in a farmers barn three hours away. But I wouldn't. Maybe you just need to do a few small things. OK. Maybe there are a thousand reasons why it's too hard or inconvenient to bring your boat home. But you went to a lot of trouble to get a boat on a trailer. I would do everything in my power to get that boat within feet of my garage.

[fritz3000g]

All valid reasons, but . . . you can't imagine how nice it is to be able to step into your own back yard and do an hours work when ever you have the time, while the BBQ heats up, while the kids are taking a bath, while the paint dries, whenever.

I do, actually. I currently have a MacGregor 25 next to my house, and I did a lot of work on it over the years there. It is super nice, especially when I have my shop 50' away. So... yeah, I know what I'll be missing.

I assume that you have seen this link: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=38361

Wow! No, actually I haven't. I really like several things about the trailer shown in this post:

• The bow stop is above the waterine, so I could mark a spot on the bow where the bow stop should connect and back the trailer down the ramp till it's deep enough to contact that spot. Then the bow stop itself can lift the bow as I drive the boat out of the water rather than the winch having to carry that load.
• The winch is above the deck level, so you don't have to add an attachment point but just use the existing cleats with some kind of equalizing tether. And it can do double duty for mast raising.
• The bow stop appears to be retractable, in case you'd like to adjust the position of the boat forwards or backwards.
• The wood braces around the keel ensure that it lines up before you drive away.

Thank you tjr818! This is great! I'll use these images to help me craft the design I give to the welder.

The key thing is to be highly organized. That means having all the tools and parts you need before leaving home. Of course that is actually impossible, as old boats have unexpected problems. If you’re working on a weekend, that can be problematic if the chandlery is closed on Sunday, for example. Also recognize that most jobs will take two to three times longer than you expect. When scheduling your trips, maybe schedule more trips than you think you will need. That will remove some of the pressure, and if you don’t need to go, everyone will be pleasantly surprised.

This makes a lot of sense. I'll try to plan my trips for days West Marine, Ace Hardware, and the marina parts dept are open. And I'll suggest to my family that I'll need to take three trips rather than two. The bit about things taking three times as long is well said, and I need to keep reminding myself to estimate with that assumption in mind.

Cleaning winches is not a hard or time consuming job, but I would expect that removing them could be a bear. Corroded fastenings are a real possibility, though that may be less of an issue on a fresh water boat. Wait until Spring and do that in place on the boat.

Good to know. I'll plan to watch some videos and do it in person, using the hole-in-the-cardboard-box trick so I don't lose anything.

If you decide you want to bring it closer to home send me a PM. Depending on where you are I could perhaps help with a tow.

Thanks Jerry will do!

I don't know the condition of the bearings. Tires look great. I should know more once I pull it out of the shed.

[fritz3000g]

After sailing the boat nearly 10,000 offshore miles without an inboard engine I decided to install an engine from scratch. Did it in a boatyard a hour away from home. Took 22 months... I know my boat inside and out. There is not a spot I have not been intimate with. I planned every task out. I made lists. I visualized every project from start to finish. And I can't count the times I somehow did not have the one tool or thing I needed that was at home on the shelf or in my tool chest. I hated it. Vowed I would never work in the boatyard like that again if there was anyway to avoid it. And I was lucky. The boatyard owner gave me a key to his shop. But it wasn't enough. If I had the boat at home I could have done it in 1/3 the times.

So sure you can do any project in a boatyard or in a farmers barn three hours away. But I wouldn't. Maybe you just need to do a few small things. OK. Maybe there are a thousand reasons why it's too hard or inconvenient to bring your boat home. But you went to a lot of trouble to get a boat on a trailer. I would do everything in my power to get that boat within feet of my garage.

Wow that sounds like quite the experience! I'm totally with you--I don't think that anything would make me willing to take on a big project like a custom engine install remotely (though doing it nearby sounds fascinating).

I think that your comment about "Maybe you just need to do a few small things" is the key here. The boat is sailable as she sits now, and I intend to wait till future years to do 90+% of the work I'd like to do on her when

• I've gotten comfortable enough to drive her three hours and/or
• I no longer need to work a full time job .

That's quite a list of tools you included. Any tools that it's always a good idea to bring along when going on an extended trip to visit the boat, even if you don't think you'll be using them?

[John Stone]

After sailing the boat nearly 10,000 offshore miles without an inboard engine I decided to install an engine from scratch. Did it in a boatyard a hour away from home. Took 22 months... I know my boat inside and out. There is not a spot I have not been intimate with. I planned every task out. I made lists. I visualized every project from start to finish. And I can't count the times I somehow did not have the one tool or thing I needed that was at home on the shelf or in my tool chest. I hated it. Vowed I would never work in the boatyard like that again if there was anyway to avoid it. And I was lucky. The boatyard owner gave me a key to his shop. But it wasn't enough. If I had the boat at home I could have done it in 1/3 the times.

So sure you can do any project in a boatyard or in a farmers barn three hours away. But I wouldn't. Maybe you just need to do a few small things. OK. Maybe there are a thousand reasons why it's too hard or inconvenient to bring your boat home. But you went to a lot of trouble to get a boat on a trailer. I would do everything in my power to get that boat within feet of my garage.

Wow that sounds like quite the experience! I'm totally with you--I don't think that anything would make me willing to take on a big project like a custom engine install remotely (though doing it nearby sounds fascinating).

I think that your comment about "Maybe you just need to do a few small things" is the key here. The boat is sailable as she sits now, and I intend to wait till future years to do 90+% of the work I'd like to do on her when

• I've gotten comfortable enough to drive her three hours and/or
• I no longer need to work a full time job .

That's quite a list of tools you included. Any tools that it's always a good idea to bring along when going on an extended trip to visit the boat, even if you don't think you'll be using them?

The tools that are always a good idea to bring are the ones you didn't know you needed.

[ghockaday]

It probably does not have a winch because it was set in the water by the marina. May be different up your way but down on the lower Chesapeake Bay you will be very hard pressed to find a ramp that you can float it off of the trailer without backing the toe vehicle til it (tow vehicle) floats. You will need a substantial tow vehicle. Some folks will tell you different, but stopping the load is the bear. You are smart knowing that you can't tow it with what you have or can borrow. Dee

[fritz3000g]

It probably does not have a winch because it was set in the water by the marina. May be different up your way but down on the lower Chesapeake Bay you will be very hard pressed to find a ramp that you can float it off of the trailer without backing the toe vehicle till it (tow vehicle) floats. You will need a substantial tow vehicle. Some folks will tell you different, but stopping the load is the bear. You are smart knowing that you can't tow it with what you have or can borrow.

Makes sense about the winch.

That's been my experience too about the tow vehicle. Brakes are the primary concern (most states require trailer brakes in addition) followed by the transmission.

I'm aware of the ramp issue, and once I'm ready to start exploring I'll plan to build a very long tongue extension. For the next couple years I'll only launch at steep marina ramps which are >20 degrees, compared to 12-15 for public ramps.

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One additional question: I see this seacock for the head discharge, downstream of the Y fitting mounted under the galley. It's different than the other seacocks, with a lever-looking thing on the right (which won't turn, though it may be stuck) and a twist adjustment on the left (which turns easily).

Any ideas how this works? I'd like to close it so I can remove the discharge hose (useless in great lakes) and reclaim some galley storage space.



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Also, do I need a set of winch spares or just some grease and oil to service my deck winches?