Yes I know this subject has been beaten to death over the years, but the one question I cannot find an answer to in literally hundreds of comments over the years is, how effective the Factory installed Knees are at preventing cabin sag. My understanding is that CD came up with these much beefier, "Knees" to prevent the cabin sag problem from occuring. I also understand that at some point these, "Knees" became standard on new Ty's.
So here are the questions for all you thousands of current and former Ty owners.
1. What year did CD start installing these beefier knees on new Ty's?
2. ...and this is the really important question... Do they work? I'd like to hear comments from Ty owners who have these factory installed knees in the cabin. Did you still find yourselves installing compression posts to correct a sagging cabin? My Typhoon, an '81 has the beefier knees, and as far as I can tell, the cabin top is perfect with no sagging or deck cracks. The Knees seem to be working in my case.
Thank you in advance for the feedback and advice!
Do the factory installed "Knees" prevent cabin sag
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Shannon Murphy
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sep 4th, '09, 13:07
- Location: Typhoon Weekender, Milford CT.
-
Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Factory Installed Knees
Hi Shannon,
Shannon Murphy. Faith and begorrah, what a beautiful name for a colleen.
..... how effective the Factory installed Knees are at preventing cabin sag. My understanding is that CD came up with these much beefier, "Knees" to prevent the cabin sag problem from occuring. I also understand that at some point these, "Knees" became standard on new Ty's.
Ans: It is my belief that they are very effective.
So here are the questions for all you thousands of current and former Ty owners.
1. What year did CD start installing these beefier knees on new Ty's?
Ans: I, personally don't know when. For anyone to compile data for future reference, it is very helpful for boatowners to furnish the model number as well as the hull number and the year of manufacture, as you did. Then we can sort things out and come up with some definite answers.
2. ...and this is the really important question... Do they work? I'd like to hear comments from Ty owners who have these factory installed knees in the cabin.
Ans: They apparently do. I haven't heard of anything negative about them. I'm sorry, but I have never had the occasion to have to add bolt-on, after market supports. I do know of others who have the factory furnished built-in support. They never once hinted of any sag problems.
Did you still find yourselves installing compression posts to correct a sagging cabin?
Ans: I have installed a few (2 or 3) compression posts for others. I prefer a compression post rather than a bolt-on support arch. A direct vertical post, in my opinion, is much more effective than a span support. If it is properly designed, it can be removable when overnighting to create more space.
My Typhoon, an '81 has the beefier knees, and as far as I can tell, the cabin top is perfect with no sagging or deck cracks. The Knees seem to be working in my case.
Ans: More of my thoughts on the subject:
All of my Ty's masts are keel stepped. With this setup, there is hardly ever any cuddy roof sag. The sagging roof syndrome seemed to begin from the onset of the tabernacle type, folding mast mount.
Even so, I feel that the naval architects allowed for that change and the case for sagging roof tops was marginal. Mankind, being the species that he is, was/is of the mindset that he must tune his standing rigging as if he were tuning a guitar. Fine and dandy if a person was tweaking to the nth degree for winning the regatta cup. When you tune too severely, something's gotta give. The chainplates won't shred, the shrouds and stays won't part and the mast won't snap. Too tight standard rigging when subjected to normal to severe duty will drive the mast butt downward. That will result in a concave cuddy rooftop. The lowering of the mast butt will result in releasing some tension in the standing rigging and bring things back to where they should have started out in the initial tuning.
Properly tuned stays set and maintain proper mast rake. Shrouds, whether equipped with single or double spreaders, when symetrically tuned, do double duty in supporting and maintaining the mast perpendically to the hull centerline as well as preventing curvature or ess bends in the mast.
I'll go out on a narrow limb for saying this and probably get some flack for it but anyhoo,
"Under moderate conditions with sails normal for conditions at hand, I see no need to have additional mast support" (Remember, we're talking about CD Tys, now.)
I'm not saying not to install it if it will give you peace of mind. I think that the Ty is well designed and if not driven beyond normal conditions and the proper choice of sail combo to suit the conditions at hand and the the standing rigging isn't overly tuned, I would be confident that my Ty will get me home safely.
