Differences between CD 27, 28, and 30?

[TJH]

Hello All,

I'm on the hunt for my first Cape Dory (I've owned and refurbished some smaller sailboats in the past--Hobie 16, Dyer Dink, etc.--but this will be my first "real" sailboat). I've looked at a CD28 and I'll be looking at a CD27 soon, but I was hoping to take advantage of the collective wisdom of the group and ask the following: Aside from the obvious, length and diesel engine, what do folks see as the pros and cons of the different models between 27 and 30 feet? I'm probably not interested in going larger or smaller than that. Not trying to start a war here, just want to better understand the breed, as it were.

Thanks in advance.

(And if anyone has a line on a nice CD in this range that's for sale, please let me know. It's fast and furious out here these days--a boat in my area came up on Craigslist Saturday night, I emailed Sunday afternoon, and by Sunday night it had been sold. I'm in the Midwest but will travel a ways for the right CD!)

TJH

[tjr818]

TJ,
So many questions:
Where in the Midwest?
Where will you be sailing?
Will you be sailing alone, or with others? How many others?
Daysailing or cruising?
Doing your own work or paying a shop?

We had a 27 and it is a wonderful boat, no doubt the prettiest of the bunch, however three was a crowd in the cockpit. I could single hand it myself. We sail on the Mississippi River, lots of fetch but no real swells.

When we bought the 27 I looked at a 28 that was in the same yard for the same price. The 28 seemed so much bigger that we were afraid of it, later I wished we had bought the 28. A few years latter we had the chance to buy a 31 - I really wish that we had bought that one.

[TJH]

TJ,
So many questions:
Where in the Midwest?
Where will you be sailing?
Will you be sailing alone, or with others? How many others?
Daysailing or cruising?
Doing your own work or paying a shop?

We had a 27 and it is a wonderful boat, no doubt the prettiest of the bunch, however three was a crowd in the cockpit. I could single hand it myself. We sail on the Mississippi River, lots of fetch but no real swells.

When we bought the 27 I looked at a 28 that was in the same yard for the same price. The 28 seemed so much bigger that we were afraid of it, later I wished we had bought the 28. A few years latter we had the chance to buy a 31 - I really wish that we had bought that one.

Thanks, tjr818. I should have anticipated at least some of those questions!

I live in Indiana--the boat will be sailed on a lake that is roughly four miles long and plenty deep for a 4' draft. There will be four of us sailing at times (my wife and two girls--9 and 11), but I'm sure it will be me often singlehanding or with a buddy of mine. Primarily daysailing on the our lake, but a big motivation to move from the 18' daysailer we have now is to learn sailing and systems of a larger boat. Ultimately, we'd like to transition to some cruising on Lake Michigan and maybe the East Coast down the road. (I sail with a friend out of Greenwich and Block Island a few times a year, but I'd like to be able to confidently sail with him as opposed to just being crew, if that makes sense). Probably a mix of work myself and through a yard. I've done some basic refits of smaller boats and the like, but I don't have any experience with a diesel, electrical more complex than a bilge pump, etc. and there is always the lack of time issue.

It's really helpful to hear even what you said about wishing you would have moved up in size. I'm mindful of not having a battleship in a bathtub on our lake, but I also can imagine enjoying the larger cockpit in particular of the 28 or 30. Interesting that you're sailing on the Mississippi. I grew up in the northwest corner of Illinois, so I've been to the river many times, but rarely have I seen anyone sailing on it.

Thanks for the response!

TJH

[tjr818]

. . . but I also can imagine enjoying the larger cockpit in particular of the 28 or 30. Interesting that you're sailing on the Mississippi. I grew up in the northwest corner of Illinois, so I've been to the river many times, but rarely have I seen anyone sailing on it. TJH

The 27 has a very long tiller and that limits cockpit room. Four would be a crowd. You could banish someone to the foredeck or down below, but we never could get it to work.

The river gets more and more narrow as you move upstream. We are in pool 26 above Alton, IL where the river is over a mile wide.


Here is a photo of the first time out, a short ride, motoring with five on board.

First Ride.jpeg

[TJH]

Beautiful boat. I'm a few hours straight east of you. That pic helps a lot with thinking through cockpit space. Thanks.

[S/V Ethan Grey]

I think many, if not all of the CD30's have pedestal steering, which takes up quite a bit of cockpit room. Probably great for offshore, but I'd rather have a tiller and more space. I'll be looking to convert mine to a tiller soon. I really like the size of my CD30, it's like a mini apartment on the water. In your case, a CD28 or 30 would probably be interchangeable. The 30 will give you more of a galley feel, the 28 will give you a more accessible cockpit. There may be other differences, but those are the two that stood out for me.

[csoule13]

I've got a 27, and if part of your mission is to learn systems and what not, I don't think the boat has much to teach in that regard. You could learn a bunch by refurbishing and replacing stuff - wiring is old, that type of stuff. But it's just not a complicated boat. That's a plus for me.

If you are taller than 6', you'll find the headroom limiting. I round up to 6', and I can stand upright in some places, and I bang my forehead against the teak trim in others.

I mostly agree with the previous comment about the cockpit being a little crowded while underway with 4, though that depends on the size of your crew. Myself, my 5'8" Dad and my 5'3" cousin all know how to stay out from underfoot on a sailboat, and we managed fine.

For sailing ability, I am routinely surprised how well the 27 handles lighter winds. She isn't a J boat, but 6 kts of winds and I can have a pleasant day on the lake(Chickamauga, down here in Chattanooga).

