Rocna Anchors Situation

[Dean Abramson]

I bought a Rocna 15kg anchor from West Marine in the Spring. So far, it seems like a great anchor. But I have not yet used it any kind of strong weather conditions.

But today I got a postcard from West Marine which notifies Rocna buyers that the anchors were not made of the same grade of steel which was shown on Rocna's website, and in the West Marine catalog. The West Marine card says that the grade is "weaker." And the card directs you to a page on the Rocna website which is sort of a "Yes, But", and explains to the reader that this discrepancy really does not matter.

To WM's credit, they say that one can return the anchor.

What do other Rocna owners make of this?

Dean

[Dean Abramson]

Here is a link to the Rocna "West Marine Update."

http://www.rocna.com/WMupdate

[tartansailor]

Enough said.
Get your money back, and thank West Marine for their integrity.
There are a lot of appropriate anchors made in the USA that
would serve you just as well, if not better.

Dick

[Sea Hunt Video]

Dean:

I do not own a Rocna. My new-to-me CD 25D currently has a Danforth. That is also what I used on my Ty Weekender.

I read somewhere that some (perhaps most) of the Rocna anchors are made from inferior metal coming from China. I have tried searching my old magazines (Good Old Boat, Practical Sailor, SAIL, Cruising World, Ocean Navigator, etc.) but I cannot yet find the article I read.

I do remember some magazine did a detailed comparison of several different anchors, including Rocna and Manson. It is my recollection (fuzzy at best ) that the article preferred the Manson anchor to most others, including the Rocna.

I will continue to try to find the exact article.

There are also several cruiser type discussion boards that seem to also say that many Rocnas have inferior metal.

For what little it may be worth, if WM is willing to take it back with a full refund, that would be my recommendation.

[Markst95]

I love my fortress.

[Joe Myerson]

The bulletin board at http://www.sailfar.net ("Small Boats, Long Distances") has carried a thread called "Rocna failure" for quite a while. Apparently a number of cruisers have had their Rocna anchors bend or fail outright. The last entry in this thread (or at least the last one I read) makes reference to West Marine's recall.

It's easy to dump on West Marine as the "Evil Empire," etc., etc., but the company is certainly doing the right thing.

--Joe

P.S. While I don't use a Rocna, my primary anchor is a 22-lb. Lewmar Claw, which was also made in China. Considering that I bought it back in 2004, I'm hoping it is not made of inferior metal. At that time, this anchor was praised by Practical Sailor as one of the best buys in the marketplace. PS has since warned that the Lewmar Claw is subject to corrosion.

[Sea Hunt Video]

There is an article in Practical Sailor from December 2008 (yes, I know, almost 3 years old) evaluating the Manson Ray, the Manson Supreme and the Rocna. It is not the article I was thinking of but it does mention that Rocna anchors were made with "all-steel construction with high-tensile steel in the shank and a small slot for attaching the rode". The article states Rocna would shortly be offering a stainless steel version.

I am not sure but I think that is when the Rocna problems started - when they started acquiring metal for the stainless steel version. I believe the article I read (I will continue to search for it ) referenced a change in metals or alloys as problematic.

[MFC]

Hey Dean -

Keep in mind that the Rocna seems to fit the bow rollers better than the Manson. I just bought a 35' Manson Supreme and was very surprised that it did not fit the bow rollers on my 330 (the pin is too low for the wide (tall?) shank). The time / money I will spend to modify the 330 to accept the Manson is likely to far exceed the costs differential between it and a Rocna. Not really a reason to buy a Rocna, but perhaps reason think about not rushing to return it.

Best,
Matt

[Jim Evans]

I have a 35 lb Manson Supreme on my CD33 (no bowsprit, of course), and it fits very well. It's probably larger than I need for the Chesapeake, with 30 ft of chain and 250 ft of line, but I've not yet had to reset the anchor (knock on wood!).

[MFC]

I have a 35 lb Manson Supreme on my CD33 (no bowsprit, of course), and it fits very well.

Actually, when I was shopping, I looked at your use of the 35" Manson as a pretty good indication it would fit my boat . . .. The bow fitting on the 33 must have a higher clearance. Funny -- in a bitter, sardonic, not funny, sorta way. (we need a smiley face for that!)

I don't want to (continue to) hijack this thread, but if anyone has any suggestions for how to extend the hieght of the spartan bow fitting -- shoot me an email. Thanks.