Happy birthday, USMC
I salute all veterans, past and present on Veterans Day.
God Bless You All,
O J
Shannon Murphy. Faith and begorrah, what a beautiful name for a colleen.
..... how effective the Factory installed Knees are at preventing cabin sag. My understanding is that CD came up with these much beefier, "Knees" to prevent the cabin sag problem from occuring. I also understand that at some point these, "Knees" became standard on new Ty's.
Ans: It is my belief that they are very effective.
So here are the questions for all you thousands of current and former Ty owners.
1. What year did CD start installing these beefier knees on new Ty's?
Ans: I, personally don't know when. For anyone to compile data for future reference, it is very helpful for boatowners to furnish the model number as well as the hull number and the year of manufacture, as you did. Then we can sort things out and come up with some definite answers.
2. ...and this is the really important question... Do they work? I'd like to hear comments from Ty owners who have these factory installed knees in the cabin.
Ans: They apparently do. I haven't heard of anything negative about them. I'm sorry, but I have never had the occasion to have to add bolt-on, after market supports. I do know of others who have the factory furnished built-in support. They never once hinted of any sag problems.
Did you still find yourselves installing compression posts to correct a sagging cabin?
Ans: I have installed a few (2 or 3) compression posts for others. I prefer a compression post rather than a bolt-on support arch. A direct vertical post, in my opinion, is much more effective than a span support. If it is properly designed, it can be removable when overnighting to create more space.
My Typhoon, an '81 has the beefier knees, and as far as I can tell, the cabin top is perfect with no sagging or deck cracks. The Knees seem to be working in my case.
Ans: More of my thoughts on the subject:
All of my Ty's masts are keel stepped. With this setup, there is hardly ever any cuddy roof sag. The sagging roof syndrome seemed to begin from the onset of the tabernacle type, folding mast mount.
Even so, I feel that the naval architects allowed for that change and the case for sagging roof tops was marginal. Mankind, being the species that he is, was/is of the mindset that he must tune his standing rigging as if he were tuning a guitar. Fine and dandy if a person was tweaking to the nth degree for winning the regatta cup. When you tune too severely, something's gotta give. The chainplates won't shred, the shrouds and stays won't part and the mast won't snap. Too tight standard rigging when subjected to normal to severe duty will drive the mast butt downward. That will result in a concave cuddy rooftop. The lowering of the mast butt will result in releasing some tension in the standing rigging and bring things back to where they should have started out in the initial tuning.
Properly tuned stays set and maintain proper mast rake. Shrouds, whether equipped with single or double spreaders, when symetrically tuned, do double duty in supporting and maintaining the mast perpendically to the hull centerline as well as preventing curvature or ess bends in the mast.
I'll go out on a narrow limb for saying this and probably get some flack for it but anyhoo,
"Under moderate conditions with sails normal for conditions at hand, I see no need to have additional mast support" (Remember, we're talking about CD Tys, now.)
I'm not saying not to install it if it will give you peace of mind. I think that the Ty is well designed and if not driven beyond normal conditions and the proper choice of sail combo to suit the conditions at hand and the the standing rigging isn't overly tuned, I would be confident that my Ty will get me home safely.
Happy birthday, USMC
I salute all veterans, past and present on Veterans Day.
God Bless You All,
O J
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
-
Shannon Murphy
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sep 4th, '09, 13:07
- Location: Typhoon Weekender, Milford CT.
Thanks for the detailed response. Like I said, so far we have not seen any signs of compression in the cabin top. We were out for a few hours yesterday in gusts to 25 and 3 footers on Long Island Sound. We did not reef the main, but only unfurled about half the Genoa. The boat performed flawlessly although we had to deploy the anchor to have any chance of eating our soup instead of wearing it when lunch time rolled around.
I am hoping that other Ty owners can give me similar feedback regarding the Knee's effectiveness. We have plans for a compression post, but would really rather not install one if we don't have to.
I am hoping that other Ty owners can give me similar feedback regarding the Knee's effectiveness. We have plans for a compression post, but would really rather not install one if we don't have to.