Line sizes - CD-36

[mashenden]

I'm at the tail end of replacing all of the running rigging. I sure wish I had done this at the beginning so I could remember what I did .

If anything strikes a CD-36 expert as incorrect, please feel free to post your experience.

Line sizes:

• Main:
• Halyard = 90' of 1/2" - I went with Braided Sta-Set X (less stretch but very difficult to splice eyes etc. Probably would not use again for that reason)
• Main Sheet = 85' of 7/16" - I went with Single Braided (softer on the hands)
• Topping Lift = 26' of 1/4"

• Genoa/Foresail/Yankee:
• Halyard = 100' of 1/2" - I went with 10mm Braided Sta-Set X (less stretch, but a pain to finish)
• Jib Sheet = TBD (Any suggestions? What I have on there seems too heavy. Not furling very neat even with tension)
• Roller Furler/Furling = 75' of 5/16" - I went with Braided Sta-Set X despite my past issues since I did not need to put a splice in of any kind (I tried 3/8" and it would not fit on the drum when unfurling, and I was not interested in removing the core)

• Staysail/Aft Jib:
• Halyard = TBD (Not sure yet)
• Jib Sheets = 60' of 7/16" - I went with Single Braided (softer on the hands)
• Roller Furler/Furling = 65' of 5/16" - I went with 8mm Braided Sta-Set (FYI, 3/8" did not fit this one either)
• Topping Lift = TBD

• Spinnaker:
• Halyard = ?' of 1/2" - I went with Double Braided (but I forget how much )
• Sheets = TBD

[bottomscraper]

Personally I think 1/2" is too fat for the main and yankee halyards although that is what the manual says. On Mahalo the 1/2" line was too wide for the sheaves and would bind in the mast head. Things worked much, much better with 7/16" line.

Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure of the diameter of our Yankee sheet but I suspect it is also 7/16" rather than the 1/2" specified in the manual. I believe our Staysail halyard is also 7/16".

[mashenden]

Personally I think 1/2" is too fat for the main and yankee halyards although that is what the manual says. On Mahalo the 1/2" line was too wide for the sheaves and would bind in the mast head. Things worked much, much better with 7/16" line.

Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure of the diameter of our Yankee sheet but I suspect it is also 7/16" rather than the 1/2" specified in the manual. I believe our Staysail halyard is also 7/16".

Very interesting. Ever since replacing the halyards I have not been able to get the Genny down (but the main is fine) - I even ran a line from the bottom of the sail through a block at deck level and then back to a winch with no luck. I plan a trip up the mast on the next calm day with low humidity/low temperatures to see why. Its either binding or my sheaves need replaced or the sail track is corroded.

Did that happen to you when yours was binding?

I believe my Yankee sheet is 1/2" as well (forgot to measure it), but it seems too heavy to me too.

[Jim Walsh]

On Mahalo the 1/2" line was too wide for the sheaves and would bind in the mast head. Things worked much, much better with 7/16" line.

I would be relentless in determining the root cause of the halyard binding in a masthead sheave.

Personally I think 1/2" is too fat for the main and yankee halyards although that is what the manual says. On Mahalo the 1/2" line was too wide for the sheaves and would bind in the mast head. Things worked much, much better with 7/16" line.

Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure of the diameter of our Yankee sheet but I suspect it is also 7/16" rather than the 1/2" specified in the manual. I believe our Staysail halyard is also 7/16".

Very interesting. Ever since replacing the halyards I have not been able to get the Genny down (but the main is fine) - I even ran a line from the bottom of the sail through a block at deck level and then back to a winch with no luck. I plan a trip up the mast on the next calm day with low humidity/low temperatures to see why.

It's possible your foil is damaged i.e. bent or crimped.

[bottomscraper]

Yes we had problems with the Main getting stuck although we were always able to get it down with enough persuasion. We had installed that new 1/2" halyard in the spring. We unstep our mast every year. I was able to test it on the ground when the mast was down and see where it was binding. We did not have problems with the Yankee but when that was replaced we had already discovered the problem with the main so we used 7/16" line. I wonder if part of the problem may be that the actual new line wasn't really 1/2" but rather slightly bigger 13mm. I don't remember what brand the fat line was, maybe Samson XLS or NE Ropes Sta-Set. I'm certain it was not StaSetX.

