Transmission failure..?

[zeida]

I own a 1982 CD-33 with a Universal Atomic #5424 and a Hurth transmission. This past Saturday I went out for a couple of hours of motoring. We started beautifully, with her doing 4.7 knots at 1700 rpm's. Unfurled the genny and we went up to 5.1 knots, engine still running. Twenty minutes into the trip, from one second to the next, with no obvious reason, the boat slowed down dramatically. Five minutes later we were drifting without any forward motion at all. Furled the genny, stopped the engine and went into the water to check about a possible fouled prop... nothing there. Started the engine again, which purred as it should, but the forward gear would produce no results whatsoever. Put her in reverse boat moved a little bit. I went into the engine well and looked as crew shifted gears, forward, neutral, reverse, again and again. The reverse gear seemed to engage better, but although the forward gear moved it did not seem right. The cables coming down from the steering ped looked fine, all connected where they should, the levers were moving, the coupling and rudder shaft were turning together both in forward and reverse, and still the boat would not move. We ended up needing a tow back to the marina. Today I'm going to open up the steering ped and check the gears there to eliminate possibilities. If not there, it is probably the transmission that has the problem. Has anybody had similar experiences? Can this transmission be fixed, rebuilt, or is it better to buy a new one? Are they still being made? Any comments urgently appreciated. Many thanks.
Zeida



zcecil@attglobal.net

[Chris Reinke]

Zeida - Sorry to say, but I have no clue what is wrong with your drive train. I can only offer a bit of information on transmission rebuilding. The Hurth transmissions had a single forged drive shaft, with a cast flange which attaches to your prop shaft. If the housing and main drive shaft are in good condition than it is usually less expensive to pull the transmission and rebuild it. If the housing or the main drive shaft are damaged, then a rebuilt/new is you most cost effective alternative. In either case, you will need to disconnect the shift cables and prop shaft, raise the aft end of the motor, remove the 8 or 10 bell housing bolts and remove the transmission by pulling it aft. Installation is same simple procedure but will require the engine/shaft to be aligned. If you are unfamiliar with the process you may wish to have a trained mechanic do some or all of the procedure.

I own a 1982 CD-33 with a Universal Atomic #5424 and a Hurth transmission. This past Saturday I went out for a couple of hours of motoring. We started beautifully, with her doing 4.7 knots at 1700 rpm's. Unfurled the genny and we went up to 5.1 knots, engine still running. Twenty minutes into the trip, from one second to the next, with no obvious reason, the boat slowed down dramatically. Five minutes later we were drifting without any forward motion at all. Furled the genny, stopped the engine and went into the water to check about a possible fouled prop... nothing there. Started the engine again, which purred as it should, but the forward gear would produce no results whatsoever. Put her in reverse boat moved a little bit. I went into the engine well and looked as crew shifted gears, forward, neutral, reverse, again and again. The reverse gear seemed to engage better, but although the forward gear moved it did not seem right. The cables coming down from the steering ped looked fine, all connected where they should, the levers were moving, the coupling and rudder shaft were turning together both in forward and reverse, and still the boat would not move. We ended up needing a tow back to the marina. Today I'm going to open up the steering ped and check the gears there to eliminate possibilities. If not there, it is probably the transmission that has the problem. Has anybody had similar experiences? Can this transmission be fixed, rebuilt, or is it better to buy a new one? Are they still being made? Any comments urgently appreciated. Many thanks.
Zeida

chris.reinke@transamerica.com

[Larry DeMers]

Something doesn't sound right here. Boat was not moving forward, yet the prop shaft was turning?

I have seen this before..on an Atomic 4 propelled sailboat. Problem was the transmissions clutch was out of adjustment, and slipping, so that while the prop did turn, it had no speed or power.

Does the CD33 have a clutch in the transmission housing? If so, they have a set of 'bands' that need periodic tightening. These act to couple the driven clutch with the prop shaft.

I would not waste time on the steering pedestal at this point. It is a problem getting the engines power to the prop. COncentrate on that area. make sure that the cable moves the gear shifter all of the way into position. Double check on the transmission for internal bands that need tightening.

Good Luck,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I own a 1982 CD-33 with a Universal Atomic #5424 and a Hurth transmission. This past Saturday I went out for a couple of hours of motoring. We started beautifully, with her doing 4.7 knots at 1700 rpm's. Unfurled the genny and we went up to 5.1 knots, engine still running. Twenty minutes into the trip, from one second to the next, with no obvious reason, the boat slowed down dramatically. Five minutes later we were drifting without any forward motion at all. Furled the genny, stopped the engine and went into the water to check about a possible fouled prop... nothing there. Started the engine again, which purred as it should, but the forward gear would produce no results whatsoever. Put her in reverse boat moved a little bit. I went into the engine well and looked as crew shifted gears, forward, neutral, reverse, again and again. The reverse gear seemed to engage better, but although the forward gear moved it did not seem right. The cables coming down from the steering ped looked fine, all connected where they should, the levers were moving, the coupling and rudder shaft were turning together both in forward and reverse, and still the boat would not move. We ended up needing a tow back to the marina. Today I'm going to open up the steering ped and check the gears there to eliminate possibilities. If not there, it is probably the transmission that has the problem. Has anybody had similar experiences? Can this transmission be fixed, rebuilt, or is it better to buy a new one? Are they still being made? Any comments urgently appreciated. Many thanks.
Zeida

demers@sgi.com

[Tom]

