Full Keel on the Great Lakes???

[Mike]

I am looking to purchase my first "real" sailboat. I own a capri 14.2 and crew on a J35. I am looking for a sailboat to daysail and overnight (weekend) on the Great Lakes. I have heard nothing but good things about CD's and I love the way they look on the water. I have been told, however, that a fin keel is a better design for Great Lake sailing: they are faster and more responsive, where as the full keel designs track better or in other words turn very slow. Any thoughts on this opinion? Also, what would be the best first CD boat to purchase for use on Lake Michigan? I am considering anything from the CD25 to the CD28. Any thoughts on these matters would be much appreciated. I would enjoy hearing from any Great Lake CD sailors about their experiences.

Thanks for your Help
Mike
Grand Haven, MI



mroberso@remc7.k12.mi.us

[Jim]

I am looking to purchase my first "real" sailboat. I own a capri 14.2 and crew on a J35. I am looking for a sailboat to daysail and overnight (weekend) on the Great Lakes. I have heard nothing but good things about CD's and I love the way they look on the water. I have been told, however, that a fin keel is a better design for Great Lake sailing: they are faster and more responsive, where as the full keel designs track better or in other words turn very slow. Any thoughts on this opinion? Also, what would be the best first CD boat to purchase for use on Lake Michigan? I am considering anything from the CD25 to the CD28. Any thoughts on these matters would be much appreciated. I would enjoy hearing from any Great Lake CD sailors about their experiences.

Thanks for your Help
Mike
Grand Haven, MI

I also have raced on J35s on Lake Michigan. A full keel boat is no match for a fin keel, but each have their advantages. After racing all weekend or all week, I like to relax, I don't want my drink spilled and I am not in a hurry anymore. I have had a Catalina 22 and a 27 I sold them when I started racing too much. I always liked the looks of a Cape Dory, But with racing I wanted only a small trailerable boat. I now own a Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender. This summer I hope to Sail down to Grand Haven, if I have time when not racing.



jpkey@dellnet.com

[Russell]

The Cape Dory keel is not really full, being cutaway forward, and ending short of the waterline aft. Some have described it as an elongated cruising keel with attached rudder. In any case, the boats turn plenty quickly, under power or sail. My Cape Dory 36 will turn circles in under two boat lengths.

There are some benefits to this style of keel. (1) The ballast is low, where it has the most benefit, and it is encapsulated, so you don't have to worry about keel bolts. (2) The rudder is well protected, and the encapsulated propellor is less likely to pick up a lobster trap or other line in the water. (3) You get a big, deep bilge.

There are also some drawbacks. (a) It doesn't steer well in reverse. (b) A lot of wetted surface hurts performance in light air. Compensate by carrying a large light-air sail.

Our boat DOES track well. Once I get the sails balanced, the boat will keep course with just the wheel-brake set. I think this is as much due to her balanced lines as to her keel.

[John M.]

I am looking to purchase my first "real" sailboat. I own a capri 14.2 and crew on a J35. I am looking for a sailboat to daysail and overnight (weekend) on the Great Lakes. I have heard nothing but good things about CD's and I love the way they look on the water. I have been told, however, that a fin keel is a better design for Great Lake sailing: they are faster and more responsive, where as the full keel designs track better or in other words turn very slow. Any thoughts on this opinion? Also, what would be the best first CD boat to purchase for use on Lake Michigan? I am considering anything from the CD25 to the CD28. Any thoughts on these matters would be much appreciated. I would enjoy hearing from any Great Lake CD sailors about their experiences.

Thanks for your Help
Mike
Grand Haven, MI

Hi Mike,

I sail/race on Lake Lanier, just NE of Atlanta. I own and sail a CD28, and regulary race aboard a Hunter 30. I have raced/crewed aboard J-22, C&C 33 for many years, plus various other boats. In the proper wind conditions and sail trim, I can solo my CD28 at 7+ knots easy. I have raced my CD28 a few times and have placed as high as 2nd, (high phrf/non-spin). There is a CD27 that races regulary on our lake and he does very well in his fleet. What I would say about a fin keel vs. a full keel, they tack DIFFERENTLY, I don't think slow is fair. I think that sailing on Lake Michigan in a Cape Dory would be better than a fin keel boat because a CD tracks better and is very responsive. I have sailed on both CD25 and CD28, both are terrific boats, YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH A CAPE DORY.

