"Leoma" update 4/20/19

[JD-MDR]

A couple photos of my new dodger, I moved the boarding ladder to the port side. I'm looking for a smart way to have a quick release so I can drop it down from in the water. . I'll be going back to Ventura Monday morning (60 mi). I had problems getting the windvane hooked up. The lines are confusing and the diagram shows two wraps around the steering drum. I was getting really frustrated and was wishing I had gone with another brand. Then I thought of trying it without the wraps. Here is a photo of how I hooked up the drum and now it turns and stays on the drum nicely. So the control lines should work also. I'll find out Monday. I went out of the harbor today to try it but I don't think there was enough wind. I thought it should work in light winds. Probably this is all confusing. You can see the diagram of the control lines on the earlier post. Happy Easter and Passover.

[JD-MDR]

I'm posting the diagram again to make it easier in case anyone wants to offer suggestions

[Frenchy]

Hi J.D. - Your boat looks wonderful. The weather there is even more so. Here it's rainy and dismal. I don't have any
brilliant ideas for you. The rig you've displayed for the self steering looks complicated to me and it's always best to simplify,
simplify, simplify. Perhaps, if you're inclined, you could convert to a tiller and run lines into the cockpit like John Stone has.
The conversion to a tiller is a big job but has the advantage of a better feel for the boat and better reliability.
In your situation, planning a pacific voyage, that's what I would do. You don't want anything complicated or
failure prone out there. That's my .02. Good luck whatever you decide. - Jean

[JD-MDR]

Thanks Jean. I'm not giving up . Yves at Cape Horn thinks this will work and after getting it set up underneath it's not really any more complicated than what John has on the "Far Reach". I got the drum line right. It rotates stop to stop perfectly like its supposed to. I think the control lines for the quadrant just need to be adjusted. I think it could be in the placement of the blocks. Those fiddle blocks can only move so much and doesn't seem to be able to rotate the steering shaft much. I know when I'm hand steering I really don't need to turn the wheel much usually just barely 5 or 10 degrees. Lucky I didn't glass the pads in place. for now I just set them with bondo. Tonight or tomorrow I will sail the 60 mi north to my home port. I hope it works. My next project is to haulout and finish the aft chain backing plates. I think in August. That would be two years since last launch . That will give me some time to pay down the credit card and save for the boatyard. I want them to do the glass work. I'll remove al the rusty parts and hook everything back up. I'll let them tune the rig. I may let them paint the bottom since they gouge me to death with taxes and environmental fees anyway.

[John Stone]

JD
Couple things. You are doing some great work. Don’t let the hiccups make you second guess yourself. It’s simply an engineering problem to be solved. Technical problems often lead us to complicated adjustments...sometimes necessary but usually not. Simple is a lot harder to do than complicated. It’s counter intuitive.

If Yves says it will work, it will work. You are maybe the first to do it with worm gear. So it will take awhile to get it figured out. Even Larry Pardey, who I think is a genius at keeping things simple had to make three or four variations of the windvane they perfected for Taleisin. BTW, it’s now sold by Mike Anderson and called a “Free Hand Self-Steering Vane. Won’t work on CDs though. So be patient my friend.

I am looking at the diagram. Does that say bungee? What is that and what’s the purpose? I understand the second line fixed coming off the steering drum...is it supported? Those double fiddle blocks can’t be just hanging in the air unless they are connected to the underside of the deck closely to the blocks themselves. In other words, they can’t be hanging on a long leash. Friction and excess slack is not your friend.

The other thing. I’m not sure I can explain this correctly. But, it matters which way the line wraps around the steering drum. If you wrap it the wrong way you will reverse the correction and the vane will be pulling on the drum backwards and the effect on steering will be opposite. The boat should come up but instead will steer down and vise vice-versa.

If you are standing behind your boat looking forward. And you are on sailing up wind on starboard tack. And the boats starts to turn right and head up into the wind:
-the air blade will tilt over to starboard.
-the servo blade will swing to starboard (though this is not relevant to the issue).
-the rudder must physically swing to the left to make the boat steer back to port.
-the wheel must spin left too steer the boat left.

So, make sure the turns on the steering drum are going the right way to not reverse the steering.

Like I said, if Yves says it will work then I am confident it will work. How well it works depends on how much inherent friction is in the worm gear (you probably don’t have any latitude there and how well you have it set up.

Tiller steering. You are not there yet. Next to the simplicity and reliability of tiller steer, is worm gear. Can you convert? Yes. Should you convert? No. Not now.

