Does the teak cover on top of the rudderpost do anything?

[wikakaru]

There was a recent photo in an unrelated topic of the top of a Typhoon Weekender's rudder shaft without the oval teak cover (first photo below). When I saw the photo it started me thinking...Is there any reason not to just fiberglass over the gap between the rudder tube and cockpit and leave off the teak oval? Does it serve some function I'm not aware of? Is there a way to remove the rudder tube, for example to replace a bearing, that would explain not glassing down the top of the rudder tube? I thought the rudder tube was glassed in at the bottom of the hull and couldn't be removed.

The teak oval is not in a place that really adds any beauty to the boat. It's just one more thing to varnish. I have a piece like this on both my Typhoon (2nd photo below) and CD22. Just wondering...

Thanks in advance for your input!

--Jim

IMG_2813.JPG

(Here's the unrelated topic with the photo that prompted my question: http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37350)

[Walter Hobbs]

Same thing on my 27. I think it looks nice. Function, I don't know.

[robwm]

Jim, my CD22 also has the teak collar/apron surrounding the rudder tube. IMHO this piece is there to provide reinforcement of, and a "neat" finish over the area where the rudder tube exits through the decking.

The fiberglass decking surrounding the tube is subject to stresses over time due to movement of the tube/rudder. This is evidenced in your photo by the stress cracks on the decking surrounding the tube and radiating away from it. Eliminating this type of stress would have required a fair amount of reinforcement in this area of the deck and likely presented an installation problem since this is in a tight/difficult to reach area.

The collar/apron provides a "neat" solution to this problem since it provides reinforcement of the decking where the top of the tube exits thereby reducing its movement, and, also covers any stress cracks that may develop over time (as they seem to have developed in your boat).

Anyway, my two cents worth hoping it helps,

Robert

[fmueller]

When we rebuilt Jerezana a few years ago the only teak that was beyond repair was the rudder post collar. It just sits down there almost permanently wet - so not surprising. Anyway since we were going to install Sea Deck on the seats and underfoot, we decided just to rebuild with filleted epoxy around the exit of the rudder tube thru the cockpit sole, this time properly, and omit the collar. From the factory, and hidden by the teak collar, was just a rather crude mess of epoxy bonding. That was ground back a bit and a fresh application and more robust version put in place then sanded a bit.

On Jerezana I think the teak collar was mostly cometic. The exit hole was not tight to the rudder tube and simply caulked to keep water from getting under the teak and it was just screwed into the sole without regard to the core. We filled the old screw holes. One good reason not to have a teak collar (1" high) is that the lip of it is often underfoot and a bit of a trip hazard, and a real toe breaker.

We decided to paint the rebuilt tube in flat black urethan. I can't say its as pretty as teak could be ... but not an eyesore either. The Sea Deck tech who measured the cockpit, on a whim, put the circle around the post, which was a nice surprise.

If I was going to opt for a collar there or hand concern about strength, I might consider 1/2" G10 (bevel the perimeter) epoxied in place which would hugely increase the strength there, then paint to match the decks.

[Typhoon4Fun]

Anyway since we were going to install Sea Deck on the seats and underfoot, we decided just to rebuild with filleted epoxy around the exit of the rudder tube thru the cockpit sole, this time properly, and omit the collar. From the factory, and hidden by the teak collar, was just a rather crude mess of epoxy bonding. That was ground back a bit and a fresh application and more robust version put in place then sanded a bit.

Very interesting.. did you literally just shape a neat fillet around the post with thickened epoxy or did you do anything else to reinforce? Like others I had assumed this piece was intended to reinforce the cockpit sole.

I was planning on re-bedding or replacing my teak collar this off-season because I am pretty sure the fasteners are leaking into core there and I want to refinish the non-skid. I was trying to think of a better way to prevent leaks when re-installing but eliminate the holes altogether would be best, if possible.

[fmueller]

Yes just used thickened epoxy ... what was OEM under the collar wasn't pretty, it appeared to be sturdy enough, but rough, we just cleaned it up, . ...