Matt

[Carl Thunberg]

I'm not ready to jump to the conclusion that "inferior steel" is the cause of the failures that have been reported. All steel will yield if you exceed the yield stress. Stress is force per unit area. These failures could well be caused by a design flaw; namely that the shaft could be too slender. It's very easy to poke shots at China, but they may not be the cause of the problem. The anchors that have failed may have experienced stress in a different axis than any of the test results modeled. An example MIGHT be that the chain had fouled around the shaft, pulling from a different direction. We really don't know.

I'm not saying there actually is a design flaw, because I don't have access to the facts. I just want people to consider the possibility before stating opinion as fact.

[Dean Abramson]

Carl makes what to me is the salient point. That is, we really DO NOT KNOW if there is a significant problem with the anchor.

Interestingly, West Marine continues to sell the anchor. On the other hand, West Marine does not actually give its opinion on whether the anchor is sound. Some folks applaud WMs easy-return policy, but for a company whose web site and catalog contain scads of "Advisors," I would say that the silence is deafening. Perhaps WM will discontinue carrying Rocna anchors once the inventory gets low, and the print version of the catalog is ready to be re-done.

Check out WM's notice at:
http://content.westmarine.com/documents ... 8%2001.pdf
this pdf is identical to the postcard.
Referring to this situation simply as, and I quote, "a bummer," is pathetic, unprofessional, and breathtakingly unenlightening.

To sum up:
1) I have what seems to be a great anchor. I have had to give it a nudge with the boat's engine every time I have tried to raise it. The sucker really plants itself. It fits on my bowsprit really nicely, and I made a custom shank-holder for it and installed it on the sprit. The anchor shows no signs of defects. And only a few months ago, if you went to almost any sailing web forum, people were lining up to praise the anchor, even after they began being built in China. Finally, it is fashionably knee-jerk to say that China=Bad; but in reality I (and many others) know as little about China as I do about metallurgy.
2) On the one hand, WM's lawyers seem to be telling them to offer a no-questions-asked return of the anchors. On the other hand, they continue to sell them, and the basic hype language still exists on the WM website.
3) Rocna says in effect, "it's a great anchor, and we have superlative XYZ Test Results; but what it's made of, and how, is our little secret."

Thanks, guys.

On another web forum, there is a photo of a Rocna with a badly twisted shank. But there is no explanation of how it got that way, where, what conditions, etc. I kind of doubt that Manson would somehow manage to use large toys to mangle a Rocna and let the photo drift off into the cyberworld, but, let's face it... the war between those two makes American politics look civil.

Carl, let's you and I take a tractor and some heavy chain and see if we can twist a Manson Supreme into a pretzel! I bet Rich and Melissa would donate theirs to science.

I don't know what I am going to do.

Dean

[Carl Thunberg]

combined with tractor pulling and destroying other people's property in the name of science? I'm in!

[M. R. Bober]

There is certainly a lot of back & forth on this subject. Were lesser steels used in some ROCNAs? Was their major detractor involved in obtaining the steel? Are the reported anchor failures real or fabricated?

From my vantage point West Marine has done the right thing to protect West Marine and its customers from possible damage claims. ROCNA is trying--as one might expect--to contain the bad publicity. Owners of the Chinese ROCNAs, including yours truly, need to make a serious decision.

Short of destructive testing how can anyone know if any of their equipment is as advertised and/or desired? For me, for now, the ROCNA stays on my bow roller. It has not been tested in hurricane conditions, but it sets quickly (and can be a beast to retrieve hand-over-hand) and has held in a few blows.

If I am killed--and the ship lost--because of an anchor failure, I made the wrong choice. Watch this space for developments.

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster, (in the land of pleasant living) VA

[JWSutcliffe]

I travel frequently in China and deal with metallurgical issues. In general, the problem with steel in China is more a question of the integrity of the material certifications, and not necessarily the material. There have been so many cases of Chinese steel alloys supplied with counterfeit material certifications that most U.S. aerospace-related companies specifically prohibit use of steel that is sourced from other than North America, western Europe or Japan.

In reading the Rocna statement, this seems to be the case. They are not saying that the steel used in manufacture of the subject anchors is bad - they are just saying it may not be as good as what they had previously claimed. I don't have a Rocna, so I don't have a horse in this race. However, my comment, for what it's worth, is this - do you have certification of material or strength on your anchor rode or chain? My attitude is that if the weather conditions are such that I have concern over the integrity of my anchoring components, I am going to be on shore and let my insurance carrier worry about the outcome.