After lots of pacing around to get the lump out of my throat about spending money, I purchased a Sailrite LSZ-1 sewing machine and two kits. I have no experience sewing, so I'm starting with a tiller cover, then moving on to a drifter.
I realize that the drifter is a light air sail intended mainly for reaching and running. But it is hanked onto the forestay, so I wonder to what extent it will go to weather. I ordered the drifter kit cut in a tri-radial manner to minimize bias elongation. This may be unnecessary in a light air sail, but I want the sail to last a long time. (I've begun to imagine that "Puffin" will stay in the family.)
Any comments you have about drifters going to weather, tri-radial cut on a drifter, or sewing in general would be very welcome. Thanks.
Dave
sailmaking and canvas work, day one
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Drifter going to weather
Dave,
You can go to weather with a cruising drifter (1.25 oz nylon) up to about 4-5 knots apparent wind. They point higher than an asymetrical. Off the wind, you could carry it to about 12 knots. If you cut the clew high enough, you could sheet it through a boom-end block and back to a cleat on the mast when running for long periods of time. That way you wouldn't have to fool with a whisker pole.
I worked with Jim Grant, founder of Sailrite, back in the 70s. That's when he offered his sailmaking courses. I got through the journeyman level within a couple of years. It was a bear. He invited me up to his loft in Columbia City to cut a suit of Harris Trimaran sails--in January! My coffee froze in the morning on the loft floor (an old converted barn that wasn't very weather-tight!) But, I've been out of sailmaking for many years now.
I have the original Sailrite Sailmaker Brother LSZ1. About 25 pounds heavier than the newer machines and more under arm space. You get a workout lugging around a 75 pound machine. But it goes through 8-9 layers of 8.5 oz dacron patch material on a storm spitfire. Killer machine.
By the way, breathe easy. Sailrite is one of the top customer service companies in the country. Their machines and equipment are first class. Cruising sailors swear by them too! You have made an excellent investment.
If it were me, I'd cross-cut your drifter. It saves material and time. A little more stretch than a radial cut, but unless you're racing, that shouldn't be an issue.
Best - J
You can go to weather with a cruising drifter (1.25 oz nylon) up to about 4-5 knots apparent wind. They point higher than an asymetrical. Off the wind, you could carry it to about 12 knots. If you cut the clew high enough, you could sheet it through a boom-end block and back to a cleat on the mast when running for long periods of time. That way you wouldn't have to fool with a whisker pole.
I worked with Jim Grant, founder of Sailrite, back in the 70s. That's when he offered his sailmaking courses. I got through the journeyman level within a couple of years. It was a bear. He invited me up to his loft in Columbia City to cut a suit of Harris Trimaran sails--in January! My coffee froze in the morning on the loft floor (an old converted barn that wasn't very weather-tight!) But, I've been out of sailmaking for many years now.
I have the original Sailrite Sailmaker Brother LSZ1. About 25 pounds heavier than the newer machines and more under arm space. You get a workout lugging around a 75 pound machine. But it goes through 8-9 layers of 8.5 oz dacron patch material on a storm spitfire. Killer machine.
By the way, breathe easy. Sailrite is one of the top customer service companies in the country. Their machines and equipment are first class. Cruising sailors swear by them too! You have made an excellent investment.
If it were me, I'd cross-cut your drifter. It saves material and time. A little more stretch than a radial cut, but unless you're racing, that shouldn't be an issue.
Best - J
Drifter = lite genoa
HThanks J,
The Sailrite loft manager told me to think of the drifter as a big, light, genoa, rather than a reaching or running sail.
It's offered in .75 and 1.5 oz fabric. I'm tempted to use the 1.5.
Dave
The Sailrite loft manager told me to think of the drifter as a big, light, genoa, rather than a reaching or running sail.
It's offered in .75 and 1.5 oz fabric. I'm tempted to use the 1.5.
Dave
Dave-
That's what it is--a nylon 150% Genoa with a high clew. I believe it would be a good choice to go with the 1.5 oz cloth. More durable, less stretch, and you can carry it to weather in higher apparent wind (still, 5-6 knots apparent would be about as high as I'd be comfortable with--otherwise you risk blowing her out).
You only need a few light hanks to hold it to the forestay. Off the wind, you could unsnap the hanks and let it fly free.
J
That's what it is--a nylon 150% Genoa with a high clew. I believe it would be a good choice to go with the 1.5 oz cloth. More durable, less stretch, and you can carry it to weather in higher apparent wind (still, 5-6 knots apparent would be about as high as I'd be comfortable with--otherwise you risk blowing her out).
You only need a few light hanks to hold it to the forestay. Off the wind, you could unsnap the hanks and let it fly free.
