Cape Dory Typhoon Hull #9 -- lost rudder

SusanQ · Post by **SusanQ** » Feb 19th, '09, 14:59

As my boat was being hauled this fall, the rudder broke off and was lost.Â Any suggestions on finding a replacement -- or how to locate specs for a new one -- would be appreciated.Â I love this boat and am just learning to sail her, so I don't want to miss any of the spring season, but would like to do it with a rudder.

Cathy Monaghan · Post by **Cathy Monaghan** » Feb 19th, '09, 16:16

Did they raise the rudder off the bottom? They should and then you can use the old one as a template for a new one -- or repair it.

SusanQ · Post by **SusanQ** » Feb 19th, '09, 16:49

No, it apparently is lost at sea.

Markst95 · Post by **Markst95** » Feb 19th, '09, 17:30

Can you be more specific on how it happened? Typhoon owners want to know...

SusanQ · Post by **SusanQ** » Feb 19th, '09, 17:50

As best as I can tell, when the yard brought the boat in and put it in the cradle (I think that's the right term) on the rails, it was resting partially on the rudder vs. entirely on the keel. It appears the weight snapped off the rudder.

It's not clear if the rudder had been damaged at some point in its long life, but was working fine up until it was put in the cradle. The yard will replace it, but I need to find somebody with (a) a spare rudder or (b) the specs so it can be replaced.

ronkberg · Post by **ronkberg** » Feb 19th, '09, 19:21

I have a 1984 Ty sitting on a trailer and pretty deep in snow. If you want to plan a visit to measure my rudder, I will accommodate. We can assume that the rudder design did not change but maybe it would be best for you to contact Robinhood Marine in Georgetown, ME to confirm.

Drop me a PM with your phone number and we can discuss a plan.

Ron

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Feb 20th, '09, 05:26

Hi Susan,

My best guess, in all likelihood is that you will have to have a new rudder blade built and installed on your existing rudder post.

Because of the low hull number, depending if your hull is a Weekender or an open boat, you old rudder blade was probably made of wood which was attached to a 3/4" bronze alloy rudder post.

Either you or somebody who is boatwise has to check to see if the post is bent and if there is any damage to the rear of the keel where the bottom of the rudder post seats in a metal cup, (gudgeon).

Don't be hard on yourself. Rudder blade separation from the post was a common failure in the earlier Ty models. If repaired correctly, it should be the last time that you will have this trouble.

If you don't make local arrangements, I have the template pattern and dimensions for a new blade. If you would like, I would be pleased to mail you the Ty rudder blade template.

Send me a PM and let me know if you want it. If so, I will need a USPS snail mail address where to send it.

Good luck,
O J

Cathy Monaghan · Post by **Cathy Monaghan** » Feb 20th, '09, 11:07

Geesh! It has to be on the bottom right at the end of the marine railway. They lost the rudder, they should at least try to retrieve it.

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » Feb 20th, '09, 12:42

Cathy, no one in Maine goes in the water unless they are pre teen and it is August.

Not for love nor rudders, Steve.

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Feb 20th, '09, 14:54

Steve:

I would respectfully disagree. The current water temp in Casco Bay is 38-39 degrees F. While not bath water, it is certainly diveable with an 1/4" wetsuit and hood or a drysuit.

I agree with Cathy M. If the boatyard lost her rudder, it seems reasonable they would at least make the effort to locate it. I am not familiar with depths, currents, tides, etc. in that particular area but I'm sure a local commercial dive op who is familiar could easily locate a large rudder in a small search field (10' x 10'

), regardless of visibility.

Susan would then have the exact correct measurements for making a new rudder, assuming she could not repair/reinstall the original.

Of course, OJ's templates are "spot on" as well and are the obvious "Plan B".

Jim Buck · Post by **Jim Buck** » Feb 20th, '09, 16:12

I know of a freshwater Ty that lost its rudder and was replaced with a stainless steel blade of the same silouhette. The gentleman had a machine shop cut the blade of the rudder from a template and then welded it to the rudder post. Appeared quite stout. FWIW

SusanQ · Post by **SusanQ** » Feb 20th, '09, 16:16

The yard made a half-hearted effort to locate the rudder, but claimed they couldn't find it, thinking maybe it was lost before the boat got into shallower water. (I'm not sure that's the case, but the yard promises to replace it and make me steerable again.)

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Feb 20th, '09, 16:19

Oswego John wrote: Because of the low hull number, depending if your hull is a Weekender or an open boat, you old rudder blade was probably made of wood which was attached to a 3/4" bronze alloy rudder post.

Before we go much farther (further?) along on the subject, let me add some more things to the discussion.

Susan's hull number is #9. If her boat is a Weekender, it is one of the first batch of Tys made back in the mid sixties. It was constructed by Naugus Fiberglass Industries before Cape Dory came into the ownership picture.

You should keep in mind that the early Ty rudder blades were made of wood, not fiberglass, as the newer ones are. Under normal circumstances, wood floats. I haven't the foggiest idea what the degree of buoyancy of her rudder blade was, based on the number of old coats of bottom paint, barnacles, grass, etc. I've never seen a blade that was waterlogged, though.

The early Ty rudder blades were made of three pieces of wood, usually teak. The original blades would now be between 40 and 45 years old. The three wooden pieces were joined edge to edge. Along with being fastened together with the glue that was available then, Naugus drilled holes fore to aft through the rudder post as well as holes through the matching edges of the three pieces of rudder blade stock.

Varying lengths, 10" to 12" of 1/4" and sometimes 5/16" bronze alloy machine screws and nuts held one piece of wood to the adjoining piece and then finally the whole blade to the rudder post. The entire torque produced by the tiller to the blade was transferred through this (in my estimation) rather light duty hardware.

Due to old age, metal fatigue and physical shock, these machine screws would part, exposing pink metal. When the screws helping hold the assembly together would snap, very often the three pieces of wooden blade stock would separate, float away, never to be seen again. And then again, the unit could be resting on the bottom at the base of the railway.

In any event, I, personally, would never attempt to, or advise anyone to reuse their old blade again. There are much better, sturdier methods today to update your steering system.

FWIW,
O J
We had another 12" last night and today. More coming.

SusanQ · Post by **SusanQ** » Feb 20th, '09, 16:58

It didn't float, alas. And I must admit, I didn't pay close enough attention to it to know of what it was constructed. I think there were three metal screws, one of which apparently had snapped at some previous time (according to the yard and my untrained eye).

Given the currents we have here in Casco Bay, it would seem wise to start anew with a new rudder and hardware.

Thanks one and all.

Markst95 · Post by **Markst95** » Feb 20th, '09, 18:21

Quite a few years ago I bought an Irwin 24 that had lost its rudder and post. The previous owner said it just let go outside of the slip he had kept it at. I went back almost a year later and dove in and found it sticking out of the mud in the exact spot he said. The rudder was still in good shape, the bottom bracket had just broke. It was in New Haven Harbor, CT in March. Not a fun place to be!

The Cape Dory Board

Cape Dory Typhoon Hull #9 -- lost rudder

Cape Dory Typhoon Hull #9 -- lost rudder

SusanQ, come to OOB, ME

Ty rudder