I own a 1982 CD-33 with a Universal Atomic #5424 and a Hurth transmission. This past Saturday I went out for a couple of hours of motoring. We started beautifully, with her doing 4.7 knots at 1700 rpm's. Unfurled the genny and we went up to 5.1 knots, engine still running. Twenty minutes into the trip, from one second to the next, with no obvious reason, the boat slowed down dramatically. Five minutes later we were drifting without any forward motion at all. Furled the genny, stopped the engine and went into the water to check about a possible fouled prop... nothing there. Started the engine again, which purred as it should, but the forward gear would produce no results whatsoever. Put her in reverse boat moved a little bit. I went into the engine well and looked as crew shifted gears, forward, neutral, reverse, again and again. The reverse gear seemed to engage better, but although the forward gear moved it did not seem right. The cables coming down from the steering ped looked fine, all connected where they should, the levers were moving, the coupling and rudder shaft were turning together both in forward and reverse, and still the boat would not move. We ended up needing a tow back to the marina. Today I'm going to open up the steering ped and check the gears there to eliminate possibilities. If not there, it is probably the transmission that has the problem. Has anybody had similar experiences? Can this transmission be fixed, rebuilt, or is it better to buy a new one? Are they still being made? Any comments urgently appreciated. Many thanks.
Zeida

Zeida, I have been through 3 transimissions in my CD 31. You didn't say which transmission you have but the chances are it's an HW50. What happens to these is this: There are a half dozen drive "plates" in these transmissions. These plates have a material something like brakes shoes on the surface. When you throw the shift lever forward the fork inside the transmission presses these plates together and they grab and start the prop shaft turning. As the years go by the surface of these plates wears off and they get slick. Usually the transmission starts jumping out of gear first and you have to shift back in. but it all goes bad pretty fast maybe in a month or so.

I've been through three trannys and have never seen the gears or bearings go bad so usually it's a matter of replacing these plates to fix it. They're not expensive but you have to pull the engine and transmission to get to them and that's a labor intensive (i.e. expensive) job. The parts are readily available because the Westerbeke and Perkins diesels use the same exact transmission. It's usually cheaper and faster to just put in a rebuilt transmission than to rebuild yours. A rebuilt transmission will run you around $ 2,500 installed, but it's all the cost of pulling the engine and everything. If you're up to it you can save the labor by doing it yourself which will knock about $ 1,500. off the cost. It's a simple and straighforward job (I've done it three times) just awkward to get to things and hard to see and all that.

There's a guy in Canada who will rebuilt them for about a third what it costs down here or will sell you a rebuilt one in exchange. If you're interested email me direct and I'll look up his information for you.

Needless to say once you get the new one in you have to align it carefully and then treat it with respect,i. e. you don't put it in gear and then jam the gas to it. You slowly bring it up to speed, and let it slow all the way down before shifting out of gear, do not leave it in forward gear when you're sailing with the motor off - this fries the plates faster than anything, make sure you're at a complete idle before sudenly snapping it in gear. You don't want to slowly engage it because this glazes the plates while they're turning but not totally engaged.

When you do the transmission, put in a new flex plate as well. This is the next most common thing to fail and they cost around $ 100 but you have to take the engine out to do it which you will be doing anyway to put in the transmission. Don't buy a cheap flex plate, you want the German one made by Sachs-Offenhouse or some name like that it's the good one.

Write me directly if you want more info. I've done this 3 times and have pictures of the parts and things.

Isn't this board great? Thanks, Walt!



TomCambria@mindspring.com

[Matt Cawthorne]

Zieda,
The previous posts are on the right track. At the end of an Atlantic crossing we had a transmission go bad. The prop would spin when the transmission was engaged, but very slowly. Without significant power being delivered to the prop the boat would not move. It was a delivery so we never followed up on what the problem was (good thing we had such good winds for the crossing). If your prop is spinning, just very slowly then the clutch plates are most likely the problem. BUT.... before you go through all of the work of removing the transmission you may just want to check and see if you have sheared the key off that keeps the prop from spinning on the shaft. If your shaft is spinning reasonably fast and the boat is not moving then this is a possibility.

Let us know what you learn.