J
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kerlandsen
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Sep 10th, '07, 15:06
- Location: Sea Sprite 28, Emma L. #13
Sewing in general
I went the other direction, from lots of sewing/tailoring to carpentry, plumbing, now fiberglass, etc. But it seemed a fairly easy transition, from one sort of joinery to another. It's just a matter of getting familiar with your tools and how your material behaves. So I'd recommend playing around with scrap fabric to sew a few straight seams, practice starting, stopping, possibly turning. Then the tiller cover sounds like an excellent first project.
I pressed Warren into service when I was mending the batten pockets on our mainsail. He did fine--and seemed to feel a lot more relaxed about it after I suggested he stop thinking of it as a "sewing machine" and start thinking of it as "a power tool for cloth construction"
Judith
I pressed Warren into service when I was mending the batten pockets on our mainsail. He did fine--and seemed to feel a lot more relaxed about it after I suggested he stop thinking of it as a "sewing machine" and start thinking of it as "a power tool for cloth construction"
Judith
To unpathed waters, undreamed shores.
The Winter’s Tale. Act iv. Sc. 4.
The Winter’s Tale. Act iv. Sc. 4.
crossing tacks
Hi Judith,
Thanks for that advice.
It sounds like you and I just crossed tacks. I did architectural woodworking for 23 years. Mainly I think, to support the woodworking/boatbuilding habit. Now, I don't have space for woodworking anymore, so I'm looking to sewing to take care of the creative work needs. And I like the looks of this tack. I have high hopes for sailmaking and canvas work.
Dave
Thanks for that advice.
It sounds like you and I just crossed tacks. I did architectural woodworking for 23 years. Mainly I think, to support the woodworking/boatbuilding habit. Now, I don't have space for woodworking anymore, so I'm looking to sewing to take care of the creative work needs. And I like the looks of this tack. I have high hopes for sailmaking and canvas work.
Dave
Hi Dave,
Paul here in Minnesota. You got a good plan. I sewed a jib and a mainsail for my Typhoon from Sailrite and agree that they have wonderful service and kit instructions so you cannot go wrong. I also think This Old Boat by Don Casey has an excellent section on sewing projects that is worth a read.
I have since sewed tool wraps, mainsail cover, weather cloths (gotta have them on Superior) and other projects that really add value to Femme. So sew away, knowing that if you get stuck you can always call Sailrite and figure your way out of the jam.
Your pride in ownership will increase exponentially.
Paul
Paul here in Minnesota. You got a good plan. I sewed a jib and a mainsail for my Typhoon from Sailrite and agree that they have wonderful service and kit instructions so you cannot go wrong. I also think This Old Boat by Don Casey has an excellent section on sewing projects that is worth a read.
I have since sewed tool wraps, mainsail cover, weather cloths (gotta have them on Superior) and other projects that really add value to Femme. So sew away, knowing that if you get stuck you can always call Sailrite and figure your way out of the jam.
Your pride in ownership will increase exponentially.
Paul
Hi Dave,
Paul here in Minnesota. You got a good plan. I sewed a jib and a mainsail for my Typhoon from Sailrite and agree that they have wonderful service and kit instructions so you cannot go wrong. I also think This Old Boat by Don Casey has an excellent section on sewing projects that is worth a read.
I have since sewed tool wraps, mainsail cover, weather cloths (gotta have them on Superior) and other projects that really add value to Femme. So sew away, knowing that if you get stuck you can always call Sailrite and figure your way out of the jam.
Your pride in ownership will increase exponentially.
Paul
Paul here in Minnesota. You got a good plan. I sewed a jib and a mainsail for my Typhoon from Sailrite and agree that they have wonderful service and kit instructions so you cannot go wrong. I also think This Old Boat by Don Casey has an excellent section on sewing projects that is worth a read.
I have since sewed tool wraps, mainsail cover, weather cloths (gotta have them on Superior) and other projects that really add value to Femme. So sew away, knowing that if you get stuck you can always call Sailrite and figure your way out of the jam.
Your pride in ownership will increase exponentially.
Paul
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Andy Denmark
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:38
,75 oz Ripstop nylon for the drifter
1.5 oz nylon is much too heavy for a light air drifter. The .75 oz will handle all the load you want to put on it and will fly in much lighter wind than the heavier material, besides you get better color choices with .75.
I suggest a true cruising spinnaker as opposed to a lightweight genoa. The downwind characteristics are much better and serve to fill in the gap in the polars that most Cape Dories have, i.e., works best at the wind angle where CD's are generally the slowest.
My $.02 worth..........
________
Ford Kuga Picture
I suggest a true cruising spinnaker as opposed to a lightweight genoa. The downwind characteristics are much better and serve to fill in the gap in the polars that most Cape Dories have, i.e., works best at the wind angle where CD's are generally the slowest.
My $.02 worth..........
________
Ford Kuga Picture
Last edited by Andy Denmark on Feb 13th, '11, 03:41, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Paul,
You're really right about the pride of ownership part. I've got all kinds of projects in mind, many not "necessary", but improvements I want to make. I'll look for the Casey book.
