CD30 Beta Repower

[Maine_Buzzard]

Midway through the repower here, time to post pictures!

The old engine is out, and I'm working on the replacement beds and muffler pad.

Not trusting string and rulers, I went and machined up a mock shaft and laser diode to give me a reference line. The laser is centered and aligned inside the shaft. When spun on my lathe, it has only about 1/2" of error on a wall 30' away. Good enough for me...




I made up a mockup of the engine and transmission- The aluminum strip is the centerline of the V-drive. You can see the laser dot smearing along the length of the strip.


Empty Beds:


I made up pine mockups for the white oak wedges. Because I have made changes to the engine mounts, I need to fabricate my own. I'm topping them with 3/8" 416 Stainless steel from online metals. In the final setup, the engine will sit lower in the mounts.



Here's the rub- I need to move the mounts about 1/4" to port to have it aligned correctly. I always had trouble lining up the Volvo, and felt that it was out of alignment from before... You can see that the wedges are slightly offset from the beds.





I just shifted the starboard mount over 1/2" to match the spacing of the mounts. I've positioned the Beta mounts a little more forward to miss the old Volvo bolts. I'll be drilling several new holes and bolting/glassing the wedges to the beds.

Before that, I'll be making yet another mockup of the engine and trans, and a mockup of the boat/prop shaft to verify the alignment... Overkill, but I have time and want to do this only once.

Anyone ever see an offset like this before?

[moctrams]

I bought my Beta 722 from Ben Thomas out in Oregon and he furnished two stainless steel engine beds. Ben has a CD30C like mine and everything lined up perfectly. The yard people told me "this was the easiest engine replacement we have ever done", No hassle/ no hiccups.

[Maine_Buzzard]

Ben passed on some help with the project, and what I'm doing is partly based off of his dimensions. I went and relocated the bellhousing engine mounts 1" aft compared to the Beta's, so as to shorten the overhang of the stringers. (I'll also bed white oak blocks below the stringers.)

In looking at some older pictures, the entire section of hull on the starboard side has been cut away from the shaft log and replaced. There is copious amounts of bare fiberglass repairs, and you can even see a lump of filler starboard of the shaft log in the picture above.

I'll measure the outside tonight, but I expect that they replaced the log and got it straight, but offset from the centerline of the boat.

Custom stringers, here we go!

[Maine_Buzzard]

OK, so it's been a while... Just pulled the sails and boom, the barge will lower my mast on Wednesday.

The net result is that the engine dropped in beautifully, and the only problem was my not trusting that the stuffing box truly was off. Everything really did need to be moved over 1/4" to starboard.

In the end, it all aligns and is solid. I have about 20 hours on it now.

The other issue is that the vacuum breaker spits seawater and I've rusted two of the motor mounts. I'll pull them this winter and will clean things up.

I had to purchase a new engine control, because the old one would rev the engine before putting it in gear.

Some Pictures-



Biggest waterlift I could find.



Stringers Installed, fresh paint.



Mostly in, some more wiring left.

In the end, I launched in early August. 4 months, 150+ hours, and the decision to never do a sailboat repower again.

14 Hp in a 10,000 Lb. Boat?

2500 RPM, 4.5 kts

3000 RPM, 5.5 kts

3500 RPM, 6.0 kts

Very little vibration, a little noisier than the iron Volvo, and 3 hrs per gallon at 2500 cruise.

[Pegasus22]

Hello CD30 Sailors:
Contemplating a repower here and am interested to hear your thoughts on Beta 14hp versus 16 hp versus 20hp --if that one is even possible , given the glove-compartment-sized engine area. Any information on how to proceed will be helpful.
Thanks!
P22.

[Maine_Buzzard]

Welcome to the board! Please add your location to your profile, it helps some answers.
I had a great deal on the 14, and would have installed the 16 if I had not found this one.

For me, it's about the torque curve. The 14 and 16 produce peak torque at just about the hull speed for good cruising. The 20 will drive the CD30 at 5+ kts at 2000-2500 rpm.

This difference has been ably demonstrated between us and friends that installed a 20 in their ketch, and with similar three blade props with different pitch.

