Considering buying a CD25 - questions on rigging and trailer

[DaveR]

I have a lot of questions but for now just these:

• - How much of a vehicle to you need to safely trailer a 25 cd

• - can the CD25 be trailer launched and recovered or do you really need a lift? how difficult is it?

• - How long does it take to rig and how many people does it require?

I appreciate any info on this.
Thanks

[steveg]

Hi Dave,

This is just one persons opinion. Others here may disagree. Here are my answers to your questions:

A half ton full size pick up will tow it nicely. This assumes a quality trailer, preferably with surge brakes.

It can be launched from a trailer. Again a quality trailer set up for this is very helpful. It will need a built in tongue extension or an unattached one. A launch which gets deep enough quickly is also necessary.

Two people can comfortably rig it, tune the mast, hank on sails in about three hours. This includes some time putting up an A frame mast raising rig and removing it once the mast is up.

Hope you find this useful.

[Terry]

Here's my take on trailering.

Expect Gross Tow weight to exceed 5,000 pounds. While a Class III hitch will handle up to 8,000 lbs, sufficient for a loaded CD 25 and trailer, many pickups are not rated high enough. For instance, my Honda Ridgeline is rated at 5,000 only. It's a similar size of a "half-ton" truck. I found a site that lists ratings for various trucks. A 2016 F-150 is rated at 5,000 pounds/500 pounds tongue weight. A 250 is 6,000, and increases to 8,000 only if powered by a 6.7 liter engine.

That site is here: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2015/11/kn ... imits.html

A couple sites say that with a weight distribution system on the trailer the ratings increase. By that theory, my Honda would be appropriate for 8,000 lbs, as it has a Class III hitch. The problem isn't, in my opinion, getting the tongue weight manageable, and isn't even the power, it is braking, power for hills, and gas mileage, or lack there of. Here in Georgia, dual-axle trailers are only required to have one axle with brakes. I had a nice Trident trailer with brakes on both axles. I towed a boat that brought the gross towing weight up around 5,000 lbs. It worked okay. but even with two braking axles, there was a dramatic increase in stopping distance. Additionally, gas milage dropped way off, as did speed going up hills. AND it was terrible in winds. Thinking about it, the boat I hauled was fairly low profile. A sailboat will be higher, therefore more affected by winds.

Another consideration is the net weight of the towing vehicle. My Honda is fairly heavy. A lighter weight truck, in theory, would reduce the gross combination weight, helping out on braking, speed up hills, and gas mileage. However, it also increases instability in winds, and emergency braking situations.

My brother, after buying a fifth-wheel trailer, found his gas-powered Chevy 250 deficient. It didn't have the power he wanted and gas mileage was horrible. He traded it for a 250 diesel. He's happy with that, and considers it the minimum for towing around 6,000 lbs.

Given all that, if I wanted to trailer Cassandra (CD25) with my Honda, I wouldn't hesitate to do so. Rating are, well, made to be exceeded. (I shall forever deny I said that.) It's a matter of knowing what to expect, being careful, and many years towing experience.

My two-cents worth. Yours may vary.

All the Best. Terry

[jepomer]

The Cape Dory 25 design weight is 4000 lbs.
The trailer will be at least 1200 lbs.
Add the "stuff" that will be put into the Cape Dory AND the vehicle.
This must not total greater than the towing capacity of the vehicle.

When purchasing mine, I towed my Cape Dory 25 from Lake Erie to NH using a dual axle utility trailer with a load equalizing hitch. The vehicle was a 2004 Grand Cherokee high output V8 factory tow rated for 7000 lbs. Over 3000 lbs, most states require trailer brakes.

That is the minimum sized vehicle one should use. Current full size 1/2 ton pickups have tow ratings up to 10,000 lbs — CHECK THE PARTICULAR VEHICLE! Not all variations of the same make have that rating. If a vehicle is in an accident and is loaded beyond its rated capacity, there will be lots of legal and insurance complications.

If you are looking for a "trailer sailer" launching most weekends, the CD25 may be more work than you might want to deal with. The draft is not too outrageous but you will need a tongue extender. The rigging can be "pre-set" minimizing the setup time if doing frequent launchings. Some sort of mast crane or gin-pole will be needed even if you have several muscular assistants. Three hours would be typical, but a minimalist might get the routine down to an hour if done every week.

If you are looking for trailering for the beginning and end of the sailing season, or maybe an occasional jaunt to a different location, getting a proper full size 1/2 ton pickup and a proper trailer with a tongue extension might be your answer.

[DaveR]

Steve, Terry and jepomer (hoping this reply lands where all of you see it - first time reply)

Thank you so much for responding so quickly. VERY helpful info.

I knew I'd have to unload my Jeep Liberty for this - wanted to anyway (don't buy one). Planning on a Silverado, but interesting that a Jeep Grand w/V8 can do it.

