Having never bought a boat before for more than $500, I find myself on the verge of buying a Typhoon for somewhere upwards of that sum - say in the range of $2,000 to $3,000. I have no idea what the customs are for this kind of transaction. Am I crazy to proceed without a survey? If the boat is drydocked, can I withhold full payment until I've gotten a chance to sail the thing? Any advice on these profundities or any other matter associated with buying a boat would be much appreciated.
Benjamin.Warnke@csh.org
buyer's protocol
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Larry DeMers
Re: buyer's protocol
It's kind of up to you on this. I would treat it with the same protocol that I use to buy much more expensive boats. Make an offer that is contingent on xxxx.... You can fill in virtually anything here. The owner then can come back and approve all that you have in contingency or he can dispute items that he believes excessive etc.
Typically, you would make it contingent on financing that is acceptable *to you* (important statement), a sea trial with acceptable results, and perhaps a survey that is acceptable to you. Do not do this on a lark though. You will have to put something down to hold the boat, and if the boat meets your criteria, then you are obligated to proceed with a search for financing. Usually you will see a "drop dead" term in the contract, during which you will look for financing. If the financing is unavailable for some reason, then the contract is null and void.
Hope this helps,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Typically, you would make it contingent on financing that is acceptable *to you* (important statement), a sea trial with acceptable results, and perhaps a survey that is acceptable to you. Do not do this on a lark though. You will have to put something down to hold the boat, and if the boat meets your criteria, then you are obligated to proceed with a search for financing. Usually you will see a "drop dead" term in the contract, during which you will look for financing. If the financing is unavailable for some reason, then the contract is null and void.
Hope this helps,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Having never bought a boat before for more than $500, I find myself on the verge of buying a Typhoon for somewhere upwards of that sum - say in the range of $2,000 to $3,000. I have no idea what the customs are for this kind of transaction. Am I crazy to proceed without a survey? If the boat is drydocked, can I withhold full payment until I've gotten a chance to sail the thing? Any advice on these profundities or any other matter associated with buying a boat would be much appreciated.
demers@sgi.com
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Chris Reinke
Check list
Benjamin - The decision to hire a marine surveyor will never be a bad one, even if it only provides you with some peace of mind. Prior to my purchase (CD330) my surveyor provided me a check list of items to look for when considering a purchase. I realize that some of the points may not be applicable but perhaps it will initiate some additional points for your consideration:
Some points to look at when surveying a used boat. This is a list which can help to identify future problem areas while giving the seller a feeling that you know what to look for. Minimally if the seller thinks you know what to look for they may be less likely to try and hide something:
Before you get underway:
- Inspect the interior. Are the accommodations appropriate for the type of sailing you intend to do.
- Stand in the galley and go through the motions of making a meal.
- Go up and down the companionway several times and try and determine how it would be under foul seas or the boat is heeled.
- Is the navigation station within voice communication of the helm?
- Note the wiring. Everything should be neat and in clearly labeled bundles.
- Note how easy the seacocks are to access if you needed to close them during an emergency.
- Are the valves on the freshwater system easily accessed.
- Does enough extra space exist to add additional batteries if you plan an extended voyage.
- Check engine access for :
- fuel filter
- water filter
- oil filter
- drive belts and diesel injectors accessible for scheduled maintenance.
- shaft seals and packing
- Try and ascertain the alternator output. The rule of thumb is for alternator output to be 30-40% of the battery capacity in amp-hours. Otherwise it may take several hours to fully recharge your batteries while sitting at anchor.
Test Sail:
- Listen to the engine noise levels at the dock at both idle and high RPM’s. This will simulate the noise levels motoring underway and when charging the batteries at anchor. Listen to the levels from the cockpit, main salon and forward berth.
- As you get underway - be active. Is it easy to move about the deck?
- Do sheets hang up on cleats or foul on winches?
- Are the halyards easy to store or are they just dropped down the companionway?
- Sit and stand in a variety of places to estimate the ease of performing tasks.
- Concentrate on how the boat feels and disregard the instruments.
- Try several quick tacks while pointing high to ascertain how well she would progress in a narrow channel.
- Could you easily handle quick tacks if sailing solo?
- When you walk the foredeck note the location and convenience of hand holds and lifelines.
- Be sure to turn to windward and also gybe.
- After dropping the sails see how she handles under power. Operate at a slow docking speed, moderate maximum cruising range speed and high speed.
- Pick a reference point such as a buoy and point directly towards it while traveling at a moderate rate of speed. Shift the boat into reverse and notice how quickly she stops. Note any drifting to the side
Let the seller know what you are looking at as you go about the survey. Keep a note pad of these items with space to record your findings. A tape recorder or video camera can help recalling details after you get back home.
