RSVP - Sailing under jib alone?

[Ed Burger]

I recently read a letter in Practical Sailor written by a marine surveyor who cautioned anyone sailing under jib alone. The surveyor's letter described a few instances of masts collapsing forward and further described additional cautions if your mast was stepped on the deck of your boat (as is the case with most smaller CD's) or if your boat was not rigged with forward lower stays (true I believe of the later model CD's). I also recall that the surveyor indicated that the sailing conditions were ordinary and the boats were well known and well built but did not mention any manufacturers by name (for obvious reasons).

I sail a 1981 CD22 and on some lazy days I'll just sail with the jib (130 genoa), particularly when I'm by myself and there may be a more of a breeze than I care to raise and tend to a reefed main and jib. She sails and points just fine under the jib alone and if the breeze stiffens to be too much I just cranck up the old 9.9hp iron genoa and go back to the slip.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this surveyor's observation or any recommendations regarding my sailing habits (good or bad).


I would also like to thank and commend those responsible for this web site. It's first class.

Ed Burger
CD22
We sail out of Tom's River, New Jersey



eburger@dplus.net

[Dana Arenius]

Ed,

I personally don't think you have anything to worry about. I sail exactly the same way as you do. When the wind really picks up the boat is alot easier to handle with just the foresail. It has excellent balance and drives to windward just fine without any indications of excess rig loading. In fact, I think some of the CD manuals suggest foresail only.

There are too many other factors to consider besides the forward lower shroud and if the main is up. Questions such as:

1. Is the boat a high aspect ratio rig?
2. Is it a fractional rig? The rig material and strength/thickness?
3. Is it designed with a "bendable mast", i.e. adjustable backstay?
4. Etc. , Etc. Etc.

All these things will affect the degree of mast deflection due to foresail loading and the amount of stress the mast was subject to under sail. In general theory, what he says is true...that the foresail loads tend to pull the mast forward and downward at the top of the mast. This leads to downward mast compression at the mast base and bowing at the mast middle toward aft. The forward lower shroud is designed to counter the bowing effect but mast compression would still be there. My point is that compression is always there with or without the main. I would expect it to be greater when the main was also used.

Dana



D_Arenius@juno.com

[Chris Hill]

Ed/Dana:

I recently purchased an '84 Typhoon and am very much a greenhorn. But last weekend when I went out in some windy conditions, I sailed under jib alone and found the boat performed horribly. I couldn't get closer to about 80 deg. to the wind and the boat had terrible leeward helm. I ended up taking the jib down & using my motor to get back to the dock. Am I doing something wrong here?
By the way Ed, I also sail out of Toms River, NJ. I'll keep an eye out for you!

Happy sailing to all.



Robert_Ayers@msn.com

[Dana Arenius]

Chris,

It may be a problem using only the jib with the Typhoon. I had a Seasprite 23 which also had a fractional rig. The smaller jib was great for quick tacks but most of the driving power came from the main. It worked the best with a reefed main and even a storm tri-sail inlieu of the jib. On my 23, the working jib was only 92 sq ft out of a total of 250. Perhaps a Ty owner here on the site might give you a better feel of what to expect.

Dana



D_Arenius@juno.com

[Jon F. Larson]

Ed,

I sailed my CD22 as you do and found that she sailed and tacked just fine under jib alone. I also do that with my current (15 years!) CD30, including one really gusty day on Great South Bay back on Long Island, NY when the gusts were measured at over 50mph and I sailed PERI with just her full yankee, it was rail down and 7 knots and nothing collapsed. I'll admit we did scoot back into the National Seashore Marina at Watch Hill....was fortunate to get a berth that was upwind!

Our friends who accompanied us down there with their CD30 sailed theirs with just the staysail. They also had no problems in that stuff, but I personally worry about that in the CD30 as there is no lowers to balance the staysail stay. The surveyor who did the insurance survey when PERI was shipped out here to the west coast recommended adding running back stays, and the one C30 that I've seen set up for and actually doing real blue water cruising had indeed added running back stays.

I did start worrying about the standing rigging, however, and this season I had PERI completely rerigged with all new standing rigging, in this area with the usual afternoon hurricanes that is recommended every 10 years, that was the only collapse that I worried about.


Jon Larson
CD30 PERI
San Francisco Bay

I recently read a letter in Practical Sailor written by a marine surveyor who cautioned anyone sailing under jib alone. The surveyor's letter described a few instances of masts collapsing forward and further described additional cautions if your mast was stepped on the deck of your boat (as is the case with most smaller CD's) or if your boat was not rigged with forward lower stays (true I believe of the later model CD's). I also recall that the surveyor indicated that the sailing conditions were ordinary and the boats were well known and well built but did not mention any manufacturers by name (for obvious reasons).

I sail a 1981 CD22 and on some lazy days I'll just sail with the jib (130 genoa), particularly when I'm by myself and there may be a more of a breeze than I care to raise and tend to a reefed main and jib. She sails and points just fine under the jib alone and if the breeze stiffens to be too much I just cranck up the old 9.9hp iron genoa and go back to the slip.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this surveyor's observation or any recommendations regarding my sailing habits (good or bad).


I would also like to thank and commend those responsible for this web site. It's first class.

Ed Burger
CD22
We sail out of Tom's River, New Jersey

jon9@ix.netcom.com

[Dan DeSena]

80 degrees? thats good!! we have the same problem. we tried using only the main and that created a wicked weather helm...... so the solution for our boat is to reef the main. this, alone, works fairly well.




solstice@maine.rr.com

[Catherine Monaghan]

Ed,

I too saw the article in Practical Sailor regarding the mast collapses while sailing under jib alone. It made me wonder if it was sailing under jib alone that caused the collapse or that in combination with some other failure.

