I have a West Marine, 20 AMP, multi stage battery charger. I was actually planning to use it on my old boat batteries in the barn to charge the bank when running a generator. I noticed that my batteries were not charging so I checked the output and found that there is nothing.
The Charger has the West Marine name on it and assembled in Canada, on the back, in very large letters. Other than that there is no information as to who might have made the thing for them.
It also said there was a shock hazard in opening the case so of course I immediately took the cover off for a look inside. There was some pretty complex looking circuitry in there and also a few fuses. I looked for any obviously bad connections and checked all the fusses, which appeared to be okay. It also has some battery monitoring plugs for receiving input from the batteries. I have nothing hooked up to these.
So should this thing work with just the charging wires run to the batteries? If it does need servicing, where would I send it? I have very little background on the unit and no owner's manual. I also don't have a lot invested in it but it would be great if I could get it to work. I have not contacted West Marine and would really rather not if it could be serviced by someone else.
If I do need monitors then I suppose I need to contact WM and see if they are still available.
Thanks in advance for any wisdom you all could bestow upon me, Steve.
Battery charger
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Steve Laume
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Oswego John
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Generator
Hi Steve,
Many times, a perfectly good generator doesn't charge because of the field coils. They have to be re-excited again.
I suggest that you google "Generator Field Coils". There is lots of info there as well as directions on how to excite them.
If it uses them, check the condition of the brushes.
Good luck.
O J
Many times, a perfectly good generator doesn't charge because of the field coils. They have to be re-excited again.
I suggest that you google "Generator Field Coils". There is lots of info there as well as directions on how to excite them.
If it uses them, check the condition of the brushes.
Good luck.
O J
"If I rest, I rust"
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Neil Gordon
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Maine Sail
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Re: Battery charger
Steve,Steve Laume wrote:I have a West Marine, 20 AMP, multi stage battery charger. I was actually planning to use it on my old boat batteries in the barn to charge the bank when running a generator. I noticed that my batteries were not charging so I checked the output and found that there is nothing.
The Charger has the West Marine name on it and assembled in Canada, on the back, in very large letters. Other than that there is no information as to who might have made the thing for them.
It also said there was a shock hazard in opening the case so of course I immediately took the cover off for a look inside. There was some pretty complex looking circuitry in there and also a few fuses. I looked for any obviously bad connections and checked all the fusses, which appeared to be okay. It also has some battery monitoring plugs for receiving input from the batteries. I have nothing hooked up to these.
So should this thing work with just the charging wires run to the batteries? If it does need servicing, where would I send it? I have very little background on the unit and no owner's manual. I also don't have a lot invested in it but it would be great if I could get it to work. I have not contacted West Marine and would really rather not if it could be serviced by someone else.
If I do need monitors then I suppose I need to contact WM and see if they are still available.
Thanks in advance for any wisdom you all could bestow upon me, Steve.
Many chargers will not run correctly off a generator, especially the type used to power your house. Quality marine chargers are more tolerant of dirty power but the cheap ones usually are not.
Try plugging it into a wall outlet first and see what happens. If it works you have your answer. If not call WM and see what they can do. My guess is it's probably no longer supported as happens quickly these days...
If you're thinking of investing in an off season charger don't skimp and do get one that can equalize your batts, if wet cell or Lifeline...
If the "monitor" input is a remote display it may have been disconnected incorrectly and the charger still thinks it is being controlled by a remote that is not there. I have seen this happen before and the charger won't do anything until you plug the remote display back in..
Can you post a pic of the charger??
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Oswego John
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Good Point
Maine Sail, good point.
Another thing I thought about, check the info tag on the frame. Is it a generator or an alternator. What is the voltage output? This might be a long shot to check out.
Most chargers use house line viltage, maybe 120 Volts AC and transform it down to about 12 volts. Then the 12 volts AC is rectified to 12 Volts DC or optionally 6 Volts DC for charging.
If it should be a generator, it might be DC output. You can't transform DC for practical purposes. (Yes, there are rocket science things that can be done to be discussed another day.) Or you might have an alternator which produces AC.
Send a picture(s) to Maine Sail and maybe take it to a motor shop to have it looked at. Do you have a combo AC-DC multimeter to test it with? I'd be interested in reading what you find out.
Good luck,
O J
Another thing I thought about, check the info tag on the frame. Is it a generator or an alternator. What is the voltage output? This might be a long shot to check out.
Most chargers use house line viltage, maybe 120 Volts AC and transform it down to about 12 volts. Then the 12 volts AC is rectified to 12 Volts DC or optionally 6 Volts DC for charging.
If it should be a generator, it might be DC output. You can't transform DC for practical purposes. (Yes, there are rocket science things that can be done to be discussed another day.) Or you might have an alternator which produces AC.
Send a picture(s) to Maine Sail and maybe take it to a motor shop to have it looked at. Do you have a combo AC-DC multimeter to test it with? I'd be interested in reading what you find out.
Good luck,
O J
"If I rest, I rust"
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sloopjohnl
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A little of topic but relative...
Don't forget to check the water level in a lead plate, wet battery. Even those "maintenance free" models like my Sears Die Hard's sometimes (usually) have a removable fill cover. I just leveled off all my cells with water from our dehumidifier. Use distilled water not tap. It does make a difference.
Also your generator
Many of the smaller generators do not have the ground wired the same as in your house or pier. The ground is for the body of the unit only and not connected to the neutral. This may be confusing your charger which is wired to use on normal wiring where the ground and neutral meet somewhere in the circuit.
Also many of the small ones use an inverter to produce fairly clean AC. They use an alternator to make AC, then rectify it to DC and then the inverter to go back to AC. Perhaps convoluted but it makes for pretty clean AC power.