For the 28 and 30, I had an owner of a 28 come aboard to help with an electrical issue, and he was shocked at how much smaller the 27 was. He said, basically, the 28 and 30 felt pretty similar in size, but the jump up from the 27 was readily apparent.

Were it me, I'd get the boat in the best condition for the lowest amount of money in my budget that did 80% of what I thought it needed to do.

Good luck, and welcome to the board,
Chris

[Carl Thunberg]

Personally, I think you would regret upgrading from an 18-foot daysailer to a much larger boat on a 4-mile lake. Short-tacking a larger boat is not always convenient or fun. When you are are ready to cruise Lake Michigan, the larger boats will still be there. Maybe as an intermediate step, consider a CD25. There are plenty of them and pricing is affordable. Lots to consider. Good luck!

[Jim Walsh]

Personally, I think you would regret upgrading from an 18-foot daysailer to a much larger boat on a 4-mile lake. Short-tacking a larger boat is not always convenient or fun. When you are are ready to cruise Lake Michigan, the larger boats will still be there. Maybe as an intermediate step, consider a CD25. There are plenty of them and pricing is affordable. Lots to consider. Good luck!

I’m with Carl on this. I feel the primary function should dictate the size and amenities required.

[mgphl52]

Personally, I think you would regret upgrading from an 18-foot daysailer to a much larger boat on a 4-mile lake. Short-tacking a larger boat is not always convenient or fun. When you are are ready to cruise Lake Michigan, the larger boats will still be there. Maybe as an intermediate step, consider a CD25. There are plenty of them and pricing is affordable. Lots to consider. Good luck!

I’m with Carl on this. I feel the primary function should dictate the size and amenities required.

Plus moving a CD25 elsewhere will be far cheaper than moving a CD27-28-30...
Having owned 2 CD25s (and not CD25D) I can attest that they are great boats for day sailing and short cruising.

[tjr818]

I don't think you can fit four people comfortably into the cockpit of a 25. On a 28 leave the jib furled and with main and the self tending staysail short tacks would not be at all difficult. Those of us who sail the inland waters no how to tack ( we do it every 2 miles or so). Lots of practice. It gives the crew something to do, a way to contribute. IMHO

[TJH]

I've got a 27, and if part of your mission is to learn systems and what not, I don't think the boat has much to teach in that regard. You could learn a bunch by refurbishing and replacing stuff - wiring is old, that type of stuff. But it's just not a complicated boat. That's a plus for me.

If you are taller than 6', you'll find the headroom limiting. I round up to 6', and I can stand upright in some places, and I bang my forehead against the teak trim in others.

I mostly agree with the previous comment about the cockpit being a little crowded while underway with 4, though that depends on the size of your crew. Myself, my 5'8" Dad and my 5'3" cousin all know how to stay out from underfoot on a sailboat, and we managed fine.

For sailing ability, I am routinely surprised how well the 27 handles lighter winds. She isn't a J boat, but 6 kts of winds and I can have a pleasant day on the lake(Chickamauga, down here in Chattanooga).

For the 28 and 30, I had an owner of a 28 come aboard to help with an electrical issue, and he was shocked at how much smaller the 27 was. He said, basically, the 28 and 30 felt pretty similar in size, but the jump up from the 27 was readily apparent.

Were it me, I'd get the boat in the best condition for the lowest amount of money in my budget that did 80% of what I thought it needed to do.

Good luck, and welcome to the board,
Chris

Very helpful. Thanks for that and the welcome. It's interesting that in the current market, the asking prices are all over the board between 27s and 30s. Of course much of that is condition, but there doesn't seem to be an obvious progression in cost as you go up in size between those models.

[TJH]

Personally, I think you would regret upgrading from an 18-foot daysailer to a much larger boat on a 4-mile lake. Short-tacking a larger boat is not always convenient or fun. When you are are ready to cruise Lake Michigan, the larger boats will still be there. Maybe as an intermediate step, consider a CD25. There are plenty of them and pricing is affordable. Lots to consider. Good luck!

I’m with Carl on this. I feel the primary function should dictate the size and amenities required.

Plus moving a CD25 elsewhere will be far cheaper than moving a CD27-28-30...
Having owned 2 CD25s (and not CD25D) I can attest that they are great boats for day sailing and short cruising.

Fair point on moving costs, and that's not insignificant as the availability of CDs in the midwest isn't like it is on the east coast. I get what you're saying with the short tacks. When I've been racing in a 34' Pearson we're not even close to running four miles and it doesn't seem to bother anyone. I have been on a 25 when it was up on the trailer, and it seemed great for two people, but I thought four would be tough--my girls are little now, but not forever! Again, appreciate all the insights.

[Keith]

My two cents worth on cockpit space with tiller vs wheel. If you are siting in the cockpit of a tiller boat while not sailing it has much more room then the same cockpit with a wheel. If you are sailing in that same cockpit you will find that you actually have more useable space with the wheel because the swing of the tiller can pretty much take up the entire cockpit except up against the cabin top bulkhead. So it comes back to your primary function.

Keith

[Keith]

My two cents worth on cockpit space with tiller vs wheel. If you are siting in the cockpit of a tiller boat while not sailing it has much more room then the same cockpit with a wheel. If you are sailing in that same cockpit you will find that you actually have more useable space with the wheel because the swing of the tiller can pretty much take up the entire cockpit except up against the cabin top bulkhead. So it comes back to your primary function.

Keith