If the teak collar originally offered "some" support, it no longer did when I bought the boat! There was just some kind of caulk in the gap between the collar and rudder tube and it was crumbling, the wood was soaked and soft and the finish peeling off. It never really occurred to me to think of it as a structural piece, it just looked so obviously a trim piece gone by the wayside. Also I think if you can look under your sole somehow you'll see that the rudder tube is held to the underside with a "mash" of chopped glass and epoxy crudely "beveled" around the tube.

The thing I did notice (sailed the boat for three years with the collar in place) was that I stubbed my toes on the lip of that collar, once pretty badly. You stand right around the tiller all the time. Also when we boxed in the motor, a new lateral "partition" was tabbed into place just forward of the position of the rudder tube under the sole ... so there is an added structure in my boat that adds rigidness to the sole and presumably the rudder tube as well ... right now, even when I'm giving a good heave on the tiller there is zero sign of movement of the tube, just a jot of play between the tube liner and the post itself ... I do occasionally tighten the tiller strap hinge bolt or it creeks ...

I still have the CD 27 drip problem while motoring. Some year soon I'll drop the rudder to have a good look at the shoe down by the keel, the rudder, post, and tube in general - and repair anything aging - and then try to find a boot that will go over the exposed rudder tube and rudder post right under the tiller strap almost like a shaft seal. I might have to cut the rudder tube down and inch to fit a boot ... luckily on the 27s the tube pokes up about 6" from the sole ...

About your Typhoon ... I'd just replace that wood with G10 or similar which you could epoxy in place (no screws needed) and that really would beef up the sole around the post ... you'd make sure any gap between this new collar and the rudder tube was filled with epoxy/resin or epoxy/micro fibers , and then you really would have added strength to the tube.

[Ben Miller]

Thanks for starting this discussion, Jim! Full disclosure: That's my Ty in Jim's example photo. It lost its rudder tube trim ring at some point prior to my ownership. Based on that and the stainless steel tiller, I'm guessing one of the previous owners had a dislike of varnish.

Personally, while I disagree on the PO's choice of tiller material (the SS one works fine, but feels yucky) I have zero desire to add the trim ring. I've never noticed any flex in the rudder tube, although I haven't exactly been on the lookout for it. At some point I should clean up that area around the rudder post, it just hasn't risen high enough in the list of priorities yet.

[wikakaru]

When we rebuilt Jerezana a few years ago the only teak that was beyond repair was the rudder post collar. It just sits down there almost permanently wet - so not surprising. Anyway since we were going to install Sea Deck on the seats and underfoot, we decided just to rebuild with filleted epoxy around the exit of the rudder tube thru the cockpit sole, this time properly, and omit the collar. From the factory, and hidden by the teak collar, was just a rather crude mess of epoxy bonding. That was ground back a bit and a fresh application and more robust version put in place then sanded a bit.

On Jerezana I think the teak collar was mostly cometic. The exit hole was not tight to the rudder tube and simply caulked to keep water from getting under the teak and it was just screwed into the sole without regard to the core. We filled the old screw holes. One good reason not to have a teak collar (1" high) is that the lip of it is often underfoot and a bit of a trip hazard, and a real toe breaker.

We decided to paint the rebuilt tube in flat black urethan. I can't say its as pretty as teak could be ... but not an eyesore either. The Sea Deck tech who measured the cockpit, on a whim, put the circle around the post, which was a nice surprise.

If I was going to opt for a collar there or hand concern about strength, I might consider 1/2" G10 (bevel the perimeter) epoxied in place which would hugely increase the strength there, then paint to match the decks.

Wow, Fred, lovely job on your cockpit! I think G10 epoxied in place and painted to match sounds like a good way to go. No leaks, no varnishing, no toe stubbing. I can't imagine that the teak added that much strength--I think it is held in place with self-tapping screws.

Thanks for showing me how it could look!

--Jim

[Typhoon4Fun]

About your Typhoon ... I'd just replace that wood with G10 or similar which you could epoxy in place (no screws needed) and that really would beef up the sole around the post ... you'd make sure any gap between this new collar and the rudder tube was filled with epoxy/resin or epoxy/micro fibers , and then you really would have added strength to the tube.

Good idea - sounds pretty straightforward. Definitely something to do after fixing any soggy core.