If I were you, I would find a CD owner there on Lake Michigan and invite my-self for a sail. If you cannot find a CD there, you are welcome to sail with me the next time you are in Atlanta.

JMHO

John & Nancy Martin
CD28 #346 Intrepid




johnmartin55@hotmail.com

[Bob Loewenstein]

I have been racing on various boats on Lake Michigan and Lake Geneva (an inland lake) for over 20 years. For the last 5 years I've been doing the Hook race on an Express 30, a racing cruiser. This race is about 200 nm and can last (depending on winds) over several nights. I find that I'm much more comfortable on our CD32 than the performance boats I've raced on. Of course we have alot of sail out when racing, and we don't try to set things for comfort, but I think the primary comfort level is set by the hull, keel type, displacement...all the things the CD have going for it.

When I finally decided to purchase a larger boat (up from a racing scow), I figured I'd get a performance boat for racing and looked at several, including a J27. But I found a really nice CD27 and stewed over performance vs 'full' keel, heavy displacement, etc. Decided on the CD27 and haven't looked back (or regretted my decision) since.

I have been told, however, that a fin keel is a better design for Great Lake sailing: they are faster and more responsive

I don't see how faster and more responsive apply to GL sailing than any other body of water. But If you are interested in racing and not cruising, I'd consider a performance boat. But for cruising, I'd sure go for a boat like a CD that handles well in heavier weather and is more forgiving (because it isn't as responsive as a performance boat).



rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu

[Mike]

Thanks for the information. I do not intend to race, I get enough of that on the J35. I am looking for a boat to weekend cruise, relax, and enjoy the wonder and beauty of the water. Therefore, a Cape Dory sounds perfect. Any thoughts on which boat would make the best first CD?


Mike



mroberso@remc7.k12.mi.us

[Larry DeMers]

Mike,

I sail a CD30 on Lake Superior, and we are based in the Apostle Islands, on Superior's south shore. We sail here and over most all of Superior from April thru November, hitting around 33 weekends on avg.

I would opt for the largest Cape Dory that you can afford to get involved with. Each model is built to the same LOA to beam ratios, which means that the interior room is the size of an average boat one size smaller than yours. If you get into a 28 now, maintain it well, and give her TLC when needed, you will have an excellent boat to sail wherever you want to without worry. The resale value of a 28 will hold well, protecting yor investment.

I have another friend that fell in love with our CD30, and decided to sell his Bucanneer and find a CD28, which he did this past summer. He's just having a ball with her, and he has a huge family of 4 kids and a sailing wife.

Regards,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~

I am looking to purchase my first "real" sailboat. I own a capri 14.2 and crew on a J35. I am looking for a sailboat to daysail and overnight (weekend) on the Great Lakes. I have heard nothing but good things about CD's and I love the way they look on the water. I have been told, however, that a fin keel is a better design for Great Lake sailing: they are faster and more responsive, where as the full keel designs track better or in other words turn very slow. Any thoughts on this opinion? Also, what would be the best first CD boat to purchase for use on Lake Michigan? I am considering anything from the CD25 to the CD28. Any thoughts on these matters would be much appreciated. I would enjoy hearing from any Great Lake CD sailors about their experiences.

Thanks for your Help
Mike
Grand Haven, MI

demers@sgi.com

[Steve Rossmoore]

I am looking to purchase my first "real" sailboat. I own a capri 14.2 and crew on a J35. I am looking for a sailboat to daysail and overnight (weekend) on the Great Lakes. I have heard nothing but good things about CD's and I love the way they look on the water. I have been told, however, that a fin keel is a better design for Great Lake sailing: they are faster and more responsive, where as the full keel designs track better or in other words turn very slow. Any thoughts on this opinion? Also, what would be the best first CD boat to purchase for use on Lake Michigan? I am considering anything from the CD25 to the CD28. Any thoughts on these matters would be much appreciated. I would enjoy hearing from any Great Lake CD sailors about their experiences.