I'd rather have a diesel running at 3000 rpm for full cruising speed, and I am just under 6 kts there, then to have a larger engine luffing at a lower speed.

Some reasons- i don't motor for days on end. I daysail more, and have set things up to have a great weekender, rather than a cruising boat. The tiller on Guppy drives much of this choice.

We have no huge bars to cross, and the tidal currents are reasonable.

I have shore power, and no refrigeration or other big electrical loads. No need for a 70A alternator.

If any of the criteria are changed, I'd be looking at a 16 as a minimum.

Who's doing the work? A swap is possible to do, but here's my twisted logic...

Having done mine, I would be able to do another, and attack it with confidence (and finish much faster), but the amount of work required is daunting. Honestly, this likely the last repower I'll do on a boat I am using actively. One smarter plan would be to take one season off, and attack things like barrier coating or deck cracks after repowering.

[Pegasus22]

Hello Maine_Buzzard:
Thank you --nice to finally be here on the board as a CDSOA member. I appreciate your comments on the Beta repower. I am planning to have the work done this spring in Philadelphia by a boat-builder friend who has a facility here. Sounds as if the 16 hp will be ideal. Like you , we are planning to use the boat as a weekender/daysailer, rather than a long-distance cruiser; the idea of days of motoring on the hot, windless Chesapeake Bay does not exactly appeal.
Wondering about the current prop & shaft that are attached to the old MD-7A, and whether they would conform to the Beta 16. Did you use a new setup for the new motor? Also wondering if you were able to install your Beta with a conventional transmission, rather than a V-drive one? I suspect that a V-drive may still be necessary. Thank you for sharing the great photos of your install, which will really help. It is a daunting proposition , a repower, and I'm sure it will be quite a learning experience. Meanwhile, we are just waiting for the spring warm-up --if it ever gets here--to pull the engine and see what's what. Measure twice and cut once, I guess....
Anyway, thanks for the good info and I wish you all the best for the next season with your newly-repowered Guppy.
P22.

[Maine_Buzzard]

Sad to say, the entire drivetrain comes out when you remove the MD-7 and install a Beta. The Volvo driveshaft is about 2" too short for the Beta, and things like the throttle control and engine panel all need to be replaced.

The persistent and effusive application of money will address most repower problems.

The Walter and ZF V drives have a 5 degree difference between them, thus the wedged stringers. I went over the top with the stainless flat and oak beds, but I know that they will not tear out when you lift the boat by the engine...

Ben's stringers (OMI Marine) are a great idea, and can simplify the process of lining up the new engine and transmission.

My particular circumstance was that the shaft log had been replaced by a P.O. and was off to starboard by 1/4", which caused much confusion on my part.

I did keep the stuffing box, which I prefer to a modern Packless.

Rotation on the two engine/transmission combos is reversed. I went from a 2 blade 13x12 LH to a 3 blade 13x6 RH, and it's just about perfect. Much better backing, not much more drag.

A 16 HP Beta would be ideal for a weekend CD 30. Perhaps a 13x8 prop?

I would not suggest going to a conventional transmission, as the engine would move 20" forward and the rebuild cost would far exceed the cost difference for the V drive. Certain elements of the V installation are advantageous. Aligning the driveshaft and motor are easier, because you can see the gaps in the flanges. The engine has very good access and getting to the water pump is not that hard to do from the "back" of the engine. Everything else is pretty accessible from above and forward. That PVC offset funnel made for filling the MD-7 oil will still be useful. Love the oil change pump!

The exhaust is a difficult one for me. You can buy a high-rise elbow for $300+ from Beta, but with the muffler aft of the engine (in my photos) you still do not make the ABYC suggested 12" fall from the injection point to the inlet of the muffler. There is no way I know of to accomplish this, and the old Volvo had only about 6" between them. I went with a larger volume muffler and set the exhaust hose so it would have a fall just before the transom, to keep following seas from washing in easily. If I was planning for offshore, I'd add a valve to the exhaust line to prevent backfilling. (If it became a question underway, I would remove the hose at the elbow and verify that I had not filled the hose and exhaust.)

I still do not have the high rise elbow, but plan on adding one this spring.

