difficulty backing up a Cape Dory 27

[keesprins]

My name is Kees. I'm about to buy a Cape Dory 27 and was quite disappointed in how she backed up. No control with the rudder at all it seemed. I understand the rudder is quite small and far from the stern, so less efficient while backing up. I've had different full keelers in the past, but most performed better that way. They all had stern hung rudders.

How do you folks deal with this? I've played with the idea of adding on 6 to 8" to the trailing edge of the rudder to give it more bite. Anyone done something like that?

[Neil Gordon]

I have about 25 years of experience going in reverse on my 28. Short version is that wind on the bow will win every time.

In tight quarters, it's difficult (and less than prudent) to gain enough speed to feel any pressure on the tiller.

The 27 is a great boat. Is backing ability that important a feature?

[Walter Hobbs]

There was a recent discussion here called " prop walk" I think. You should be able to search for it.

[Steve Laume]

Backing up a Cape Dory isn't so much about gettint it to do what you want it to do as it is about working with what it wants to do.

As Neil stated the wind always wins. The bow will blow down wind and you need to account for that. The stern will kick left when in reverse. And she will steer very nicely in either direction when going forward. If you use these traits to your advantage, rather than trying to overcome them you will have a much better time of things. The first rule is to go slowly. Extremely slow unless there is wind that would require a bit more speed. You will find the boat to be very responsive and realize the rudder is big enough.

I always try to come into a dock, port side to with the fairway on the starboard side. Cut all power maybe 50 yards before the slip and move slowly down the fairway until I make a gentle turn into the slip. Once I am just about where I want to be, a burst of reverse will bring the stern in to snuggle against the dock.

When leaving, I usually walk the boat out to the end of the slip then climb back aboard and give her a couple or bursts of reverse to bring the stern around. Then I fill in with a couple of burst of forward while the helm is hard to starboard. You can alternate between forward and reverse in this fashion with no need to change the rudder.

You can practically spin the boat in it's own length, going clockwise, in this fashion. Forget about spinning counterclockwise. This just isn't what your boat wants to do.

Please don't modify your rudder. It probably won't do any good and may mess up the boat's sailing characteristics. It will also put more strain on the rudder bearings. It will definitely effect resale value and not in a good way. Carl Alberg was a great designer so I doubt you could come up with a better rudder design.

It may take time and you will not be horsing your boat around like a sport fish captain but after you come to an understanding of how your boat handles it should be something you can work with, Steve.

[Warren Kaplan]

I had a CD27 for 15 years. Backing up was always a crap shoot. Always at the mercy of wind, current and whether you needed to back up fast or slow.

I had to back out of a tight slip every time I wanted to use the boat. The area to back into was very narrow and if I couldn't back the stern to starboard quickly after the bow cleared the last dock piling, I was in a heap of trouble. Finally I came across a foolproof solution. I took 50' of line and attached one end to the starboard stern cleat. Then I fed the line around the last dock piling on the starboard side and brought the rest of the line back to the cockpit and held it loosely in my hand. I'd put the boat into reverse and as I backed straight astern to start, I paid out the line from one hand while I controlled the tiller with the other. As soon as the bow cleared the last piling I tightened the line in my hand (one turn around a winch or cleat nearby) and the tension in the line automatically pulled the stern to starboard. When I was facing where I needed to go, I'd IMMEDIATELY put the engine in neutral to stop the prop from turning and then I'd let go one end of the line and just pull in around the piling and back into the boat. Work every time! Easy peezy

Important to get a line approximately double boat length as going around the piling backing full out requires about that. Important to put prop in neutral when pulling the line in through the water so the line doesn't foul the prop. Once the line is back aboard (30 seconds tops) put the engine in gear and your off with no sweat backing out of a tight slip in a tight anchorage!

[Neil Gordon]

I took 50' of line and attached one end to the starboard stern cleat. Then I fed the line around the last dock piling on the starboard side and brought the rest of the line back to the cockpit and held it loosely in my hand. I'd put the boat into reverse and as I backed straight astern to start, I paid out the line from one hand while I controlled the tiller with the other. As soon as the bow cleared the last piling I tightened the line in my hand (one turn around a winch or cleat nearby) and the tension in the line automatically pulled the stern to starboard.

