Main haylard location.

[doubleb]

Well hello all,
More newbee questions.
We have been cleaning and sanding on Brigitta, and we have taken her out a few times. Once with an experienced sailor. Who is one helluva nice guy by the way. Everyone should have friends like this. We met him thru someone on this site.

Well back to my question.
We could not get the main all the way up. We really tried. My best guess it stopped about 12 to 18 inches from the top,
I believe in the do not force it rule. It will break.
After looking up the mast for a while it was noticed that the main halyard was off center to the sail track to the starboard side. The jib was in the center.
So I switched them.
Now the main halyard hangs in the center of the mast / aft and cleats port. And the jib is Starboard slightly off center.
Now there is no problem getting the Main all the way up. I have not tried the jib yet.

Is this wrong?
I guess if all else fails ask somebody.

Thanks
Brian and Shane

[Neil Gordon]

Convention suggests that the main halyard is cleated on the starboard side and the jib is cleated to port. That way, any "old salt" will know which line is which without labels and without asking.

[Steve Laume]

Silly question, but did you look, carefully, to see that all the leads were fair. It is really easy to get a halyard going around a spreader the wrong way so as things start to get tight, it will not move.

Yup, main on the port side seems backwards, Steve.

[Warren Kaplan]

The convention is the main halyard on the starboard side. Yet I just finished sailing on a Moorings charter in the BVI a month ago and the main halyard was on the port side. I don't know if that's because the Moorings boats are all fitted with Doyle Stackpacks along with the lazyjacks.

By the way, if your main isn't hoisting all the way to the top of the mast just make sure that all your reefing lines are not snugged down but instead are loosened so the sail can be fully hoisted.

Every once in a while I forget to loosen up my reefing lines after sailing on a blustery day and the next day sailing I realize that because I can't hoist the sail to the masthead.

[Ron Brassord]

I was having the same trouble getting the main up without a struggle, and found I had done a dumb thing. The jib halyard knot was not tied right, and was binding the sheaves in the mast head when tensioned. I thought I had a frozen sheave pulley. By accident, I dropped the jib, and the main went to the top with ease. I retied the jib halyard close to the jib head, tensioned it and all is well.
I hate to tell you how many years I have been sailing and still so dumb. Ron B

[doubleb]

OK lets forget which side of the main I cleat the halyards.
but if Port = Main & Starboard = jib OK.

Looking up the mast, should the main halyard be centered with the center of the mast? (lift main straight up)
And the jib is to the starboard side.

The way it was, it appeared the main was in a bind due to the fact the halyard was pulling off center. the closer it got to the top.

[Warren Kaplan]

I take it the halyard has not been displaced to the side of the mast by a shroud high up. Sometimes, if a halyard gets behind a shroud it has no alternative but to pull on an angle. But I'm sure you checked that out.

Its also possible that the main halyard has slipped off the sheave at the masthead and therefore isn't running true. The halyard for the mainsail should exit the aft end of the masthead, and pretty much dead center. It could be off a little if the sheaves are not dead center but that shouldn't make a whole lot of difference in hoisting the main if its only a little off.

Of course the jib halyard should exit the masthead at its forward end.

I'm only putting this stuff up here so you can just double check these possibilities. If I can think of anything else that could pull the main halyard off center I'll post again.

[hmeyrick]

The others above are correct in that generally the main is cleated off on the stb side: if this causes the halliard to jam, and it appears to be off-center, I am wondering if maybe your main halliard is rigged through your jib sheave at the masthead, and vice-versa.

This was your first time out? Congratulations!

[doubleb]

nothing is in a bind. all the lines are free. down haul & Boom vang loose. Both lines operate freely when not attached. I am ruling out sheave missalignment.
Warren there are 2 lines running out of the top of the mast. one is in fact just about dead center fed front to back.. I will ass-u-me that it is for the main.
the other line runs starboard of that. fed back to front. Jib
There is a winch on the port side.
In order to cleat off either of the lines. If the main cleats to starboard, jib cleat to port. the lines will cross on the front of the mast?
Assmuming main is raised from the front of the mast. and the jib from the back. so to say.
I will have to go to the boat next weekend and have another look. I will try to get some pics.

Thanks all.
I will get back with my findings


B.B.

[Sea Owl]

BB;

As a CD25 owner, assuming you are not a 25D, the two sheaves at the top of my mast are equidistant from the center line. I have original equipment in terms of mast, etc., but maybe you don't.

In any case, I would find it hard to believe that the sheave could be far enough off line to cause the main to bind. Stranger things have happened however!

I run my main halyard through the starboard sheave, and the jib halyard through the port sheave, and cleat off accordingly with no problem.

You claim to be a 'newbee', but it appears to me you have already been taught what I consider one of the Great Lessons I was taught about sailing and life in general: if you have to force it, stop. Something is wrong! That will stand you in good stead on a lot of things!