Matt

I own a 1982 CD-33 with a Universal Atomic #5424 and a Hurth transmission. This past Saturday I went out for a couple of hours of motoring. We started beautifully, with her doing 4.7 knots at 1700 rpm's. Unfurled the genny and we went up to 5.1 knots, engine still running. Twenty minutes into the trip, from one second to the next, with no obvious reason, the boat slowed down dramatically. Five minutes later we were drifting without any forward motion at all. Furled the genny, stopped the engine and went into the water to check about a possible fouled prop... nothing there. Started the engine again, which purred as it should, but the forward gear would produce no results whatsoever. Put her in reverse boat moved a little bit. I went into the engine well and looked as crew shifted gears, forward, neutral, reverse, again and again. The reverse gear seemed to engage better, but although the forward gear moved it did not seem right. The cables coming down from the steering ped looked fine, all connected where they should, the levers were moving, the coupling and rudder shaft were turning together both in forward and reverse, and still the boat would not move. We ended up needing a tow back to the marina. Today I'm going to open up the steering ped and check the gears there to eliminate possibilities. If not there, it is probably the transmission that has the problem. Has anybody had similar experiences? Can this transmission be fixed, rebuilt, or is it better to buy a new one? Are they still being made? Any comments urgently appreciated. Many thanks.
Zeida

mcawthor@bellatlantic.net

[Bob]

I own a 1982 CD-33 with a Universal Atomic #5424 and a Hurth transmission. This past Saturday I went out for a couple of hours of motoring. We started beautifully, with her doing 4.7 knots at 1700 rpm's. Unfurled the genny and we went up to 5.1 knots, engine still running. Twenty minutes into the trip, from one second to the next, with no obvious reason, the boat slowed down dramatically. Five minutes later we were drifting without any forward motion at all. Furled the genny, stopped the engine and went into the water to check about a possible fouled prop... nothing there. Started the engine again, which purred as it should, but the forward gear would produce no results whatsoever. Put her in reverse boat moved a little bit. I went into the engine well and looked as crew shifted gears, forward, neutral, reverse, again and again. The reverse gear seemed to engage better, but although the forward gear moved it did not seem right. The cables coming down from the steering ped looked fine, all connected where they should, the levers were moving, the coupling and rudder shaft were turning together both in forward and reverse, and still the boat would not move. We ended up needing a tow back to the marina. Today I'm going to open up the steering ped and check the gears there to eliminate possibilities. If not there, it is probably the transmission that has the problem. Has anybody had similar experiences? Can this transmission be fixed, rebuilt, or is it better to buy a new one? Are they still being made? Any comments urgently appreciated. Many thanks.
Zeida

I removed the transmission from my CD-330 this morning. It is the second time I've done this, with this particular boat. It isn't a particularly pleasant job, but can be done with a few tools and a lot of patience. I first removed the coupling between the shaft and rear of the transmission. The next step is to remove the bell housing (to which the transmission is bolted to inside) from the rear of the engine. It helps to first remove the heat exchanger first. This helps in reaching the six bolts that hold the bell housing in place. The bottom two of which are a real !%#@*^%#!@ to get to. Once this is done, shift the transmission back and forth. This will allow you to move it to the rear and allow you to remove the housing and transmission. You can lift it right over the top of the engine. It isn't that heavy. The only way I could do all of the above, was to put a pad on top of the engine and lay over it to reach all the bolts.
I elected to take the whole shabang to a marine transmision shop here in Jacksonville, FL.. Lots of luck!
Bob Mc



raven@net-magic.net

[Catherine Monaghan]

Zeida,

Just in case you need them, there is a Hurth servicing distributor in Fort Lauderdale.

<a href="http://www.marinegears.com/index.html">Transmission Marine Inc.</a>
233 SW 33RD CT
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33335
954-467-1540, ext. 98
800-462-8848, ext. 98

And another in Pompano Beach:

<a href="http://www.transmissiondpot.com/">Transmission Depot, Inc.</a>
460 E. Copans Road
Pompano Beach, Florida 33064
Tel: (954)781-5500
Fax: (954)943-1090

Hope you'll be able to take care of it yourself. Good luck.

catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
<a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... lization's Home Page</a>

I own a 1982 CD-33 with a Universal Atomic #5424 and a Hurth transmission. This past Saturday I went out for a couple of hours of motoring. We started beautifully, with her doing 4.7 knots at 1700 rpm's. Unfurled the genny and we went up to 5.1 knots, engine still running. Twenty minutes into the trip, from one second to the next, with no obvious reason, the boat slowed down dramatically. Five minutes later we were drifting without any forward motion at all. Furled the genny, stopped the engine and went into the water to check about a possible fouled prop... nothing there. Started the engine again, which purred as it should, but the forward gear would produce no results whatsoever. Put her in reverse boat moved a little bit. I went into the engine well and looked as crew shifted gears, forward, neutral, reverse, again and again. The reverse gear seemed to engage better, but although the forward gear moved it did not seem right. The cables coming down from the steering ped looked fine, all connected where they should, the levers were moving, the coupling and rudder shaft were turning together both in forward and reverse, and still the boat would not move. We ended up needing a tow back to the marina. Today I'm going to open up the steering ped and check the gears there to eliminate possibilities. If not there, it is probably the transmission that has the problem. Has anybody had similar experiences? Can this transmission be fixed, rebuilt, or is it better to buy a new one? Are they still being made? Any comments urgently appreciated. Many thanks.
Zeida

catherine_monaghan@merck.com