This winter the mast broke at the spreaders on a boat that was stored in the yard with its mast up. As you may have guessed, this also reeked havoc on the neighboring boats since the mast had to fall and bounce somewhere.

Upon walking about that boat, I noticed that the bowsprit looked in pretty awful shape. It had also snapped. The wood was suffering from rot. The bobstay that connected the bowsprit to the hull snapped too. But what snapped first? I think it was the bowsprit. The rotten wood of the bowsprit snapped under the pressure exerted by the headstay probably during a winter storm, and when it went everything else followed. It only takes the failure of a simple little screw to cause a major disaster.

I think a properly rigged boat should be able to handle sailing under jib alone. By proper I mean that the rig should be in proper working order as well as properly stayed -- this also includes proper stay and shroud tension. Masts and their fittings should be inspected annually. Fittings should be inspected closely, with a magnifying glass if you've got one, for signs of metal fatigue and anything that's suspect should be replaced.

Keep your rig in good condition and it shouldn't fail. If you've got a wooden bowsprit, don't forget to inspect it and its fittings too. Don't let the wood rot or your boat will wind up like the one mentioned above.

catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay

I recently read a letter in Practical Sailor written by a marine surveyor who cautioned anyone sailing under jib alone. The surveyor's letter described a few instances of masts collapsing forward and further described additional cautions if your mast was stepped on the deck of your boat (as is the case with most smaller CD's) or if your boat was not rigged with forward lower stays (true I believe of the later model CD's). I also recall that the surveyor indicated that the sailing conditions were ordinary and the boats were well known and well built but did not mention any manufacturers by name (for obvious reasons).

I sail a 1981 CD22 and on some lazy days I'll just sail with the jib (130 genoa), particularly when I'm by myself and there may be a more of a breeze than I care to raise and tend to a reefed main and jib. She sails and points just fine under the jib alone and if the breeze stiffens to be too much I just cranck up the old 9.9hp iron genoa and go back to the slip.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this surveyor's observation or any recommendations regarding my sailing habits (good or bad).


I would also like to thank and commend those responsible for this web site. It's first class.

Ed Burger
CD22
We sail out of Tom's River, New Jersey

catherine_monaghan@merck.com

[Jon F. Larson]

Ed, Catherine,

Catherine is right on, unmaintained stuff fails. I had all standing rigging replaced on PERI this year.

I didn't see the Practical Sailor article...was the boat with the collapsed mast a Cape Dory? Not all boats are built like these, I had a dock neighbor out here who collapsed two masts on a Catalina 28, his was a single digit hull number. The third mast is better stayed and has stayed up....design has a lot to do with a mast staying pointing up and Catalina shaved the first designs for that Catalina 28 a little too light for conditions out here. As for the boat in the article, was it a fractional rig?, modern bendy rig? Lots of variables that could cause one to use a boat differently.

Anybody who reads these postings knows that I have always sailed my three (serially!) Cape Dory's under jib alone when things really started whistling around....and so far, at least, everything is still standing!

Jon Larson
Cape Dory 30 PERI
San Francisco Bay

Ed,

I too saw the article in Practical Sailor regarding the mast collapses while sailing under jib alone. It made me wonder if it was sailing under jib alone that caused the collapse or that in combination with some other failure.

This winter the mast broke at the spreaders on a boat that was stored in the yard with its mast up. As you may have guessed, this also reeked havoc on the neighboring boats since the mast had to fall and bounce somewhere.

Upon walking about that boat, I noticed that the bowsprit looked in pretty awful shape. It had also snapped. The wood was suffering from rot. The bobstay that connected the bowsprit to the hull snapped too. But what snapped first? I think it was the bowsprit. The rotten wood of the bowsprit snapped under the pressure exerted by the headstay probably during a winter storm, and when it went everything else followed. It only takes the failure of a simple little screw to cause a major disaster.

I think a properly rigged boat should be able to handle sailing under jib alone. By proper I mean that the rig should be in proper working order as well as properly stayed -- this also includes proper stay and shroud tension. Masts and their fittings should be inspected annually. Fittings should be inspected closely, with a magnifying glass if you've got one, for signs of metal fatigue and anything that's suspect should be replaced.

Keep your rig in good condition and it shouldn't fail. If you've got a wooden bowsprit, don't forget to inspect it and its fittings too. Don't let the wood rot or your boat will wind up like the one mentioned above.

catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay

I recently read a letter in Practical Sailor written by a marine surveyor who cautioned anyone sailing under jib alone. The surveyor's letter described a few instances of masts collapsing forward and further described additional cautions if your mast was stepped on the deck of your boat (as is the case with most smaller CD's) or if your boat was not rigged with forward lower stays (true I believe of the later model CD's). I also recall that the surveyor indicated that the sailing conditions were ordinary and the boats were well known and well built but did not mention any manufacturers by name (for obvious reasons).

I sail a 1981 CD22 and on some lazy days I'll just sail with the jib (130 genoa), particularly when I'm by myself and there may be a more of a breeze than I care to raise and tend to a reefed main and jib. She sails and points just fine under the jib alone and if the breeze stiffens to be too much I just cranck up the old 9.9hp iron genoa and go back to the slip.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this surveyor's observation or any recommendations regarding my sailing habits (good or bad).


I would also like to thank and commend those responsible for this web site. It's first class.

Ed Burger
CD22
We sail out of Tom's River, New Jersey

jon9@ix.netcom.com

[Neil Gordon]

I find that sailing with genoa only on my CD28 I have lots of lee helm.
Sailing with the main only, I can point a lot higher. While she sails
fine under just the genoa, I prefer the control of main only.


Neil



103355.34@compuserve.com