Hi Andy,
I always appreciate your .02 worth, on any topic. I already have a very light cruising asym spinnacker. I know it will go to weather somewhat, but I really prefer not to do that. I don't like the way sheeting in "hauls out" the foot. That sail is a classic. It's original, handmade be Thomas Clark of Essex, Conn. It's white, with a 7' puffin on it. So I baby it. I chose the drifter as a kindergarten project, and I want some light air windward capability. I think the 1.5 oz may help with the windward part.
Dave
You're really right about the pride of ownership part. I've got all kinds of projects in mind, many not "necessary", but improvements I want to make. I'll look for the Casey book.
Hi Andy,
I always appreciate your .02 worth, on any topic. I already have a very light cruising asym spinnacker. I know it will go to weather somewhat, but I really prefer not to do that. I don't like the way sheeting in "hauls out" the foot. That sail is a classic. It's original, handmade be Thomas Clark of Essex, Conn. It's white, with a 7' puffin on it. So I baby it. I chose the drifter as a kindergarten project, and I want some light air windward capability. I think the 1.5 oz may help with the windward part.
Dave
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kerlandsen
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Sep 10th, '07, 15:06
- Location: Sea Sprite 28, Emma L. #13
Thomas Clark
I have not heard that name in a long time.
I think my dad bought one sail in his lifetime, probably 1981. A mainsail for the Tartan 27, hull #2.
He came sailing with us once, we were all in amazement. Of course I was 11 years old at the time.
The Tartan needed sails in a big way.
Kyle
I think my dad bought one sail in his lifetime, probably 1981. A mainsail for the Tartan 27, hull #2.
He came sailing with us once, we were all in amazement. Of course I was 11 years old at the time.
The Tartan needed sails in a big way.
Kyle
Hi Dave,
You are going to love your new Sailrite LZ. I have one and it is great. I am getting, after some practice, pretty proficient at sail covers, tiller covers and the like. I have converted 2 hank-on headsails to roller furlers. One had to be cut down substantially. With Sailrite's video and some extra instructions from J2sailor, it was easy. Good luck in building a sail. I have not tried that yet.
You are going to love your new Sailrite LZ. I have one and it is great. I am getting, after some practice, pretty proficient at sail covers, tiller covers and the like. I have converted 2 hank-on headsails to roller furlers. One had to be cut down substantially. With Sailrite's video and some extra instructions from J2sailor, it was easy. Good luck in building a sail. I have not tried that yet.
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Andy Denmark
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:38
sheeting point
Dave,
Methinks that you may not need a new sail. If what I read from your "outhaul" description, the sheeting point needs to be moved forward. You'll be amazed at how much this affects the sail shape. Differently from a fore-and-aft sail, a spinnaker is flattened (max draft spread out) by taking the horizontal tension off the foot. My cruising chute goes to weather pretty well and sheets almost to the genoa track to do so (with a Barber hauler setup -- dead easy to do).
Too many people think that a spinnaker of any type always sheets as far aft as there is deck for the block. Not so at all, depending on sailing angle -- the further forward of the beam the further forward goes the sheet block (up to a point, of course).
Give this a try. I think you'll be surprised.
Hope this helps ............
I'd give this a try before investing in a new sail.
________
GM HIGH FEATURE ENGINE HISTORY
Methinks that you may not need a new sail. If what I read from your "outhaul" description, the sheeting point needs to be moved forward. You'll be amazed at how much this affects the sail shape. Differently from a fore-and-aft sail, a spinnaker is flattened (max draft spread out) by taking the horizontal tension off the foot. My cruising chute goes to weather pretty well and sheets almost to the genoa track to do so (with a Barber hauler setup -- dead easy to do).
Too many people think that a spinnaker of any type always sheets as far aft as there is deck for the block. Not so at all, depending on sailing angle -- the further forward of the beam the further forward goes the sheet block (up to a point, of course).
Give this a try. I think you'll be surprised.
Hope this helps ............
I'd give this a try before investing in a new sail.
________
GM HIGH FEATURE ENGINE HISTORY
Last edited by Andy Denmark on Feb 13th, '11, 03:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Bob Condon
- Posts: 56
- Joined: May 10th, '05, 12:18
- Location: 1979 Cape Dory 28' Intrepid
I love my SailRite!
I also purchased a Sailrite LSZ1 with a jib and a mainsail kit for a Compac 19" I also started with Tiller cover, clutch covers.
I now have boating friends that need seams fixed on dodgers through 8 layers of fabric calling me!
I have sewn for a long time but having a REALLY nice machine is truly a joy.
The folks at Sailrite were also fabulous!
Bob Condon
I now have boating friends that need seams fixed on dodgers through 8 layers of fabric calling me!
I have sewn for a long time but having a REALLY nice machine is truly a joy.
The folks at Sailrite were also fabulous!
Bob Condon
Bob Condon