Another problem we had was splices getting jammed in the halyard sheaves. We don't have splices on our halyards anymore, just buntline hitches. Less splices to do and less problems!

[Jim Walsh]

I'm at the tail end of replacing all of the running rigging. I sure wish I had done this at the beginning so I could remember what I did .

If anything strikes a CD-36 expert as incorrect, please feel free to post your experience.

Line sizes:

• Main:
• Halyard = 90' of 1/2" - I went with Braided Sta Set X (less stretch but very difficult to splice eyes etc. Probably would not use again for that reason)
• Main Sheet = 85' of 7/16" - I went with Single Braided (softer on the hands)
• Topping Lift = 26' of 1/4"

• Genoa/Foresail/Yankee:
• Halyard = 100' of 1/2" - I went with Braided Sta Set X (less stretch - too much of a pain to finish)
• Jib Sheet = TBD (Any suggestions? What I have on there seems too heavy. Not furling very neat even with tension)
• Roller Furler/Furling = 75' of 5/16" (I tried 3/8" and it would not fit on the drum when unfurling, and I was not interested in removing the core)

• Staysail/Aft Jib:
• Halyard = TBD (Not sure yet)
• Jib Sheets = 60' of 7/16" - I went with Single Braided (softer on the hands)
• Roller Furler/Furling = 65' of 5/16" (I went with 8mm Sta-Set - FYI, 3/8" did not fit this one either)
• Topping Lift = TBD

• Spinnaker:
• Halyard = ?' of 1/2" TBD (I went with Double Braided but I forget how much )
• Sheets = TBD

Amsteel Blue makes a great topping lift. You didn't mention it specifically but I presume you intend to use 1/4" 7X19. Also you have nothing to fear when removing the core (only that portion which gets wound around the drum) of a furling line. I've done it since 1978 and have never had a problem. I've never heard of anyone else having issues with it either. Binding or jammed furling lines become something someone else has to deal with.

[Jim Walsh]

Yes we had problems with the Main getting stuck although we were always able to get it down with enough persuasion. We had installed that new 1/2" halyard in the spring. We unstep our mast every year. I was able to test it on the ground when the mast was down and see where it was binding. We did not have problems with the Yankee but when that was replaced we had already discovered the problem with the main so we used 7/16" line. I wonder if part of the problem may be that the actual new line wasn't really 1/2" but rather slightly bigger 13mm. I don't remember what brand the fat line was, maybe Samson XLS or NE Ropes Sta-Set. I'm certain it was not StaSetX.

Another problem we had was splices getting jammed in the halyard sheaves. We don't have splices on our halyards anymore, just buntline hitches. Less splices to do and less problems!

My halyards and sheets are Samson XLS. I went with the diameters specified in the owners manual. I used 1/2" on my main sheet mostly to easily differentiate between my main and staysail sheets which lie side by side in the cockpit. They also have different color tracers but that doesn't cut it in the dark. The difference between 7/16" and 1/2" is dramatic. Certainly seems more than a mere 1/16". In the future I will not use 1/2" for my main sheet. I may just go with a solid color for the staysail or main sheet although I really don't care for solid colors.
All of my halyards were spliced (by me) and have never posed a problem or bound up on the sheaves, I may go with buntline hitches in the future just for kicks as long as no one tells the Commodore.

[mashenden]

Amsteel Blue makes a great topping lift. You didn't mention it specifically but I presume you intend to use 1/4" 7X19.

Regarding the topping lift, I am only replacing the line, not the wire part that connects from the top of the mast to the end of the boom. On mine at the lower end of the topping lift wire, there is a line that goes through a double purchase block system (gun) and then routes along the boom (port side) to a cleat nearer the mast (but still on the boom). I'll probably use a piece of 1/4" double braid that I have hanging around.

[mashenden]

It's possible your foil is damaged i.e. bent or crimped.

Yep, I am keeping that in mind, but my gut says that it seems less likely to damage a foil while it is on the boat. I am suspecting the new halyard is contributing since the problem occurred at the point that they were replaced, or the sheaves are messed up.

