changing boom cleats for reefing and outhaul

[radsailor]

I currently have small hard plastic horn cleats on the boom for the outhaul and leech reefing line. I would like to replace them with V cleats as these will be faster and safer.I was hoping to find replacements with matching mounting holes, but no luck.

What is the best way to mount new cleats on the boom with regard to strength, metal incompatibility, and ease of mounting ?

Thanks in advance

[Jim Walsh]

The problem with v cleats is that they cannot be relied upon to hold a line securely. Faster perhaps, safer...no.

[Joe Myerson]

To reinforce what Jim said, I would prefer metal cleats to plastic ones for reefing. Just a thought.

--Joe

[radsailor]

The very sturdy feeling plastic cleats are already on the boom and they have held up for at least as long as I have owned the boat (1 year).
The reason I was leaning towards replacing with V cleats is it is difficult to maintain the outhaul tension while securing the line on the horn as opposed to just pulling it through a V cleat. The reefing line is actually easier to cleat, perhaps because it is larger diameter.

I will see what others say. If majority is against the V cleats, I will leave well enough alone.

[John Stone]

Concur with Mr Walsh. Jam cleats AKA V cleats are a hazard. They will fail you. They are also plastic and subject to UV and freeze damage. Aluminum horn cleats are a good option. You’re going to have to use SS fasteners so apply some tef-gel to the threads to reduce galvanic corrosion. If you are determined to have the line take the strain while you secure it you can add a cam cleats to the running end just before the horn cleat. I have not seen a plastic jam cleat since so was racing dinghies back in the 70s.

[atcowboy]

The very sturdy feeling plastic cleats are already on the boom and they have held up for at least as long as I have owned the boat (1 year).
The reason I was leaning towards replacing with V cleats is it is difficult to maintain the outhaul tension while securing the line on the horn as opposed to just pulling it through a V cleat. The reefing line is actually easier to cleat, perhaps because it is larger diameter.

I will see what others say. If majority is against the V cleats, I will leave well enough alone.

I forget the name of the technique but if you belay the line around the horn opposing the force and keep tension on the running end you can pull radially on the standing end to tension the line and as you release the running end pull in the slack created with the running end. This may help you with your problem with no hardware change.

If you can fit a V cleat between the load and the horn cleat and place it fair, as you belay around the horn and pull it will feed through the V and give you time to make it fast to the horn cleat. Any failure of the V is backed up by the horn cleat.

When I revamped my boom (reefing and outhaul) I went for schaefer aluminum horn cleats. I chose the size based on the what I decided would be worst case loads and that lead me to the cleats I chose. On my sailing dinghy, with much lighter loads, everything is plastic. If I could have found plastic ones to handle the loads I calculated for my CD27, I probably would have gone with them.

- AT

[radsailor]

I believe the term is "sweating"

Re putting a cam cleat before the horn cleat, why use the horn cleat at all. I think a cam cleat can handle an outhaul line or leech reefing line. It works fine for my jib and genoa sheets

[John Stone]

I believe the term is "sweating"

Re putting a cam cleat before the horn cleat, why use the horn cleat at all. I think a cam cleat can handle an outhaul line or leech reefing line. It works fine for my jib and genoa sheets

I would be concerned a luffing main could shake the line out of a cam or jam cleat. If no topping lift someone could get hit with a falling boom. I’ve had sheets shook out of cam cleats plenty of times. If there is a bail as part of the cam cleat it’s less likely.

Sweating is a great technique and it works easily enough. My only advice is most of us are better served over the long haul if we keep things simple as possible. But, in the end it’s your boat, your money, your way.

[radsailor]

I have a "boomkicker" so no worries about the boom falling on my head.
In 50 years of sailing, I have never had a line jump out of a cam cleat.

[John Stone]

I have a "boomkicker" so no worries about the boom falling on my head.
In 50 years of sailing, I have never had a line jump out of a cam cleat.

We have all pretty much suggested avoid plastic and horn cleats are the safest and most reliable. But it sounds like you have a plan already and a ton of experience to base it on. If you are happy with jam cleats go for it.

As far as how to secure the new cleat...if the boom is thick enough you can drill and tap for fasteners and coat them liberally with tef-gel. If the cleat you choose is aluminum no other action required. If it’s stainless cleat I recommend a strip of UHMW tape trimmed to fit the underside of the cleat to serve as a barrier to eliminate surface contact between the aluminum boom and SS cleat.

Good luck.

[mgphl52]

Another option to consider for fastening attachments to your boom or mast would be blind rivet nuts.
They will allow for removal and reinstallation as well as give you more threads than you get from just taping the extrusion.
Google blind rivet nuts for many options and suppliers.

[radsailor]

I have a "boomkicker" so no worries about the boom falling on my head.
In 50 years of sailing, I have never had a line jump out of a cam cleat.

We have all pretty much suggested avoid plastic and horn cleats are the safest and most reliable. But it sounds like you have a plan already and a ton of experience to base it on. If you are happy with jam cleats go for it.

As far as how to secure the new cleat...if the boom is thick enough you can drill and tap for fasteners and coat them liberally with tef-gel. If the cleat you choose is aluminum no other action required. If it’s stainless cleat I recommend a strip of UHMW tape trimmed to fit the underside of the cleat to serve as a barrier to eliminate surface contact between the aluminum boom and SS cleat.

Good luck.

Thank you for answering the original question

[Bill Goldsmith]

I second John Stone's suggestion. The advantage of tapping threads (with plenty of tef-gel) is strength, and if it happens to start to wiggle, you can give it a turn and tighten it up. Not so with rivets. Sheet metal screws are often used but I stay away from them because they dig hard into the aluminum and even if you tef gel them, they will corrode sooner than with tapped threads.

[mgphl52]

I second John Stone's suggestion. The advantage of tapping threads (with plenty of tef-gel) is strength, and if it happens to start to wiggle, you can give it a turn and tighten it up. Not so with rivets. Sheet metal screws are often used but I stay away from them because they dig hard into the aluminum and even if you tef gel them, they will corrode sooner than with tapped threads.

Please note that "blind rivet nuts" are not direct rivets. When installed properly they will far out last a taped hole in the extrusion!

[fmueller]

Regarding your outhaul ... you might consider doing what I plan for my outhaul this spring. I’m going from 2/1 single sheve small blocks to 4/1 double shave small blocks. 2/1 for me is just not enough reduction to allow any kind of “feel” in outhaul tension and discourages me from releasing the outhaul after a sail. My setup is just simple end of boom double blocks, end of boom eyelet fitting to clew grommet and 4” aluminum horn cleat to secure the outhaul. I’d just like to be able to experiment with varying tension on the foot of the main. I’ve bought Ronstan 20 series blocks.

https://www.ronstan.us/marine5/product. ... No=RF20212

https://www.ronstan.us/marine5/product. ... No=RF20202

Regarding jam cleats ... I added 4” horn style aluminum jam cleats to my boom for my reefing lines which run forward to the mast end of the boom so I can sit at the mast and reef. My 27 is small enough that I can sit with my legs around the mast and reach all reefing lines, main halyard, and winches on the mast. I’m pretty safe sitting thus in choppy water The jam on the horn cleat allows one to make that first half wrap of the reefing line and not loose tension then completing the standard cleat hitch... on a larger boat you’d have a winch on the boom ... I’m considering adding a small snubbing winch just aft of the reefing cleats ..

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=4563056

Cheers ...