Interest in purchasing the parted out MD-7 was non-existant. I saw little demand for spare internal Volvo parts. At the first hiccup, you should repower.

Oh- install a Vetus vented loop for the cooling water between the heat exchanger. Use the one with a vent line to a above waterline discharge. I used a crappy old bronze vent and now have to clean up a engine mount thread and one bracket which are now rusty. They burp seawater all the time.

[Pegasus22]

Hello again, Maine_Buzzard,
Thank you for more helpful hints on how to make this work. I will be discussing this with the installer soon ---if and when the endless snowcover on the East coast ever melts --and I think your experience and insight will really help. We are worried about access for engine maintenance/winterizing /repairs , but it sounds as if the Beta 16 is smaller than the MD-7A , and you answered my question about the shaft and v-drive and compatibility with the existing shaft and trans. As you indicate, the frequent application of hard-earned $ usually fixes things, so this is not something we enter into lightly. However, I think it has to be done, so we'll be looking over your photos and comments frequently , as the project begins.
Thanks again, and all the best. Please keep us posted on developments.
Pegasus22.

[gates_cliff]

After spending some time controted in the cockpit lockers I determined that some sort of access to the engine, shaft, shaft log, etc might be valuable. Now, I haven't done anything about this but wondered about the viability of installing a semi-flush hatch in the cockput sole. I've only daydreamt about it though and that's something that is pretty far down the pirority list.

Anyone ever done this or considered it? BTW, I got the idea from looking at Tim Lackey's site,

http://www.lackeysailing.com/northernya ... leted.html

[hilbert]

My cockpit sole had a 10" plastic inspection deck plate above the transmission.
While 10" may seem large, it was too restrictive to actually do anything that involved more than one arm, with limited visibility.

Unfortunately, the PO had installed the deck plate without sealing the edge with epoxy.
This contributed to the deterioration of the core and eventually water dripping on the engine.
When I fixed the cockpit sole, I filled it in.

Installing a hatch is also a low priority for me. If I ever proceed with it, I would consider using a good quality aluminum hatch, similar to what was used for this Triton:
http://www.triton381.com/projects/small ... thatch.htm

[Northoceanbeach]

What do you mean by this:
If I was planning for offshore, I'd add a valve to the exhaust line to prevent backfilling. (If it became a question underway, I would remove the hose at the elbow and verify that I had not filled the hose and exhaust

I'm planning to go offshore and have a beta, what woul I need to do?

[Maine_Buzzard]

I recall that Don Casey mentioned it in his book- I'll double check.

You can install a seacock on the exhaust flange, and close it when in big following seas, to prevent water from pumping back into the muffler.

Others may have succeeded, but I was unable to meet ABYC guidelines for the drop from the exhaust to the intake of the muffler (12"). Even with a high rise elbow, the best I can do is about 8-9".

I do have a big muffler, and the exhaust line rises to the edge of the cockpit hatch before dropping quickly to the through hull, so it is not a great fear for my cruising.

[Maine_Buzzard]

Correct on the This Old Boat description. He also mentions that an exhaust valve will be hard to get at and will cause problems if forgotten.

Look at the Vetus exhaust gooseneck risers that you can add at the exhaust flange. Having both a vertical drop and a big expansion volume, they would limit the amount of water pumped back into an exhaust line.

http://www.defender.com/pdf/vetusmufflerinfo.pdf

For offshore voyaging, this admiral thinks a high rise exhaust, a siphon break on the raw water into the exhaust, a waterlift muffler on the centerline aft the engine, and a gooseneck at the stern will keep all but the worst of it out.

If you should suspect seawater has backed into your engine, remove the hose at the exhaust flange and see if a tsunami pours out. If so, remove the glow plugs and turn the engine over with a socket on the crankshaft. (helps to know which way it normally turns). then bump the starter a few times, and blow vapor out the top for a minute. Change the oil, replace the glow plugs, and start it up. Run for a few minutes, and then look at the oil. Change it again if it's foamy white on the stick. Run for several hours, and change one more time.

And keep your siphon bucket on the cabin sole when you winterize, not on the cockpit deck or on the icebox... Below the normal waterline!! Don't ask.