Also many of the small ones use an inverter to produce fairly clean AC. They use an alternator to make AC, then rectify it to DC and then the inverter to go back to AC. Perhaps convoluted but it makes for pretty clean AC power.
Jim Davis
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Steve Laume
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Ah, now I am beginning to understand.
It was not the fault of the charger but in fact it is the generator. I finally got both my multi meter and the battery charger in my shop. I hooked the thing up to a battery that was reading 12.6 volts and attached the charger. It then read 14.3! So it seems the charger is fine. The connection ports on the charger are for a temp monitor and a aux meter.
The generator I use at the barn is a Honda, 5000 watt unit. I run this into a small breaker panel and then to some outlets. The batteries I am using are the old AGMs from Raven so this is how all of this relates to Cape Dorys. I put together a complete 12 volt system for the barn so I can run 12 V lights without having to run the generator. I have always just brought the batteries back to the house for charging but thought it would pretty cool to be able to charge them whenever the generator was running.
All of this is mostly for the Christmas tree season. The barn is a couple of hundred yards from the house and has no grid supplied power. We run the generator in the evenings when we are making wreaths and then the battery system when we need lights and quiet, during the day. I thought I was being so clever in using a bunch of old boat stuff to make up the panel and battery meters. Everything does work pretty well but I might have to continue hoofing the batteries home to charge them.
At least I know the charger works. I could take it down to Raven and charge both of her batteries without running the engine during the winter when I have access to shore power. I don't think I would permanently mount it in the boat as we are on a mooring most of the time.
Is there any chance of being able to provide a proper ground to have it would off the generator?
You guys are great as I had never considered the power source and could only imagine the good deal I got on the charger wasn't all that good, Steve.
It was not the fault of the charger but in fact it is the generator. I finally got both my multi meter and the battery charger in my shop. I hooked the thing up to a battery that was reading 12.6 volts and attached the charger. It then read 14.3! So it seems the charger is fine. The connection ports on the charger are for a temp monitor and a aux meter.
The generator I use at the barn is a Honda, 5000 watt unit. I run this into a small breaker panel and then to some outlets. The batteries I am using are the old AGMs from Raven so this is how all of this relates to Cape Dorys. I put together a complete 12 volt system for the barn so I can run 12 V lights without having to run the generator. I have always just brought the batteries back to the house for charging but thought it would pretty cool to be able to charge them whenever the generator was running.
All of this is mostly for the Christmas tree season. The barn is a couple of hundred yards from the house and has no grid supplied power. We run the generator in the evenings when we are making wreaths and then the battery system when we need lights and quiet, during the day. I thought I was being so clever in using a bunch of old boat stuff to make up the panel and battery meters. Everything does work pretty well but I might have to continue hoofing the batteries home to charge them.
At least I know the charger works. I could take it down to Raven and charge both of her batteries without running the engine during the winter when I have access to shore power. I don't think I would permanently mount it in the boat as we are on a mooring most of the time.
Is there any chance of being able to provide a proper ground to have it would off the generator?
You guys are great as I had never considered the power source and could only imagine the good deal I got on the charger wasn't all that good, Steve.
From my own experience only
On land breaker panels the neutral and ground are tied to a common buss. Perhaps if yours is not done this way you could try it. It would also provide a ground for the generator assuming the panel is grounded. On my Honda EU2000i I made up a short cord that has the ground and neutral wired together to give me the ground and neutral together. The generator doesn't seem to care and my test light is happy. Before I did this the test light showed an open ground.
I make no warranty that any of this complies with any code, it is just that it works for me. I'm sure a professional electrician will tear hell out of it.
I make no warranty that any of this complies with any code, it is just that it works for me. I'm sure a professional electrician will tear hell out of it.
Jim Davis
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Maine Sail
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Re: From my own experience only
Many generators usually 120/240V, and all marine gen sets, have neutral and ground tied together inside the unit. On marine gen sets the green and white are tied together inside the unit because this is a new "source" of power and that meets the marine standards. A marine inverter is the same way, green and white tied together inside the unit. An isolation transformer is also considered another "source" so green and white are tied together inside the isolation transformer. Once the green and white wires leave a "source", on a boat, they are never to be tied together again on-board the vessel.Jim Davis wrote:On land breaker panels the neutral and ground are tied to a common buss. Perhaps if yours is not done this way you could try it. It would also provide a ground for the generator assuming the panel is grounded. On my Honda EU2000i I made up a short cord that has the ground and neutral wired together to give me the ground and neutral together. The generator doesn't seem to care and my test light is happy. Before I did this the test light showed an open ground.
I make no warranty that any of this complies with any code, it is just that it works for me. I'm sure a professional electrician will tear hell out of it.
The Eu series Honda's are not required to be internally bonded /white/green by the NEC due to the way they are configured. Remember these are not "marine" generators, and would not meet marine standards, despite people using them as such.
The Honda 5000 is probably a modified sine wave 120/240V generator and many chargers just won't run off this type of dirty power. The larger Honda's are also usually internally bonded green to white.
The EU Honda's, such as the EU 1000i, EU 2000i, EU 3000i etc. etc. will run a charger just fine as the power is pure sine wave not modified sine.
With battery chargers it has nothing to do with the ground/earth wire and everything to do with dirty power. I don't know of a battery charger that won't run with the green safety ground disconnected. It is there for safety only.
We have a Generac generator at home for power outages but we NEVER, EVER run our computers, TV, or other sensitive electronics off it because it is just dirty power. Heck even our fridge and boiler don't like it much. When we need electronics I fire up the EU 2000i for its clean power....