Dumb questions: Have you lubricated your track for the mainsail cars? Are the cars all properly attached to the mainsail?

The reefing line comment (make sure they are loose) has bit me more than once....

Do you have lazy jacks? If so, are the battens catching on them? How about the topping lift?

Wish you all the best in working this out!

[Amgine]

I agree with Sea Owl: You need to know how your masthead is arranged.

In most mastheads for CDs there will be a pair of sheaves, each slightly offset from the centerline. Occasionally you'll find a third sheave, and how that is arranged will be unique to the boat although often they're used for the spinaker or rove with a messenger line so a new halyard can be run up quickly in an emergency.

What I'd really like to know is how you shifted the halyards without going up the mast.

[Gary M]

Hey Brian and Shane,

If you still haven't solved the issue, I would suggest tying a long piece of light line to the main shackle and pull it to the top of the mast with your main halyard. (don't hoist the sail, just the line.)

You could even try hoisting the line with one person holding the shackle end at the rear of the boat and the other holding the cleat end at the bow. This way the line can not snag a thing.

If it doesn't make it to the top the sail is not your problem, its the halyard getting caught on something.

Make sure the shackle end doesn't take a wrap around your back stay.

Once you have eliminated the halyard as a problem hoist the sail.

Make sure all lines are loose including the main sheet and the boom down haul if your 25 has one.

It's got to go all the way up if the halyard took the line all the way up!

Good Luck

[doubleb]

Well Amgine. to move the lines. my clevises are tie on. I just untied main & jib and switched them.

Sea owl as far as lube, No I have not lubricated anything yet. I am going to try that next weekend, as far as the the lines being off set.
With what I can see from 27' away even with binoculars the starboard sheave is about 2" from center. ( best guess)
the port side is just about dead on center, thats compared to starboard. Its not a case of one on either side of the main track. One is more centered than the other.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but some thing just is not right. as I said I will look real hard next week. Or try to take a trip up the mast. To me it still makes more sense to lift the main with a straight lift. and the jib will handle a slight offset better giving how each is attached.

Thanks for all the input.

I hate to sound dumb. but it has to be something simple.
B.B.

[Amgine]

I see, you didn't shift them at all aloft, just switched which was used for which. This surprised me because normally the main uses a headboard shackle while the jib often uses a different shackle.

Something is, as you say, not right if one halyard (formerly main now jib halyard) will hoist well in one direction but not the other. If the sheaves are not lining up with the track at the masthead, or if one is and the other is far out, then it seems to me you have a masthead problem serious enough that you should not go aloft on that mast. It may be something simple, but there's a chance it isn't and you should not risk your life to find out which it is.

IIRC the CD 25 is designed to be easily stepped on the trailer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to drop the mast and take a look. Best of luck, and hope to hear what is going on next week!

[Sea Owl]

BB;

After some thought, I was taken back two years to when I first bought my boat. The mast was already up, so after minimal prep, she was plopped in the water and I tried to go sailing.

It was an interesting trip, best told over a cold drink. What came to mind however, was how the halyards are run on a CD25 at the mast head, and an issue I had that first year (I had not run the halyards then) in that I had halyards I thought were 'hard' to raise.

The stays (fore and back) as many of you know, run to clevis pins in the top of the mast (I am sure there is a term for the piece at the top - I don't think the traditional nautical term of 'truck' applies). When I took my mast down at the end of that season, I found that one of the halyards, when coming off of the sheave to go down to the mainsail, was run OUTSIDE of the stay clevis pin, rather than INSIDE. This was causing the halyard to rub/bind on the clevis pin, and made it harder to adjust.

Also had the thought when you talked about 'switching' halyards - the main halyard is run front (forward) to back (aft) while the jib halyard in aft to forward. That is, the device you use to attach the halyard to the sail is on the forward side of the mast for the jib, and the aft side of the mast for the main. If you fixed your problem by switching halyards the way you describe, it sounds like whoever ran both of your halyards the same way through the sheaves. Have I confused everyone yet?

Unless both halyards are run the same direction through the sheaves, i.e. the end you cleat coming out on the same side of the mast, I don't see how else you could do what you did to 'switch' halyards, without wrapping at least one of them about the mast somehow.

Run in the traditional way, the halyard should thus go from the mainsail, up to the sheaves, through the starboard sheave, and down the forward side of the mast to your cleat. The jib halyard should go from the sail, up to the sheaves, through the port sheave, and down the aft side of the mast to your cleat.

My 'spinnaker' or 'spare jib halyard' goes up to a block on a bail on the front edge of the mast top, and down to a cleat on the port side, and does not go through a sheave in the masthead.

Sorry to be long winded, but had to get my thoughts out...

Another two cents worth!