You are doing great. Seriously. You have the right attitude and you are determined like a junk yard dog.
Keep us posted. Do not hesitate to ask me questions if you think I can help. PM me and I’ll send you my phone number if texting is faster and easier.

[JD-MDR]

Thanks John. Im at the boat now I was about to give up. But your message gave me a another wind. I see why it needs a couple wraps on the drum because it will only pull 90 degrees each way I think the problem is that the drum is not verticle the lines cross over and bind then fall off. Yes the fiddle blocks are held in place with bungees. I think they have to move back and forth so they can’t be mounted I will have to steer back to Ventura tonight. I can only work another hour or so because its Easter We will have a big dinner at home

[John Stone]

Hmmm...

OK. I don’t see how it will work with the bungees. Seems like unworkable slack in the system. Vane says turn but the wheel can’t respond in kind.

Consider option 1 below. Ditch the fiddle and use s small becket block. It will have to float but if you make it a small one it will probably be OK floating.

Option 2. Ditch the separate line on the drum and the becket block altogether. Position that outboard block so there is a fair lead to the wheel drum.

Option 3. Use a fair lead to along the line to the wheel drum. More friction but if you use naked dyneema it will be slippery in the fairlead. Or secure a small block to the underside of the cockpit sole to act as the fairlead to the wheel drum then almost no friction.

Or there is some other way to accomplish it that has not revealed itself yet. Do not despair though. Probably need more coffee. Work the problem. Like Apollo 13. “Leona, we’ve got a problem.”

[JD-MDR]

Thank you so much for your help. I think The fiddle blocks need to move from side to side. The bungees are to hold the lines on the drum snug when the quadrant lines are slack. They have to stay snug and and on the drum for about 3.5 revolutions of the wheel. I think one problem is because the drum is not vertical. the lines cross over and bind then fall off the drum. One of my earlier post I thought i could do it with no wraps on the drum but I found out the quadrant can only turn it 90 degrees.It needs to have two wraps. The wheel turns 3.5 revolutions stop to stop. I'll try to get better photos. I got most of the hoses out of the way.

[John Stone]

JD
I’m not there so I can’t see all the obstacles your facing. Forgive me if I suggest things you already thought of.

It seems to me if the drum is not vertical the flanges of the drum will have to be bigger to capture the line, like a funnel as it were. You might only need a larger flange on the aft side of the drum—closest to the CH quadrant. Do an experiment with some mock up like doorskin ply hot glued to the wheel drum. Make it as large a diameter as you can. If it works, then you can fabricate a prototype out of 3/8 or even 1/2”ply, dadoed to fit around the lip of the wheel drum so there is no lip standing proud to damage the line. If that works then you can make your final version out of G10 or aluminum or have it machined to perfection.

Thoughts?

[JD-MDR]

Exactly what I was trying to figure out. I will try it The drum is some type of plastic or PVC. I can easily screw something on the down side. Thanks. I still have the problem of the line crossing itself and binding. I won't be able to work on it till next weekend. I have to get back home and I have work next week(Thankfuly)

[JD-MDR]

Thanks John For your help, I would PM you but I want everyone to see what good service the Cape Horn guys provide. I thought of bolting two drums together so I could separate the lines . Yves (or Eric) offered to make a double channeled drum for me at no charge they will ship it soon. I still may need to attach something on the downhill side. Maybe not since there will only be half the amount on line in the channel. I've been praying to "St. Joseph the Worker" to help me with this. The trip back up to Ventura was nice. I left Sunday evening and slept at Paradise cove then 8 hrs to Ventura. Light NW winds 12-15. The boat tracks pretty good on a close haul. I noticed a little water coming in when bucking into the wind.I don't think its from the shaft . That goes into the pan under the engine. Last year when I launched they re-bedded the tranducers and what they thought was a zinc( the lightning grounding plate). I don't think its from deck hardware .I wasn't getting any spray on deck. Its not a lot of water. I turned the pump off. after a few hours when I got to port. there was about 5 gallons in the bilge.

[John Stone]

Copy all JD. Both Yves and Éric have been great to me too.

Can’t say enough about the support Cape Horn has provided.

I like the idea of the two groove drum. But I still recommend a prototype, or a series of refinements before Éric makes you a modified drum. You want to be absolutely sure you have the solution, and all it’s supporting parts, nailed down before you install the final product.

Others might have better ideas in the source of water.

Do rule out leaking water tanks and the rudder port stuffing box.

G’luck.