Chris.reinke@transamerica.com
Some points to look at when surveying a used boat. This is a list which can help to identify future problem areas while giving the seller a feeling that you know what to look for. Minimally if the seller thinks you know what to look for they may be less likely to try and hide something:
Before you get underway:
- Inspect the interior. Are the accommodations appropriate for the type of sailing you intend to do.
- Stand in the galley and go through the motions of making a meal.
- Go up and down the companionway several times and try and determine how it would be under foul seas or the boat is heeled.
- Is the navigation station within voice communication of the helm?
- Note the wiring. Everything should be neat and in clearly labeled bundles.
- Note how easy the seacocks are to access if you needed to close them during an emergency.
- Are the valves on the freshwater system easily accessed.
- Does enough extra space exist to add additional batteries if you plan an extended voyage.
- Check engine access for :
- fuel filter
- water filter
- oil filter
- drive belts and diesel injectors accessible for scheduled maintenance.
- shaft seals and packing
- Try and ascertain the alternator output. The rule of thumb is for alternator output to be 30-40% of the battery capacity in amp-hours. Otherwise it may take several hours to fully recharge your batteries while sitting at anchor.
Test Sail:
- Listen to the engine noise levels at the dock at both idle and high RPM’s. This will simulate the noise levels motoring underway and when charging the batteries at anchor. Listen to the levels from the cockpit, main salon and forward berth.
- As you get underway - be active. Is it easy to move about the deck?
- Do sheets hang up on cleats or foul on winches?
- Are the halyards easy to store or are they just dropped down the companionway?
- Sit and stand in a variety of places to estimate the ease of performing tasks.
- Concentrate on how the boat feels and disregard the instruments.
- Try several quick tacks while pointing high to ascertain how well she would progress in a narrow channel.
- Could you easily handle quick tacks if sailing solo?
- When you walk the foredeck note the location and convenience of hand holds and lifelines.
- Be sure to turn to windward and also gybe.
- After dropping the sails see how she handles under power. Operate at a slow docking speed, moderate maximum cruising range speed and high speed.
- Pick a reference point such as a buoy and point directly towards it while traveling at a moderate rate of speed. Shift the boat into reverse and notice how quickly she stops. Note any drifting to the side
Let the seller know what you are looking at as you go about the survey. Keep a note pad of these items with space to record your findings. A tape recorder or video camera can help recalling details after you get back home.
Having never bought a boat before for more than $500, I find myself on the verge of buying a Typhoon for somewhere upwards of that sum - say in the range of $2,000 to $3,000. I have no idea what the customs are for this kind of transaction. Am I crazy to proceed without a survey? If the boat is drydocked, can I withhold full payment until I've gotten a chance to sail the thing? Any advice on these profundities or any other matter associated with buying a boat would be much appreciated.
Chris.reinke@transamerica.com
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Neil Gordon
Re: buyer's protocol
It's standard to buy a boat subject to a survey, sea trial, etc., acceptible to you (all contingencies should be acceptible to you, similar to Larry's comment) and including any and all equipment the current owner has. I'd contact a surveyor and ask what he'd charge. If there's not a lot of travel time, it wouldn't take all that long to survey a Typhoon and so won't cost that much. If nothing else, the peace of mind knowing the boat is seaworthy justifies the survey, but don't be surprised if even a boat in good condition doesn't get a list of things to be addressed. If you need help finding a surveyor, asking here might help.
Where will you be sailing?
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
Where will you be sailing?
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: buyer's protocol
Ben,
One of the things that I did before starting out to purchase a sailboat, was to purchase and read this book:
How to Buy the Best Sailboat, by Chuck Gustafson
In addition to that, we did exactly what the other posters have suggested, hired a surveyor and made a list of contingencies. (When we purchased our CD32 we even made it a condition of the sale that the owners commission the boat with us so that we'd know exactly what needed to be done and learn how to do it.)
Good luck and have fun selecting and purchasing the right boat -- a Cape Dory of course.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
One of the things that I did before starting out to purchase a sailboat, was to purchase and read this book:
How to Buy the Best Sailboat, by Chuck Gustafson
In addition to that, we did exactly what the other posters have suggested, hired a surveyor and made a list of contingencies. (When we purchased our CD32 we even made it a condition of the sale that the owners commission the boat with us so that we'd know exactly what needed to be done and learn how to do it.)
Good luck and have fun selecting and purchasing the right boat -- a Cape Dory of course.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay
Having never bought a boat before for more than $500, I find myself on the verge of buying a Typhoon for somewhere upwards of that sum - say in the range of $2,000 to $3,000. I have no idea what the customs are for this kind of transaction. Am I crazy to proceed without a survey? If the boat is drydocked, can I withhold full payment until I've gotten a chance to sail the thing? Any advice on these profundities or any other matter associated with buying a boat would be much appreciated.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com