3 hrs rigging (assuming almost the same for "un-rigging" and prep for travel) is more than I had expected but, Oh well, I'm a fast learner. As jepomer suggested plans are for mostly Lake Michigan with a couple weeks per summer in Lake Geneva so there shouldnt be a lot of rigging, assuming storage at Skipper Buds yard with it rigged between trips. Maybe a slip, dunno yet.

I'm new at trailering (not sailing) so I really appreciate that info and the link. More research due there.

Thanks again to all. What a great source of information. will be joining

[Astronomertoo]

I agree with most of the advice provided above, with the following caveats:
You will be lucky if you can find a launch for our type of full keel 25 ft sailboat. I wish I could. It is expensive to rely on marina lifts.
An empty older CD 25 hull and rig is 4000#. Add 500 lbs loaded, conservative.
The stronger, better adjustable trailers will be all galvanized, usually hot dipped, and likely heavier than 1200#, and available with electric brakes, and will have better "D" rated Trailering Special (ST) tires. I had a great trailer long ago for a 23 to 26 ft CD that weighed 1870#. Typically a cheap trailer, is a cheap trailer. There are great trailers out there that are safe ready to go to Alaska.
Message subject: Re: CD 25 rig for sale
From: Astronomertoo
Sent: Wed 2/21/18 1:32 pm
To: typhooner
Message

IF you get this first time private message I would like you to contact me at my PM, or contact me at my gmail,
bobcapedory25@ gmail.com
I would like to talk to you about the mast and rig.
thanks
Bob C
Moon Shine,
Citrus Springs FL

Subject: CD 25 rig for sale

typhooner wrote:
To the best of my recollection, it was off a 1976 CD25. I myself haven't used the rig but I inspected it carefully before I bought it. There really should be no work required other than a thorough cleaning. The standing rigging is there and functional. There are sailors that make a point of replacing all standing rigging every five years, certainly every 10. By those criteria it should probably be replaced although it is complete and undamaged.

As for transport, if you have any ties to the rowing community, you might be able to hitch a ride on a boat trailer for a small donation. Long rowing shells travel up and down the east coast (and across the country) on a regular basis. The mast wouldn't really take up any more room.

Good luck.

_________________
BobC
Citrus Springs, Florida
Try not to get trapped with C rated cheaper rubber and painted wheels. Maintain the max rated pressure summer (and winter if possible) for longest reliability. Do not park rubber on dirt long term.
Try to stay away from the cheaper Chinese tires, and make sure the mfr date of manufacture on each is less than 5 years old: learn to read the code for date.
After 5 years a reliable mfr will not replace a tire that comes apart and damages your trailer or boat itself. Most trailer tires are made in China, but there are good and bad ones.
Always carry a spare tire with the tools and jack to change it. Always Maintain your tires at full rated pressure, for longevity, and best handling.
Electric brakes are best for finer control and going down hills, but are not recommended for under water launches. Catch 22.
One of the more dangerous things on the highway is a trailer going down the road at highway speed, especially down hill, with too little tow vehicle in front of it.
When the panic event happens, and it will eventually, you will need the strong tow vehicle brakes, good handling, and good tires to help prevent a dangerous accident.
A tow vehicle that barely tows the rig at highway speed and gets 6 to 10 mpg is working too hard and overheating the transmission, and likely the tow vehicle brakes.
Think in terms of the guy in front of you at highway speed doing something that requires a panic swerve, or stop.
Be safe, be aware, and good luck.
Bob C
CD25 #239

[DaveR]

So you guys are replacing standing rigging every 5 to 10 years - regardless? what happens to the old stuff? there must be tons of it out there.
Whats that cost to replace with new?
Does this include the mast?

[DaveR]

This is a little off subject for this thread but I'm really wondering if anyone has run across this before. I'm also considering a CD 25D. I contacted the owner and , in part, received the following:

The boat has no structural issues of which I am aware of, but there is some cracking around the perimeter of the cockpit sole. The cockpit sole was completely ripped out and replaced when we bought the boat in 1999, but it cracked again and was repaired two years later. Unfortunately it cracked out again and the yard says it is a matter related to the original construction, but that it is nothing to worry about as the moisture meter readings do not detect any infiltration. I remain convinced there may be a fix, but will leave that to the new owner.

any thoughts?

[Carl Thunberg]

I'm not a rigger, but I am an authority on being a cheap old yankee (not of the pinstripe variety). If there is no sign of wear, corrosion, or frozen turnbuckles, and it holds tension, why would the average day sailor replace it? I guess it boils down to how you use your boat. If you plan on racing, or offshore passage making, by all means get the standing rigging inspected by a rigger, and follow their recommendations. For the rest of us, there are lots of other places to spend our money. To be clear, I'm not advocating neglecting your rigging, but an arbitrary timeline for replacing it seems, well. . . arbitrary. And, no, it does not include the mast.