Thanks for your Help
Mike
Grand Haven, MI

I have sailed a CD 27 for 15 years on Lake St.Clair. I sold her and trucked a CD 36 from the east coast, and sailed her for 4 years, until finances and health drove me to a smaller size. Back to another CD 27. I have read that these two, especially the 27 are Carl Alberg's best designs. The 27 is well known for her sailing characteristics.For ease of handling, nothing tops her. Also, headroom is about 5'9-10". The 25 is small, and the 28 has a disadvantage for any coastal/day sailing vessel which is the inner forstay. I had one on my 36. It is great for performance and power, but a pain for tacking. All and all, I think the 27 is the best value for the buck. If you are looking, my original 1981 CD 27 may be available from a friend.

Steve Rossmoore
Wanderer CD27 #5



s_rossmoore@compuserve.com

[Neil Gordon]

>>... and the 28 has a disadvantage for any coastal/day sailing vessel which is the inner forstay.<<

What inner forestay?

I have a furler on the forestay... and a detatchable inner I use with the hank on self-tending jib. When it's detatched, which is most of the time, what's the issue?


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Steve Rossmoore]

>>... and the 28 has a disadvantage for any coastal/day sailing vessel which is the inner forstay.<<

What inner forestay?

I have a furler on the forestay... and a detatchable inner I use with the hank on self-tending jib. When it's detatched, which is most of the time, what's the issue?


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167

Tacking if the self tending jib inner forestay was attached, it made day sailing a little more work on my 36 than my 27. I did not mean to raise any other issue. Thanks for your comment.

Steve

[Peg L]

I am looking to purchase my first "real" sailboat. I own a capri 14.2 and crew on a J35. I am looking for a sailboat to daysail and overnight (weekend) on the Great Lakes. I have heard nothing but good things about CD's and I love the way they look on the water. I have been told, however, that a fin keel is a better design for Great Lake sailing: they are faster and more responsive, where as the full keel designs track better or in other words turn very slow. Any thoughts on this opinion? Also, what would be the best first CD boat to purchase for use on Lake Michigan? I am considering anything from the CD25 to the CD28. Any thoughts on these matters would be much appreciated. I would enjoy hearing from any Great Lake CD sailors about their experiences.

Thanks for your Help
Mike
Grand Haven, MI

Hi Mike
I just saw your message about a CD on the great lakes. We have a 1975 CD 25 and I also crew on a Shark during our club races. We sail Lake Erie which is very shallow compared to some of the Lakes. When we sailed out of the Buffalo Harbor, "Sans Souci" did not like the choppy, short wave lengths at all. We moved her about 10 miles away into deeper water where there are rollers instead of chop and she sails very well. She is a bit of "overkill" for the lakes but if a storm comes up, which they do very quickly on Erie, it's definately the boat you want to be in! When she was in Newport, she was the only boat on her mooring the morning after a hurricane came through several years ago. So that speaks for seaworthyness.

My Cape Dory, like many others does respond slowly but once you've sailed one for a year, you learn to anticipate without even thinking. It certainly doesn't respond like a Shark, and I would be hard put to think about racing her in PHRF. But, for a family weekend cruiser, she's great. And, people do walk by her at the dock and talk about what a beautiful boat she is. Cape Dorys are classic!

Now, if you're looking for a racer/cruiser, a Shark is incredible. The heavier the weather, the better they handle. They turn on a dime and you can steer one with your fingertips in 15 knot winds. (a little exageration there.) There are many Sharks available on the second hand market. One place you might look is on the Canadian Shark Association Web Site: www.Shark24.org A shark is about the same length as the CD 25 but with a much narrower beam. Two can sleep comfortably, and there's a sink and head. Not much more. Of course, a shark racer has everything pulled out except the sink so if you do consider a Shark, mak sure she's got all her "working parts" below.

Good luck in your search. Don't buy too small! I wish we had a 30+
Peg



sailpablo@aol.com