CD 27 --> CD 36

[shinchman]

I am wanting to move up from my CD 27 to a larger boat, looking closely at CD 330 & 36, Pacific Seacraft 34 & 37, Cabo Rico 34 & 38, Passport 40, Hood Waquiez 38, etc.

I am curious especially about sailing characteristics of CD 36, as I had the Typhoon before the 27. I have not seen much discussion on the board on how it feels to move from the tiller 18 & 27 sloop rigs to wheel 36 cutter rig. They say that the 27 is one of the best sailing designs in the CD line, and Alberg's personal favorite (not sure if that is true). I love sailing my CD 27 Annie Girl and don't want to lose the ability for super fun afternoon of day sailing off the mooring, even as I hope to do more and longer distance cruising. (Currently we cruise the 27 all over the Maine coast, and brought it up originally from NJ.)

Annie Girl has a 135% tri-radial genoa and crosscut main (both new in 2016) and some weather helm when the wind gets up, but is sneakily fast for her class. Very efficient up to 25 knots of wind and can point well for her design/era. Downwind performance is poor in light winds (whisker pole a necessity) but gets much better as wind increases.

I was out solo last Sunday in Casco Bay with double reefed main and just a tiny scap of jib (25 kts, gusting to maybe 35). It was still fairly protected, not Ocean, and the long tiller let me hide under the dodger. But it was all I could manage (boat was fine).

What is the 36 like in those conditions, how wet, when do you start furling various sail combinations. And the inverse - when do you have to break out the below sail in low wind? Can you predominately single hand the 36? Do you end up forgoing the afternoon day sail as the price of going bigger?

Thanks in advance for any input, sagas, tall tales, lectures, legends, etc.

[pete faga]

Only Imput here
I have been on and below 2 but never while underway.
Nicely finished below decksq
I am currently storing my ladders under the hull @night while I paint the trim of his house!
I believe this Hull was the last built in Taunton and finished @robinhood.
What a keel!

[mgphl52]

Can you predominately single hand the 36? Do you end up forgoing the afternoon day sail as the price of going bigger?

You are definitely asking all the right questions... however, only you can truly answer them!
About 9 years ago I moved from my CD28 to an Allied Princess, 36ft ketch. While the 8 extra feet seemed like a lot, I had no trouble sailing her single-handed. One difference though was the increased freeboard - this made it seem like you were sailing slower than you really were. It also took away some of the fun-factor... The Princess also needed more wind than the CD28 just to make it worth going out.

Long story shortened (some?) is I sailed less and less waiting for better conditions. Finally I found our CD28 on the market again and immediately bought her back!

[bottomscraper]

With the cutter rig of the CD36 you will have more sail combinations. The CD36 displaces more that 2x what the CD27 does so expect a more comfortable ride when the seas are up and a bit slower acceleration and deceleration. The CD36 (on paper) has 1 ft more draft than the published 4ft draft of the CD27 but at least on our boat it's more like 5.5ft than the 5ft advertised. We do sail heavy! If you anchor a lot the heavier ground tackle required for a larger boat is a consideration. I can haul our 45lb anchor and all chain rode by hand I sure to like our windlass! You have a bit less feel with the wheel vs. a tiller but I would never go back! The CD36 will be drier than the CD27 although I still think in Maine a dodger is a must.

[John Stone]

Sinchman,
Those are all big heavy tough boats you listed. So clearly you want more capability. Have you have considered how much more a bigger boat will cost in almost every way—parts, rigging, sails, bottom paint, repairs? It is shocking how much more blocks, shackles, turnbuckles, chain, anchors, slip fees, haul-out, etc cost for a boat only 6’ longer and you are talking about 9’-13’ longer. It’s an order of magnitude more.

In general, I would say the smaller the boat the easier to sail and especially to dock and maneuver in a marina. But there are some, “it depends,” qualifiers.

If you are on a mooring I’d say the difference is minimal. If you are docking in a tight marina with cross wind and cross current it can be much more difficult.

I have singlehanded my 36 a fair amount, both costal and offshore. I don’t see much difference in difficulty of sailing. I don’t have a furler, inboard engine, or electric windlass. Off shore, a larger boat is more stable but the forces acting on sails is greater. Docking in a marina is a whole other issue. But again, the marina design makes a difference and there are some things you can do regarding dock line layout on the boat and on the dock that can make getting in and out easier.

Is a 36 wet? Compared to what? Not any wetter than the boats you listed. And I sail offshore without a dodger and I like it just fine that way. Other folks feel differently. That depends on you. Three years ago we double handed our boat from Cape Lookout, NC to the BVI...it was mostly upwind so about 1,600nm sailed. The last five days we were sailing a close reach in reinforced trade winds of 25-35 knots and 10-14’ seas. The motion was bearable. The decks were often wet. We never took green water over the bow though. We needed foul wx gear on deck. There was a lot of spray. I can’t think of many boats under 40’ that would have been any dryer. A dodger and weather cloths would have kept the forward end of the cockpit completely dry. But it would have been hotter. Choices. I singled handed home. About 1,300nm. But it was down wind almost the whole way. The boat was completely dry. Hatches and port lights open. Magnificent sailing.

My boat has been significantly modified so my comments about sailing are a little apples and oranges comparison.... The Far Reach has a 3.5’ taller rig but a P that is 4’ longer than a stock boat. The J on my boat is 2’9” longer so I carry a lot more working sail than a stock CD 36. For light air I carry a very large 140 percent drifter—that’s like a 160 or 170 on a stock boat. I have to reef early. Probably 15-17 knots. But we don’t sail the boat much over 20° heel. I think stock boats reef at about 20 knots. But, if there is a cats paw of wind we are sailing...but we have no propeller aperture.

We converted from wheel to tiller. Not terribly hard and Vince FitzGerald has recently done the same on his CD 33 ... without dropping the rudder. Personally, I see no value in a wheel on a boat much below 45’. Others feel differently. I mention only to point out “if you like your tiller, you can keep your tiller” ... which is more than I can say about your doctor.

The boat is very tough. She is a great sailing boat...a superb sea-boat. There is no place I would not be willing to take my boat except into the ice.

I do think you will give up some things that unless you really need a big boat will come at a significant cost. You can’t step the mast by yourself. You can’t trailer it home to work on a project in your driveway. A high quality mainsail is about $4,000.

So you are asking the right questions. Good questions. You’ll have to figure out what works best for you.

[Mbigos]

I'd be happy to meet with you near Falmouth, listen to your sailing experience and goals, and give you my thoughts on the versatility and value of the 36. I own and have owned several boats, and sail about 50 days per year. Feel free to private message me.

[shinchman]

John & Rich - many thanks for the insights. Very useful to me. I sail off a mooring but assume that with a bigger boat I will travel more. Motoring and docking a larger boat is one of my greatest hesitations. That and the much larger cost.

Curious as to your boat speed upwind in 30-35 with only a reefed staysail. Those pix are worth a 1,000 words... but then again your words were worth a lot too. -- Steve

[John Stone]

We were making 4.5 to 5.5 knots. Depending on exactly what we were dealing with at the moment. If we cracked of 30-40 degrees our speed shop up to over 7 knots. And it also got a lot more comfortable. I know, because at one point we tried it out to see what the difference would be like. But, we did not want to go to Porto Rico...we wanted to go to Jost van Dyke in the BVI. Though after a couple of days of not eating much I think we were both beginning to think San Juan might not be so bad....