[John Stone]

My mast is 3 1/2' taller than a stock CD 36 with about 100 sq feet more working sail area between the jib and mainsail. I use 10mm Marlow pre-stretched double braid for all my halyards. I like it fine so far. My mainsheet is 1/2 stay set run through a 6:1 antal system with a jam cleat connected to a bridge deck mounted antal traveller. I love it. I don't know what the jib sheets are but they are fat. They feel like 9/16" to me. Very soft cover. Original to the boat I think. They are lovely to handle. I will probably use 7/16" for the staysail sheets (I don't have a club footed staysail) either sta-set or maybe even a vintage three-stand Dacron. Like Mr Walsh I eliminated the wire topping lift and went with 3/16" amsteel dyneema for the topping lift. I spliced the last 15' into a cover off of 5/16" sta set so I can cleat it off without it slipping. I eliminated the dead TL run to the 2:1 system you described. Instead I rigged it as a second main halyard that terminates at the end of the boom and runs up to he masthead sheave and down the inside of the mast to an exit box on the port side to a winch it shares with the primary jib halyard.

[mashenden]

...Like Mr Walsh I eliminated the wire topping lift and went with 3/16" amsteel dyneema for the topping lift. ...

I did not look up the Amsteel topping lift to realize that it completely replaces the wire one. Interesting. Just curious, what was/were the motivating reason(s) for replacing the wire topping lift?

[John Stone]

Hi Matt
I had a couple reasons for replacing the wire TL with dyneema. 1. Less chafe on the mainsail. 2. I wanted the topping lift to serve as a backup emergency main halyard. The old wire TL was dead ended at the mast head. It could only serve as a TL. The dyneema TL runs over the aft port sheave then down the inside of the mast and exits to a cleat aft of the primary jib halyard cleat. The 3/16" dyneema is stronger and has less stretch than the 10mm double braid I use for the main halyard. 3. I wanted to gain more experience with dyneema.

John

[mashenden]

Hi Matt
I had a couple reasons for replacing the wire TL with dyneema. 1. Less chafe on the mainsail. 2. I wanted the topping lift to serve as a backup emergency main halyard. The old wire TL was dead ended at the mast head. It could only serve as a TL. The dyneema TL runs over the aft port sheave then down the inside of the mast and exits to a cleat aft of the primary jib halyard cleat. The 3/16" dyneema is stronger and has less stretch than the 10mm double braid I use for the main halyard. 3. I wanted to gain more experience with dyneema.

John

Good info - that Dyneema stuff must be super strong. I'll have to keep this in mind for future changes.

I don't think you mentioned it (sorry if I missed it) but how long have you had it this way? Has it worked well - ie no problems with it being too small of a dia for the sheaves?

[John Stone]

Matt
Just rigged it about two weeks ago. I have no reason to think it will not work well. My only interest at this point is how long will the dyneema hold up UV wise. I have read all kinds of info on that and it's all over the map. I'd like for it to last for five years. But I don't even know what that means. Does that mean it's breaking strength has diminished by 50 percent or that it breaks under moderate loads. And how do you know unless you pull test it? This is one of the main reasons I went with wire standing rigging vice dynes dux. No one could tell me what the inspection protocol was in a manner that was meaningful. With wire, you can see rust or broken strands. There is something to inspect and to observe. With dyneema or dux (heat treated dyneema) I don't have enough experience with it to interpret what I can see.

John

P.S. You can also rig the dyneema topping lift the same way as it is probably rigged on your boat now--terminated at the top and run to a 2:1 block on the end of the boom, cleated off near the gooseneck.

[Steve Laume]

P.S. You can also rig the dyneema topping lift the same way as it is probably rigged on your boat now--terminated at the top and run to a 2:1 block on the end of the boom, cleated off near the gooseneck.

That is exactly what I did on Raven about six years ago. It has stayed up through winter and summer since then with not apparent sign of weakness. I was standing on the end of the boom earlier this year and it held my weight just fine. I like the small diameter and the fact that it is easy on the mainsail leach.

The only problem I have had with it is that it would hum when tensioned up with the sails down. It was making me crazy. It was loudest down below and it took me a while to figure out where the sound was coming from. It didn't even have to be very windy to make it happen. I fixed it by tying three or four pieces of short line to it as high up as I could reach, while standing on the boom. It works just like the wiskers that they use to silence bow strings on hunting bows.

The best thing about itis that it is a joy to splice, Steve.