Yup... spring lines are the best for keeping things in control. That line from boat to dock can also be used to get you back in if you change your mind. Doubling a line works for getting underway generally... especially useful if you need to untie a boat that will move away from you as you otherwise attempt to board.

[Pembquist]

My 28 is the only sailboat with a motor that I have used. Watching helpful YouTube videos on prop walk etc. is a humorous experience, their boats do not behave like mine. Pretty much as has been stated the wind blows the bow down, you have to have an uncomfortable amount of way for a marina to steer in reverse, slower is better, spring lines, fending off, walking the boat out are not signs of incompetence but rather prudence.


When I first started backing out of my slip (a single towards the end of its finger) I would often be unable to get the bow turned towards the exit of the aisle and would drift down to the head dock feeling stupid. The problem is that the aisle is too narrow to give the boat forward throttle for long enough to get it spinning hard enough before you have to reverse at which point the bow really likes to blow down, ( I have noticed that a little stern way makes the wind more effective at blowing the bow either direction then when standing still.) Once the bow got pointed towards the head dock the situation would be even worse, I even sometimes just backed out with bow pointed at the head, getting enough speed to have the rudder bite in reverse which is an unpleasant way to maneuver in a marina.

I think I have gotten better but now if there is any wind I use a spring line fastened to the stern cleat and lead through a carabiner attached to the corner of my slip back to the cockpit, backing up and then holding the line spins the boat around nicely. I use a floating line so It won't foul the prop when I am pulling it in.

[BernieA]

My CD28 is moored on a starboard finger facing north and exit is to starboard. In this location prevailing winds are north. I've taken to pushing out and stern to port. Prop walk is to starboard. If I need a bit more sternway, I give it a short burst of reverse then idle, which seems to help with steering. So far, its worked for me.

Bernie Armstrong
S/V Pinafore
Sequim Bay WA

[keesprins]

Thanks you all for your replies. I will keep all that in mind when I pick up the boat.

[s2sailorlis]

Try backing up a full keel with an outboard...trust me it’s much worse!

I have to back into my “slip” every time as my town marina uses frog hooks to secure the stern of boat to the main dock, kind of Mediterranean style so to speak.

As others have stated you need to work with what you got, use forward thrust to your advantage to control direction, go slow and deliberately. Sometimes I’ve needed to go in reverse down the fairway to fight any strong winds.

I found this tutorial helpful when needing to reverse into a slip..the reverse portion is about 2/3rds into the video...

https://youtu.be/PoGMAEjiHmU

[Chrisa006]

https://www.amazon.com/Maneuver-Dock-Sa ... 1944824065

This book is a great help for docking. It had online animation to go with it.

[kerrydeare]

... Is backing ability that important a feature?

Neil, like everything else, I reckon "it depends." For many years I used a slip in NJ that was exposed to NE winds, and featured a bulkhead on the land side. When it kicked up and the waves bounced off that bulkhead and back to the vessel, it was "wild bronco" time. It was always a concern, especially with chafe on the lines. It also meant a very uncomfortable time in the boat when it blew.

Eventually I learned to back the vessel (CD28) into the slip with reasonable precision and this allowed the bow to face the NE wind. Not a great solution but kinda mandatory.

Regards,

Armond

[tjr818]

...Eventually I learned to back the vessel (CD28) into the slip with reasonable precision and this allowed the bow to face the NE wind. Not a great solution but kinda mandatory.
Regards, Armond

We always tried backed our 27 into the slip, on occasion the wind would just not cooperate and we would have to pull in bow first. If we did have to pull in bow first when the wind died down we could swing the boat around with a gentle shove and a few lines, no one on board and no need to start the engine. We used lots of lines and would off load a crew member to help from the slip. This did two things for us, one it kept the summer sun from beating down on the companionway varnish, and two it made it so easy to leave the slip for the next sail.

The 27 is such a wonderful boat we could easily forgive its bad backing.